|
|
Post by drhickman1983 on Oct 18, 2022 8:27:33 GMT
Fair enough
In which case I'm still mostly thinking it was a low offer because she's a pain to work with.
(And hey, I've worked in the creative freelance world many years ago as a 2D animator, so I have some understanding there.
I spent more time between jobs then I did working. Mainly because I *hate* networking and job searching, which is the majority of the job, especially when not established).
|
|
|
|
Post by dangerousdave on Oct 18, 2022 8:31:03 GMT
It could be! I wouldn't jump to any conclusions, but it certainly seems like they wanted rid of her, but were obligated to make her an offer.
|
|
Bongo Heracles
Junior Member
Technically illegal to ride on public land
Posts: 4,661
|
Post by Bongo Heracles on Oct 18, 2022 8:31:16 GMT
It’s not, it’s standard. There’s a polygon article that breaks it down. The argument is that because the franchise is so successful, she should be paid more. Yes, thats exactly the point im making, thanks for backing me up. This isnt a bog standard training video or some low tier production, she is the widely recognisable voice for the main character of a tentpole franchise. A further example to demonstrate mine and derblingtons excellent point; Martin Lewis. He charges 10k for VA. I know this for a fact. If a producer offered him 250p/h because 'its not low, its standard, we have broken it down', he would tell you to fuck off. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2022 8:34:39 GMT
It's possible she's hard to work with, it's also possible they want more eyes on a project and Hale might be able to provide that.
TBH i don't disagree with elstoof that she sounded a little unhinged by the third video, and by the fourth she was quoting scripture which we can AT BEST say is within character.
But if she's as low in demand as everyone is saying from her IMDB, I can also understand why this means so much to her.
|
|
Bongo Heracles
Junior Member
Technically illegal to ride on public land
Posts: 4,661
|
Post by Bongo Heracles on Oct 18, 2022 8:39:35 GMT
IMDB doesnt reflect commercials, corporate videos and all that caper, though. If it did David Mitchells IMDB would take up half the entire internet.
But, yeah, we dont know why they did it. Maybe they wanted Hale, maybe they didnt want her, maybe she is just an idiot but whatever the reason, that is indeed a number intended for her to choose to bugger off.
Or maybe it is their standard fee and people just do it for the exposure. We may never know.
|
|
|
|
Post by drhickman1983 on Oct 18, 2022 8:44:07 GMT
I dunno, I'm out of touch with the game buying public (well, with anyone), but I'm not sure Hale's involvement would really get much more publicity, as she's not a massive name outside fairly nerdy gamers.
So I'm not fully convinced that this was a decision designed to get publicity. (I mean, it has, but inadvertently and in a way they didn't intend).
And even then I don't think many gamers would buy a game because of her involvement.
If that had replaced with an actor who is reasonably famous outside of gaming, like when Kojima replaced Hayter with Sutherland in Metal Gear Solid, I'd consider that argument more.
Honestly though, calling for a boycott of a series because they seemingly didn't want to hire you is very unprofessional to say the least. She's not had much other voice acting work in the video game space over the past few years and can't see many hiring her now.
|
|
|
|
Post by drhickman1983 on Oct 18, 2022 8:48:10 GMT
(I'm largely indifferent to the whole thing, but still find myself writing fairly lengthy posts because I'm procrastinating at work.)
|
|
Bongo Heracles
Junior Member
Technically illegal to ride on public land
Posts: 4,661
|
Post by Bongo Heracles on Oct 18, 2022 8:50:55 GMT
With someone like that, youre buying a safe pair of hands. They may have expanded the cutscenes/amount of acting required and decided whatshername wasnt up to it and wanted someone who was. You never know, really. Ive seen people taken off projects because 'the vibes are off'.
As much as it sucks for her, I havent actually heard anything yet that would make me want to boycott it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2022 8:57:20 GMT
I don't know, I remember Hale as Black Cat in the Spider-Man cartoon, Naomi Hunter in Metal Gear Solid, everyone knows her as Commander Sheperd in Mass Effect and most recently as Rivet in Ratchet & Clank.
You could say she doesn't hold the same cache as Keifer Sutherland, and usually you'd be right. But considering people were up in arms about Hayter's removal, that's more an argument FOR Taylor rather than against. An actor formed a role that the audience grew to love, and now it's up to the individual to decide if they like the game or the voice/performer more.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jambowayoh on Oct 18, 2022 9:00:07 GMT
And the only reason Sutherland was chosen is because Kojima is starfucker, regardless of all the talk of Sutherland being able to give a 'different performance'. I mean I guess it was different seeing as he barely spoke as he cost so much money. That was definitely bullshit decision.
|
|
|
|
Post by drhickman1983 on Oct 18, 2022 9:04:20 GMT
People can decide, but I don't think is the further voice actors place to ask for boycott.
