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Post by sunjumper on Dec 5, 2023 8:46:09 GMT
Hey wunty, first of all thank you for your feedback as always. It's always nice to see what is working, and I think by now I am slowly getting the balance of the world right. I also now realise why not having your story take place in the real world is such a good idea. I spent a good amount of time looking up river freighters, their speed (The "Ruhig Blut" actually is very fast for a freighter) as well as looking up the route the party is taking. Which led to the Purgatory Gap, because everything is weirdly close to everything if you have a ship that can easily travel at 30km/h. I also now suddenly understand why rivers were so iportant for trade in the past... I will return to your story today or maybe tomorrow. Today might be a zero downtime day for me.
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wunty
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Post by wunty on Dec 5, 2023 9:30:10 GMT
I can tell you’ve been researching all this. It all lends such credence to your world which greatly assists engagement. You have an excellent balance to the extent it all flows so effortlessly.
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Post by sunjumper on Dec 5, 2023 11:23:25 GMT
Now I have to research how to turn the city of Solingen into a fortress. Is that even possible? Is it a metaphor? Next time I will go to another world again. ;_;
Back to your story though.
There are gaps, gaps in reality, well actually just in work and being on call is potentially really boring but not when you have something to read.
Part II - Final Cycle - Scene IV
The ivy continued growing and wrapping itself around his knees and thighs, so he felt now that the limbs were fast becoming an extension of himself. They were becoming truly his limbs. His legs. “ Creepy, in all sense of the word. I do wonder, very slightly, how the ivy grows around his legs without impeding his movement, shouldn’t it root him to the floor? Right now, I am editing that away by assuming that it grows as fast as he moves. Another possibility would be that it sprouted from within the prosthetics in the spaces within, which probably would make thematic sense?
I feel sorry for Denys, so far he has come over as nice. Sometimes he seemed threatening but that was never quite clear, it also made the impression that the “darker” things that happened through or because of Denys were more because of the nature of the world in which Adam is caught up.
Which apartment is Adam looking at exactly right now. I am slightly confused. It is not the one where Denys and his wife live… instead it is… which one? Again this is nothing major. Just a point were I as a slightly thick reader am trying to get the things sorted in my mind.
The shift towards the bar/gallery is brilliant!
“It was there, pride of place on the wall behind the two men, the shorter and - dare he say it - pudgier of the two was talking at length in a loud voice brimming and spilling with self importance. The other man, with the shocked cloud of static hair, smiled indulgently as he in turn looked to the other man, and then out at the assembled crowd. “ Great to see certain phenomena repeating themselves. Very cool.
“Not just myself, but Ivy, who I’m sure you’ll agree looks rapturous tonight. My wonderful daughter, the spitting image of her father in whose shadow we stand. Come up here sweetheart.” Oh nooo… I think I see where this is going and damn that would be a great reveal/plot twist, which fits perfectly well with the rest of the story.
Him devouring the remains of Denys is quite the picture. (brrrr) At the same time I wonder if this is “just horror” or also a deeper metaphor for all that happened.
““Is that not the way?” Adam asked Fletch. He shook his head. “Not for you.” He motioned forward, for Adam to turn. Apartment One was open. A cloying heat radiating from within. “There’s another way for you. It’s always been the way for you.” Adam turned back to the old man. “Thank you,” he said, still smiling. “You didn’t have to do this.” The old man’s face bore an expression that Adam couldn’t place. If forced, he would have said it was almost melancholic. “Neither did you,” he said. „
Oh boy… that was a brilliant ending to the chapter. Things are coming together in a fleshy, half rotten mockery to quicksilver. This chapter felt and read really well and makes you realise that the chasm isn’t in front of you anymore but that you’ve been in freefall together with Adam for quite a while. What looms in front is probably the floor…
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Post by wunty on Dec 5, 2023 12:16:09 GMT
sunjumper Thank you! Erm. Well... Yeah. So. The ivy is actually coming out of the prosthetics as well now. I'll add something in the edit to make that clearer! And yeah he left his apartment and it was as they passsed Denys' apartment that he turned and went to the gallery. It's essentially a portal to the gallery and this mimicks when earlier in the story he entered the apartment and appeared at the gallery with no recollection of how. Whether it's actually a portal, or it represents huge gaps in his memory / comprehension is up in the air at this stage though as essentially my aim by the time I'm done is that there will be an explanation (more than one in fact), of sorts, but I'm hoping it's going to be ambiguous enough so that you never really know for definite. If I pull it off. Which I probably won't first try! I also like to put stuff in there just for fun. Sometimes I like it when there's no real reason for something happening, so long as there's enough there that DOES have a reason. Sort of. I'm still winging it. I think I either have one slightly bigger scene that will be in two halves, or two more scenes to write. There is the slimmest of chances I will actually finish tonight. Which is nuts. Considering I'd abandoned it in the summer as a bad project that wasn't worth doing.
