Bongo Heracles
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Technically illegal to ride on public land
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Oct 18, 2022 19:27:47 GMT
I suspect there are probably a few irate YouTube videos being quietly taken down now.
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Post by Vandelay on Oct 18, 2022 20:02:44 GMT
Yeah, ok, that doesn't sound quite so bad, considering how much time she likely was going to be required to put into it. If she were intrinsically linked to the character than I could see a 6-figure amount being reasonable, but that is not the case.
I would still say that she obviously has put work into the creation of the character and that is an important part of the draw of the series. She could perhaps received a bit more than what it sounds like the actual offer was, but seems like an ok starting point for negotiation. I would guess they offered it, she played hardball with a crazy amount and they said see you later.
That doesn't detract from the fact that outside of the big names (Troy Baker, Linda Bailey, etc), voice artists aren't given the respect they deserve in gaming. That is true for most professions in gaming though.
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Post by JuniorFE on Oct 18, 2022 20:09:03 GMT
She could perhaps received a bit more than what it sounds like the actual offer was, but seems like an ok starting point for negotiation. I would guess they offered it, she played hardball with a crazy amount and they said see you later. According to Bloomberg, that's pretty much exactly what happened: We're in "he said, she said" mode (Ed: kind of, there's more corroborating the Bloomberg story than Taylor's side) until and unless documents are released (which could be tricky with NDAs and such, of course) but it does come from a reputable source, at least... www.bnnbloomberg.ca/a-tense-pay-dispute-overshadows-nintendo-s-upcoming-bayonetta-3-1.1834329 |
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Post by Jambowayoh on Oct 18, 2022 23:03:13 GMT
This really has been a case of waiting for both sides of the conversation. Makes the original videos she filmed seem particularly unhinged.
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Ulythium
Full Member
Lily-livered
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Post by Ulythium on Oct 18, 2022 23:12:44 GMT
I was mildly scandalised for Taylor to begin with, but these latest developments cast her original statements in a pretty bad light.
Schreier doesn't usually put his name to something unless he's sure of himself, so I'm inclined to believe him at this juncture.
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Post by Jambowayoh on Oct 18, 2022 23:55:10 GMT
I really should have twigged when she referred to Bayonetta as a franchise that has made over $450 million which is a big WTF, because that game series is niche at best. No way has it had that many sales.
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Post by Danno on Oct 19, 2022 0:06:10 GMT
This any good?
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Post by Jambowayoh on Oct 19, 2022 0:12:20 GMT
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Post by Vandelay on Oct 19, 2022 7:16:35 GMT
I really should have twigged when she referred to Bayonetta as a franchise that has made over $450 million which is a big WTF, because that game series is niche at best. No way has it had that many sales. I checked to see the sales on Bayonetta 2. Obviously, with the original release being on Wii U, it didn't do very well. 300,000 in first 9 weeks is the only number mentioned on the Wikipedia, but can't imagine total sales being much more than that. On Switch though, it broke the million mark. Bayonetta 1, which was on more platforms, sold 2 million on just the PS3 and 360, so I wouldn't be surprised if sold another million on Nintendo systems (these numbers are just Wikipedia, so you might be able to get more up to date elsewhere). It isn't doing AAA numbers, but I would say it is a little more than a niche game. It is certainly Platinum's biggest game. 450 million seems like an over the top estimate. I could see it being worth 100-200 million though, after you include merchandise. |
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Post by dfunked on Oct 19, 2022 7:17:33 GMT
Jambowayoh - yeah, that number jumped out as a bit of a WTF. That'd be 7 million+ sales of the series at $60, which simply hasn't happened.
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Post by uiruki on Oct 19, 2022 7:19:27 GMT
The first game massively overshipped so a lot of those sales would have been at lower prices too. I remember it dropping in price pretty much straight away.
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Bongo Heracles
Junior Member
Technically illegal to ride on public land
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Oct 19, 2022 7:27:01 GMT
She was a fairly popular, paid DLC character in smash which helped shift amibos, other merch and the old games.
They might be folding in the revenue from that.
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Post by Vandelay on Oct 19, 2022 7:35:12 GMT
She was a fairly popular, paid DLC character in smash which helped shift amibos, other merch and the old games. They might be folding in the revenue from that. I could imagine the merchandise for the series doing very well. Action figures, statues, mangas, etc likely would all do well with a group of the fanbase and I expect they made all those things. The Switch now has a really solid install base, so I could see the third game doing better than the previous games. |
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Post by dfunked on Oct 19, 2022 7:49:36 GMT
Body pillows...
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Tuffty
Junior Member
Posts: 3,645
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Post by Tuffty on Oct 19, 2022 13:51:54 GMT
It's one thing to make people aware of the situation as Hellena did, but it's the fact she went on further to say that you should boycott the game and that Jennifer Hale isn't and never will be Bayonetta just rubbed me up the wrong way initially, given that she said she was speaking out in solidarity for voice actors by coming out with this. With al the talk she made for people to boycott the game and what have you, it just enabled people to target Hale directly and the devs too creating a holy messy situation. If there's any positive out of the news story it's that people believe that VA's aren't getting paid enough for the work they do.
Does make me laugh to say Hellena deserves the 6 figure sum as she's the voice for a hugely successful game series. As someone that played Bayonetta for the 360, I never heard any news that Bayo 1 or 2 was massively successful to the level these people claim.
