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Post by Jambowayoh on Oct 22, 2021 8:44:59 GMT
This is pretty shit for Baldwin and also for the poor woman. Obviously he isn't culpable, not like John Landis was back in the day for the the Twilight Zone movie. I'm still amazed that film got released after that tragedy.
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Post by Reviewer on Oct 22, 2021 8:59:55 GMT
They don’t tend to use pretend guns and make the actors pretend they’re really firing because recoil is hard to fake, actors are also inclined to make the gun noises themselves which undermines the performance.
Even with blanks etc. they add in muzzle flash after.
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Dgzter
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Post by Dgzter on Oct 22, 2021 9:03:23 GMT
This is pretty shit for Baldwin and also for the poor woman. Obviously he isn't culpable, not like John Landis was back in the day for the the Twilight Zone movie. I'm still amazed that film got released after that tragedy. Was that the helicopter thing? I remember reading about that. Two really young kids died as well as another actor, I think. |
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Post by Jambowayoh on Oct 22, 2021 9:43:32 GMT
This is pretty shit for Baldwin and also for the poor woman. Obviously he isn't culpable, not like John Landis was back in the day for the the Twilight Zone movie. I'm still amazed that film got released after that tragedy. Was that the helicopter thing? I remember reading about that. Two really young kids died as well as another actor, I think. Yeah it was horrible. |
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Post by Nanocrystal on Oct 22, 2021 9:44:39 GMT
They don’t tend to use pretend guns and make the actors pretend they’re really firing because recoil is hard to fake, actors are also inclined to make the gun noises themselves which undermines the performance. Even with blanks etc. they add in muzzle flash after. An actor having to pretend. Imagine! |
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Solid-SCB-
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Post by Solid-SCB- on Oct 22, 2021 9:52:08 GMT
It's 2021. I've had to go away for a few days today, realised I'd forgotten my bank card on the train and have been saved by the fact I can literally get my phone out to pay for stuff. We're a very creative species.
I really don't think it's out of the realms of possibility for someone to invent a prop gun for films that doesn't potentially expel projectiles and kill people.
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cubby
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Post by cubby on Oct 22, 2021 9:59:27 GMT
It's 2021. I've had to go away for a few days today, realised I'd forgotten my bank card on the train and have been saved by the fact I can literally get my phone out to pay for stuff. We're a very creative species. I really don't think it's out of the realms of possibility for someone to invent a prop gun for films that doesn't potentially expel projectiles and kill people. They probably thought if it ain't broke... I mean it's very obviously broke now, so something will change. The Screen Actors Guild and all the other unions will no doubt make a big push for something to change now. |
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Rodderz
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Post by Rodderz on Oct 22, 2021 10:34:58 GMT
This is pretty shit for Baldwin and also for the poor woman. Obviously he isn't culpable, not like John Landis was back in the day for the the Twilight Zone movie. I'm still amazed that film got released after that tragedy. That Twilight Zone tragedy was absolutely horrific, gruesome and unbelievably sad. |
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geefe
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Post by geefe on Oct 22, 2021 10:45:39 GMT
Yeah blanks aren't this amazing tissue bullet. This is absolutely a prop department fuck up - AGAIN. Having fired guns, recoil IS hard to fake but you're telling me they can't just create something that has a pump when you fire it?
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Post by elstoof on Oct 22, 2021 10:53:10 GMT
Let’s not get too carried away, accidents happen and no one planned this. Stuntmen die or get injured set doing their job, theres no talk of CGI for every car chase or jumping off buildings
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Post by ryder35 on Oct 22, 2021 10:57:40 GMT
Interesting interview on Radio 5 with a gun expert who works on Films. He said that you never aim at anyone when filming (always at least 3 foot left or right and also that there is no way a blank could cause injury to 2 people as it would need to pass through the first person to hit the second. I guess maybe it could of ricochet?