By all means, they can say they're disappointed to not be on the project, but telling people not to buy it is where I lost what sympathy I might have had.
Hayter certainly expressed his dissapointment, but he never told people to not buy MGSV, or criticised Sutherland for taking the role.
I also think Hayter is much more important to the role than Taylor was to hers, but that's just my subjective opinion.
With the exception of Mass Effect I can't really say any of Hale's performances have been amazing and memorable tbh. She's a safe pair of hands but not outstanding. Also my subjective opinion.
|
|
Bongo Heracles
Junior Member
Technically illegal to ride on public land
Posts: 4,661
|
Post by Bongo Heracles on Oct 18, 2022 9:04:29 GMT
One of the usual (and true) complaints is that actors dont really 'get' VA work, so a famous actor will be noticably worse than a jobber who has been doing it for years.
Sutherland, however, was absolutely righteous as Snake, holy shit. It was absolutely the right choice.
|
|
|
|
Post by rhaegyr on Oct 18, 2022 9:11:26 GMT
Where's the dislike button?
|
|
|
|
Post by Jambowayoh on Oct 18, 2022 9:54:58 GMT
Sutherland, however, was absolutely righteous as Snake, holy shit. It was absolutely the right choice. No, no, no, no, no. |
|
|
|
Post by JuniorFE on Oct 18, 2022 10:03:36 GMT
To echo an earlier point, I'm also not sure how many people buy a game for the voice actors in it. I'll get excited if I play the game and recognize a VA I like as I'm playing, sure, but when it comes to previews, I'm more concerned with gameplay, graphics, story and if the game itself looks interesting. The most I'll concern myself with the voices is whether or not they sound good/fitting, not who they belong to. Could just be me though.
As for the controversy itself, even if Taylor was a pure blameless saint (and she's not exactly coming across as that) I don't think calling for people to boycott the game will hurt the people she wants to hurt. Ultimately, the decision to hire or not hire her for the voice was probably made by a few bigwigs, and if the game flops or the studio gets bad rep because of this incident, chances are it won't be the bigwigs' paychecks that take the hit. It'll be the testers, designers, music composers... People that didn't actually have anything to do with the VA decision, basically.
If things happened as she said, and she was intentionally pushed out of the role with legitimately low offers (which I'm not saying is impossible and to my knowledge Platinum hasn't released any statements to the contrary), then by all means call the company out, express disappointment, anger etc. But the way she's doing it and what she's asking people to do ultimately not only hits the wrong people but might also jeopardize her career as well, if studios start viewing her as unprofessional and difficult to work with. It's just a mess all around...
|
|
Bongo Heracles
Junior Member
Technically illegal to ride on public land
Posts: 4,661
|
Post by Bongo Heracles on Oct 18, 2022 10:32:08 GMT
Sutherland, however, was absolutely righteous as Snake, holy shit. It was absolutely the right choice. No, no, no, no, no. I have never really understood the angst about it. Sutherland is great and, themetically, its a different character anyway. I dont get what the problem is. |
|
|
|
Post by rhaegyr on Oct 18, 2022 10:50:31 GMT
Don't agree Sutherland was great - he barely said a word during the whole thing. For a series as over the top and ridiculous as Metal Gear is his 'serious' voice didn't really fit with the tone of the rest of the game for me either.
Can only speak for myself but the original Metal Gear Solid was a high watermark in my youth for voice acting and Hayter was at the centre of that - he was Snake just as much as the writing and character design were. There's not many truly 'iconic' voices in gaming but I think Solid Snake was definitely one of them.
For it to change after a couple of decades just didn't make that much sense, especially when the 'different character' reasoning could've applied to MGS3.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jambowayoh on Oct 18, 2022 11:19:44 GMT
What Rhaegyr said. Especially the bit about MGS3 because it's also a different character. Kojima loves his famous people that was the only reason for the change.