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Post by sunjumper on Dec 5, 2023 13:19:30 GMT
You are winging it like a pro.
I have an extreme dislike and aversion to bullshit "mystery box" types of narratives which are just empty gestures, mysteries upon mysteries with no core or also often enough with the plot points at the very end as a grand "reveal", that I as the audience should have known in the very beginning to give the first shit about what I was going to see/read/hear.
I love your story though. It all started very mysterious (and I started in the middle of the story anyway), however it runs with and from the perspective of the protagonist who is as clueless as the reader. It is a really fun and engaging ride. And even if you are just making it up as you go, discovering things as you write them, there is a feeling of a solid core in the story. Adam has a weird wibbly-wobbly poly-dimensional character arc. He isn't really static (like most asshole protagonists) but he is constantly moving forward while at the same time rushing back to his original self when ever he glimpses things he doesn't like. This has the advantage that while he is stuck in his personal purgatory we the readers keep learning new things and discovering bits and pieces of the background driving all this. Now this is a mystery that actually works and is pretty delicious. Like mutated flesh bees.
Even if, worst case scenario, the ending turns out to be a bit of a jumbled mess, this is a first draft, which has all the rights to be that way. Yours is already very solid, better then a lot of published crap. Once you have it all written out you can for the first time see everything what happened, with that knowledge you can rework the story to maximise the effect. You will then know what is deep stuff which you brilliantly seeded before you even knew where this was going, where you have to reinforce stuff and were you were just having fun with the setting. (Also what you can trim for the sake of flow or to remove possible paradoxes)
I for one am very happy that you didn't abandon this story but came back to it. It's been a great read and I will miss having new story updates to look forward to.
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Post by wunty on Dec 5, 2023 14:08:11 GMT
Brilliant man thanks so much. Guess I’ll see where it all ends up!!
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Post by wunty on Dec 5, 2023 21:46:21 GMT
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Post by sunjumper on Dec 6, 2023 16:50:13 GMT
No need to hurry, you already crushed it. You passed the 50k line in November you have your last scene. And you did that by re-starting a stalled project. Enjoy the victory lap. Your achievements are already remarkable. So, let’s have a look at the new chapter Part II - Final Cycle - Scene V „A long corridor stretched ahead of him, the heat already making him sweat. Perspiration ran down his forehead, his cheeks, his neck. It ran down his torso and his legs, the fuzzy bodies making their way up towards his midriff mingled with it and caused a tingling sensation. He was itchy, yet surpassed the urge to scratch. He didn’t wish to crush anything in error. “ Disturbing, claustrophobic, such a good way to convey the feeling of the situation. “Adam felt a pang of guilt at what had become of both Denys and Yana, feeling for some reason that it was his fault. He thought back to what he had done, how he had treated and spoken to them both, and wondered then if there was anything he could have done differently. Shrugging,” I mostly remember him being more kind of neutral towards them and at least politish when interacting with them. Even in his thought’s he was mostly annoyed by the noise they were making, What I really like is the juxtaposition of: “what could he have done better” with “Meh. Whatever.” Such a small thing that again shows Adam’s inner arseness. “He knew where he was. He was no longer in the apartment block. He was not longer in apartment one. He was in the Park.“ Ooooh… I also like how the story has reached a point where a guy going through a door into an apartment and that apartment turning into the park in front of the building/inside of a story makes perfect sense within the narrative. “There was something in the tennis courts. It’s colossal body sprawled across the remains of the centre net. A body crossed with black scars on bleached fur. Fur that sparkled under the dual light of the sun and the moon. Adam ducked further out of sight. “ Creepy, it all feels like a modern day dark fairy tale. If memory serves this scene mirrors the one with Ivy and the giant monster at the bottom of the Tower and Adam also needs to go up, like she did before. Nice. “None of that concerned her, her mind fixated only on finding her mother. A mother that had abandoned her without a further thought. A mother who must surely have understood that her daughter would come for her. That daughters always come for their mothers. Or fathers.“ Or fathers indeed… The colossal beast heard it. One eye snapped open, white then black as it rolled from where it lay upturned in the dark socket. It found Adam and burned with that terrible fire. It found it’s fangs, snarling. It found it’s claws, leaping.“ This is beautiful. “He timed it between slams, gripping tightly every time the tiger came up against the bars Coughs of glitter and saliva flew up past him. “ The glitter here is a very nice touch. “The Flats loomed over him, and beckoned him inside. He stood - made sure he still had his paintings - and entered, unable to resist or refuse the invitation. As Ivy climbed, she heard a new noise there, far below. The large and heavy door. It opened, then slammed shut. Someone was in here with her. Gone from above, now below. “He’s coming,” Violet whispered in her head. Ivy climbed.““ And you ended that on a suspenseful high note. Very, very nice wunty. You are doing very well.