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kal
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Post by kal on Oct 22, 2021 11:27:16 GMT
Yeah blanks aren't this amazing tissue bullet. This is absolutely a prop department fuck up - AGAIN. Having fired guns, recoil IS hard to fake but you're telling me they can't just create something that has a pump when you fire it? Nobody actually knows what has happened yet. |
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cubby
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Post by cubby on Oct 22, 2021 12:14:51 GMT
It is almost ironic timing that this happened as the IATSE (who represent the techs in theatre, TV and movies) have been threatening strike action recently over the hours that techs are having to work on projects. Stories of stagehands having to work in excess of 17 hours each day and other poor conditions, leading to mistakes and creating dangerous environments.
I wouldn't be surprised if that turned out to be an element in this event.
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Lukus
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Post by Lukus on Oct 22, 2021 12:51:06 GMT
EDIT - sorry, thought you'd gone all conspiracy nut for a moment, whereas you mean cos of fatigue and stress.
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Post by smoothpete on Oct 22, 2021 13:11:59 GMT
Yeah blanks aren't this amazing tissue bullet. This is absolutely a prop department fuck up - AGAIN. Having fired guns, recoil IS hard to fake but you're telling me they can't just create something that has a pump when you fire it? They do, airsoft guns. Airsoft guns (gas or electric ones) have a pretty lifelike reciprocating slide / bolt mechanism and they're used quite a lot. Plus they're significantly cheaper than the real thing (obviously). The recoil is fuck all though plus adding the effects afterwards is, I assume, costly and time consuming. It's not just the flash, smoke, shell casing, noise etc, it's the lighting effects on surrounding objects and shit like that. Not to mention that even with all this, unless it's done incredibly well, it still looks obviously fake. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2021 14:47:35 GMT
Interesting interview on Radio 5 with a gun expert who works on Films. He said that you never aim at anyone when filming (always at least 3 foot left or right and also that there is no way a blank could cause injury to 2 people as it would need to pass through the first person to hit the second. I guess maybe it could of ricochet? Tricky one this. Blanks that I've used are metal and look like a normal bullet except they are crimped at the end and have no projectile. You have a gas supressor on the end which is very noticeable and in my case bright red. That is designed to stop any gasses being discharged directly forward, but even with those we were told never to point them at anyone within 12'. I've never hears of a supressor flying off. I assume they dont use suppressors in the film industry (as they would look too fake I guess) so they really shouldn't be pointing direct at anyone, so if someone was pissing about with a gun with blanks (looking down the barrel while clicking the trigger would do it) then its feasible. I guess the other injury was from someone falling / jumping / being knocked back as a consequence. I cant see them both being from the "shot" as the gas wouldn't penetrate a person and go out the other side I dont think. |
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Post by 😎 on Oct 22, 2021 14:57:50 GMT
Mixed reports and here say, but I heard that the gun was accidentally loaded with live ammo, not a blank.
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cubby
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Post by cubby on Oct 22, 2021 15:02:59 GMT
Yeah I heard rumours of a live round, which is insane if true.
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Post by tonyferrino on Oct 22, 2021 15:04:19 GMT
Interesting interview on Radio 5 with a gun expert who works on Films. He said that you never aim at anyone when filming (always at least 3 foot left or right and also that there is no way a blank could cause injury to 2 people as it would need to pass through the first person to hit the second. I guess maybe it could of ricochet? Tricky one this. Blanks that I've used are metal and look like a normal bullet except they are crimped at the end and have no projectile. You have a gas supressor on the end which is very noticeable and in my case bright red. That is designed to stop any gasses being discharged directly forward, but even with those we were told never to point them at anyone within 12'. I've never hears of a supressor flying off. I assume they dont use suppressors in the film industry (as they would look too fake I guess) so they really shouldn't be pointing direct at anyone, so if someone was pissing about with a gun with blanks (looking down the barrel while clicking the trigger would do it) then its feasible. I guess the other injury was from someone falling / jumping / being knocked back as a consequence. I cant see them both being from the "shot" as the gas wouldn't penetrate a person and go out the other side I dont think. I think technically the attachment at the end (the BFA) is there to replicate the gas return that would usually come back from the force of the bullet, if a projectile was fired. This then pushes the internal parts and recocks the weapon (on an auto or semi auto weapon). You still get some material expelled around the side of the BFA, which is why you get black scorch marks on things that are too close. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2021 15:18:05 GMT
This is White Jesus making him pay for those Trump sketches.