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Post by Jambowayoh on Oct 19, 2022 13:56:00 GMT
It wasn't anywhere near the level to request a six figure sum, let alone residuals.
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Post by Vandelay on Oct 19, 2022 14:26:58 GMT
To push back against that a little bit (although, not massively, as it is too much), the games have made around $60-70 million from game sales. A 6-figure amount is at least around 0.15% of that.
In those terms, it doesn't seem that mad.
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Post by JuniorFE on Oct 19, 2022 14:35:02 GMT
Maybe, but if you pay her that much you'll have to start paying more prolific actors in the millions... And while I'm all for VAs in general being more appreciated and better paid, it's a bit too big of a jump, even for me (added) let alone the people that actually decided the current rates  Even so, though, about the only VAs I'd expect to have a case to be paid in six figures and residuals would be those that essentially did the work of actors (mocap, appearance etc) along with providing the voice. Even if the underpaying of voiceover work was corrected tomorrow (and Taylor hadn't already torched bridges), I still doubt they'd be willing to pay her that much, even if only because, at the end of the day, it's very rarely a character's voice that sells a game. You wouldn't see a headline for Bayo 3 advertising the VA like you'd see a headline for a Thor movie advertising Hemsworth, for instance... Edit: and of course, painting a target on Hale's back, calling for boycotts and saying she "wanted to leave it all behind" the moment somebody came out with details contrary to what she was saying was pretty much entirely the wrong way to go about it, but I've already talked at length about my opinion on her methods, no reason to bore you all with it again |
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Post by Aunt Alison on Oct 19, 2022 17:04:17 GMT
Funnily enough, the only names I ever really pay attention to in the credits are the voice actors. Ignore the rest, then suddently tune in for that bit. And the logos because IT'S NEARLY OVER
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2022 17:48:16 GMT
Yeah, same. I always check to see who voiced who, have no idea who animated what though.
Apart from superstar directors/producers like your Kojimas or Howards (Miyamoto, Naka, etc), I couldn't really tell you who makes games.
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Post by JuniorFE on Oct 19, 2022 18:03:13 GMT
Okay, fair, neither can I, but that's the credits, you've already bought the game at that point Before release though, how many times has a VA's name specifically (obviously the voices themselves do add to a good first impression) been what pushed you to purchase a game? Again, maybe I'm the odd one, but I can't remember the last time prerelase material has sent me looking up voice actors... After I've played the game I might look up the ones that left a mark, sure, but I've never gone "Ooh, Troy Baker voices X character in this, might be a game to watch then" for instance |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2022 18:05:26 GMT
See, I think if Troy Baker had been replaced by say a Yuri Lowenthal or someone in The Last of Us 2, there would be an outrage.
But then again people were outraged about that game anyway.
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Post by JuniorFE on Oct 19, 2022 18:12:11 GMT
There might be, but somehow I doubt there would be too many who wouldn't purchase the game just because of that, especially if the replacement was amicable/no drama involved.
Or rather, I should say that those for whom the change alone was the make-or-break point wouldn't also be the ones brandishing pitchforks. The majority of them would likely just cancel the preorder and move on.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2022 18:15:25 GMT
You must not be very familiar with Naughty Dog fans.
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Post by JuniorFE on Oct 19, 2022 18:21:50 GMT
In any case, the point I was originally trying to make (well, one of them and a minor one at that) was that VAs in games are rarely used as a selling point in advertising the way a famous actor or director would be for a film or TV series. Obviously fans can get attached to certain VAs, and even not buy the game if they're replaced (or buy a game just because said VA is in it) and I'm not going to tell anyone they're wrong for doing so, it's just not what I do.
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Post by JuniorFE on Oct 19, 2022 18:24:20 GMT
You must not be very familiar with Naughty Dog fans. Maybe, but I am familiar with humanity as a whole. We can be pretty big idiots sometimes. Often. Okay, maybe all the time, since *gestures broadly at the past... millennium or so* (I wrote my previous post before seeing this one of yours btw, hence the more general reply  ) |
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Derblington
Junior Member
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Post by Derblington on Oct 19, 2022 18:28:02 GMT
I wonder if anyone even really knew her name before she made the tweet.
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Post by Aunt Alison on Oct 19, 2022 18:29:10 GMT
I think if publishers decided to cultivate that kind of interest in voice actors and sticking them in the promotional stuff, people would start to care. Same with devs. I also think they really don't want to do that because they'd have to pay them more
There are big names that people pay attention to and if Kojima's name is linked to something, people take notice. I'm sure there's plenty of people who've consistently worked on great games that we've never heard of. There are quite a few well known Japanese developers
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Post by JuniorFE on Oct 19, 2022 18:37:40 GMT
That's pretty much it, if publishers start elevating voice actors' status to that of movie/TV actors or (to use a different sector) footballers, paychecks like what Taylor asked for would probably become commonplace eventually rather than the exception, and they're not exactly keen on that idea...
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Post by drhickman1983 on Oct 19, 2022 18:58:01 GMT
Kojima actually did a good job at bringing the voice actors in his games to attention.
I know he's all gone Hollywood in recent years and doesn't really use unknown VAs for main roles anymore, but I liked in Metal Gear how the character name was subtitled with the VA name.
It's probably another reason why I actually knew who voiced Snake. I'd have probably looked it up at some point, maybe.
Even as I write that, I'm realising that there's a few games where the voice acting has made a huge impact and I've got no idea who the VA is, so maybe I wouldn't have looked it up. Or I'd look it up then forget.
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