|
|
Bongo Heracles
Junior Member
Technically illegal to ride on public land
Posts: 4,661
|
Post by Bongo Heracles on Oct 18, 2022 11:25:23 GMT
I don’t really buy the MGS3 thing because that was obviously a very different era of games, game production and games as art but wevs
|
|
|
|
Post by Jambowayoh on Oct 18, 2022 11:31:45 GMT
I don’t really buy the MGS3 thing because that was obviously a very different era of games, game production and games as art but wevs I don't really buy that either, games even in that era had celebrity voice actors. I don't think it's any secret that Kojima wants to make movies and since leaving Konami he's leaned heavily into having Hollywood actors in his games. If his cache was as big then as it is now he would have definitely had celeb voice actors back then. |
|
|
|
Post by Aunt Alison on Oct 18, 2022 11:47:50 GMT
Sutherland was too recognisable. It's distracting
Not sure why Hayter was any more important to MGS than Taylor was to Bayo though. Bayonetta's character is huge part of the appeal of that series and pretty iconic
That said, it's already a niche series and fans have been waiting forever for this, doubt there'll be much of a boycott. Given what's been said about her work history, or lack thereof, this sounds like her biggest and most noteworthy role. Not surprised she's upset and bitter about losing it. As an actor, it's likely to be what she'll be known for
|
|
|
|
Post by drhickman1983 on Oct 18, 2022 11:48:29 GMT
I didn't mind Sutherland as Snake, but it just seemed weird to have a fairly big actor and give him relatively little to do.
Getting Teal'c to play Kratos is a voice actor change I approve of.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jambowayoh on Oct 18, 2022 11:49:08 GMT
Isn't this funded by Nintendo though who are also not great at paying voice actors well.
|
|
|
|
Post by rhaegyr on Oct 18, 2022 11:52:21 GMT
Sutherland was too recognisable. It's distracting Not sure why Hayter was any more important to MGS than Taylor was to Bayo though. Bayonetta's character is huge part of the appeal of that series and pretty iconicThat said, it's already a niche series and fans have been waiting forever for this, doubt there'll be much of a boycott. Given what's been said about her work history, or lack thereof, this sounds like her biggest and most noteworthy role. Not surprised she's upset and bitter about losing it. As an actor, it's likely to be what she'll be known for I'd guess it's because MGS is a much more story/character focussed series than Bayonetta is with an absolute ton more dialogue and character work. Plus a ton of MGS' dialogue and story exposition was delivered via codec conversations. I've played both Bayonetta's multiple times and adore them mechanically but I'm not really fussed about the story or characters because in all honesty they aren't that good/well written. |
|
|
|
Post by drhickman1983 on Oct 18, 2022 11:59:51 GMT
Not sure why Hayter was any more important to MGS than Taylor was to Bayo though. Bayonetta's character is huge part of the appeal of that series and pretty iconic For me, it's the sheer amount of dialogue that Hayter had that makes a difference in embedding Hayters voice as Snake. Between the (sometimes too long) cut scenes and huge number of optional codec conversations (that I listened to all of) I grew best used to Hayter's voice. Also helps that Metal Gear actually told a story, even if it was ridiculous and far fetched. Bayonetta is a great fun game but I couldn't actually remember the story without looking it up, and the dialogue mostly exists as smart quips, so to me it just feels a bit interchangeable on who actually delivers them . |
|
|
|
Post by anthonyuk on Oct 18, 2022 12:01:37 GMT
A number of VO actors seem to have chipped in. Some saying main characters jobs take up to a 5 days of 4 hours sessions and pay can vary up to around £200 per hour.
Taylor herself, has said the previous game took 4, 4 hour sessions to record.
Not saying it's right, one one hand I wouldn't mind £200 per hour, but it does seem low for such a high profile game.
Regardless her "simply asking for a living wage" falls a little flat, as does mentioning how nurses have to go to food banks.
She doesn't exactly seem prolific either, with her previous VO role being the previous game.
Either way, from a professional standpoint she's effectively blacklisted herself. Breaking NDA's, openly bringing this to Twitter via video and then telling people to boycott the game. Almost like she's fully aware that she doesn't do anything else and was in some way going to be her cash cow.
Whatever your grievance or field, you just don't handle yourself this way. I can't see anyone wanting to work with her again, in some respects I don't blame them.
|
|
|
|
Post by elstoof on Oct 18, 2022 12:02:31 GMT
Bayonetta just sounds like any other middle aged conservative voter from the Home Counties
|
|
|
|
Post by Aunt Alison on Oct 18, 2022 12:12:35 GMT
@hickman @reggie In a sense, I'd say that makes her performance even more important. It's her character and style that people remember and her voice work is definitely a part of that. It's not as if Platinum are famous for creating memorable characters
|
|
|
|
Post by Aunt Alison on Oct 18, 2022 12:16:52 GMT
Almost like she's fully aware that she doesn't do anything else and was in some way going to be her cash cow. This was my feeling as well. But also as a professional actor, it's also likely to be her crowning achievement. She's no longer the voice of Bayonetta, she portrayed her in Bayonetta 1 and 2 |
|
|
|
Post by elstoof on Oct 18, 2022 12:33:01 GMT
Did she create the frequently exposed breasts and figure hugging leotards that the character is famous for
|
|