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dogbot
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Post by dogbot on Oct 22, 2021 16:15:12 GMT
Holy shit, just read about this. Awful for everyone involved.
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deebs
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Post by deebs on Oct 22, 2021 16:56:16 GMT
I saw a video of the Twilight Zone accident. Horrifying.
As for criminal charges, it's unlikely anyone would face prosecution, but the prop master will likely see an end to his career.
I understand how things can get mixed up between takes, Baldwin may have picked up the wrong gun, or the check between takes was somehow skipped because the director wanted them to do another take immediately. There's a laundry list of reasons for it to go bad, and it's incredibly rare - especially when you take into account how many guns are used in how many movies for how many decades.
Tragic and thoroughly sickening for everyone concerned.
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Post by 😎 on Oct 22, 2021 17:45:56 GMT
It's apparently now confirmed that live ammo got loaded into the gun by mistake.
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Post by GigaChad Sigma. on Oct 22, 2021 18:04:57 GMT
What the hell is live ammo doing laying about? Must be multiple safety precautions that failed. There's people employed specifically to check this doesn't happen.
I'd have thought making movie guns unable to accept actual bullets would be a good idea?
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Post by Aunt Alison on Oct 22, 2021 18:09:07 GMT
I saw a video of the Twilight Zone accident. Horrifying. As for criminal charges, it's unlikely anyone would face prosecution, but the prop master will likely see an end to his career. I understand how things can get mixed up between takes, Baldwin may have picked up the wrong gun, or the check between takes was somehow skipped because the director wanted them to do another take immediately. There's a laundry list of reasons for it to go bad, and it's incredibly rare - especially when you take into account how many guns are used in how many movies for how many decades. Tragic and thoroughly sickening for everyone concerned. Why would there be guns firing real bullets on set? |
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Post by 😎 on Oct 22, 2021 18:11:43 GMT
As far as I know live ammo is sometimes used for shooting at inanimate objects like wood, where a squib might not give the right visual effect. But stuff like that should happen in a closed environment way off main set and not have it casually lying around the prop room.
Live ammo and real guns are also cheaper. So less scrupulous productions probably go “screw it, use the real thing”
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2021 18:13:47 GMT
The only thing I could think of, is there could be a scene where they shoot an object, like a glass bottle, a car door, a wall, window, etc. And maybe when loading the gun for that take, they put the wrong bullet in.
But it still doesn't explain why he was aiming at the director of photography or director, and how he killed more than one person. After the first person is hit, you'd think you'd drop the gun rather than shoot again.
Unless video games are real, he shot a gas tank and it exploded or something.
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cubby
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Post by cubby on Oct 22, 2021 18:21:39 GMT
So if the movie is a western the gun is going to be a six shooter. That could be one of the reasons for a live rounds *maybe*, if it was a close up shot and you would see the bullets in the chamber.
Complete speculation obviously.
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dogbot
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Post by dogbot on Oct 22, 2021 18:33:51 GMT
So if the movie is a western the gun is going to be a six shooter. That could be one of the reasons for a live rounds *maybe*, if it was a close up shot and you would see the bullets in the chamber. Complete speculation obviously. But surely you'd just use two different shots and cut them together? Whatever occurred, it's a massive breach of firearms and ammunition discipline. I was always taught that you should never point a loaded weapon - loaded with anything - at someone unless you intend to kill them. |
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Graxlar
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Post by Graxlar on Oct 22, 2021 18:37:11 GMT
The only thing I could think of, is there could be a scene where they shoot an object, like a glass bottle, a car door, a wall, window, etc. And maybe when loading the gun for that take, they put the wrong bullet in. But it still doesn't explain why he was aiming at the director of photography or director, and how he killed more than one person. After the first person is hit, you'd think you'd drop the gun rather than shoot again. Unless video games are real, he shot a gas tank and it exploded or something. Reports are it passed through her and hit him. |
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