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Post by wunty on Dec 6, 2023 18:54:00 GMT
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Post by wunty on Dec 6, 2023 18:54:30 GMT
sunjumper Thanks for that feedback as well!!!
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Post by Nanocrystal on Dec 6, 2023 21:32:35 GMT
Awesome wunty. Bookmarking it, looking forward to reading.
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Post by sunjumper on Dec 8, 2023 0:36:24 GMT
I thought I would've had tome to read the rest of the story of yours wunty. But work has left me utterly braindead and I am deeply confused that it's already Thursday... When did that happen?
I'm going to try to write a bit more today. I want to keep posting 1 to 3 updates a week. Hence I am going to follow my own advice and sit down and write a least one sentence and see how far I get.
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Post by sunjumper on Dec 9, 2023 0:14:20 GMT
This week was a dead week I did write a bit yesterday. I expect an update over the weekend.
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Post by sunjumper on Dec 9, 2023 20:33:38 GMT
Still mostly dead, but at least I can read again, was looking forward to the rest of your story wunty . My own update should be done by tomorrow. Part II - Final Cycle - Scene VI Hmm… more about young Adam and the kind of family he grew up in. Not the classic “bad” childhood but still one that would be extremely traumatic while not leaving any visible scars. This fits to the psychology he has been exhibiting until now. Good work. Also, there are the nightmares and ivy/Ivy. This casts some interesting and troubling shadows. “It had been his right to seek comfort elsewhere.” Adam, you entitled little twat… It follows his established personality and psychology though. The duality part is fascinating and it is dawning on me that Trent and Adam could be the same person which would make his little hissy fit during the exhibition especially amusing. ““”Violet,” he said, “why are you calling me here?” “This is the only place I can reach you.” Her voice was flat. Lifeless. “I’ve been trying to reach you before but I couldn’t”” Ominous. “Worried? Had he really? At one point he had been but then he had forgotten. He had forgotten about his own daughter because she’s not important“ O.O Now that’s a gut punch… ““I…can’t…I…thought you would…” The words were fading, losing coherency. Like a radio being tuned out. “You can, I need to go.” He began to move the receiver away, taking a final look at the door that would forever remain closed. “Daddy I lo -“ He placed the receiver down, just as Ivy rounded the corner of the stairwell and ran towards him, arms outstretched. Her face. „ Also a very good part. Has emotional, psychological and classic horror elements all at once. Damn… “There was no sound. The machine was too great, too loud. The blackened maelstrom of aged machinery would claim her now, and there was nothing he could do. This wasn’t on him. None of this was on him. “ After bravely batting a small girl, probably his own daughter down the stairwell… It’s almost funny in its absurdity. At same time, especially because we also get Ivy’s perspective it is horrifying. It is not the violence it is the callousness and the motivation behind Adam’s actions. This meshes well with the part earlier where he sees his art as his “real” child. Damn… Not much to say about the rest, the chapter came together extremely well. While a lot of the details still elude me the emotional facts are very clear. They work because they have been clearly established by the narrative so far. And that fall… Part II - Final Cycle - Scene VII “Which means I’m still alive, he thought, apropos to nothing. “ This is just a great line. “A shocked gasp, then the pressure on his body diminished, the weight on his legs going. A whump as she rolled on to the floor, then a frenzy of footsteps down the hall. “ Talking about something being effective because of all that came before. This bit is fantastic. I like how Violet is a clear presence in the first scene but is completely invisible. ““He’s gone, Adam. He doesn’t even see his daughter.”” Hmm… ““I’ve been so busy of late. I never do anything for her. She needs…something. For her. Would you take her? Her and Violet seem to get on so well. They could be sisters. So alike. Same age too.” And there’s Ivy as expected. “In front of her she had her favourite book (something about a tower in a forest) and her stuffed tiger.” Very cute, yet so very ominous. “Her card for him lay on the table but he vowed to open it when they returned […]” Such a bad decision… “He would miss this house when the fucking thing sold, but not that doorbell. It sounded like an old telephone. “ More and more things slowly coming together. I’m afraid where this is going. “He stopped a couple of times, feeling a little dizzy, wondering if he should have had that hair of the dog. “ Adam… “The Prime Minister met for talks with Minister Denys Ivanov […]” Oh no… “Thank you Adam. Thank you for doing this for Ivy.” Ouch… Epilogue - For Ivy “He was hers. For her. For Ivy.“ What a ride… You brought it all together in the end. The bits and pieces fit together and the whole story makes sense in the end. No empty mystery bullshit. I salute you for finishing your work and sharing it with us. I have a few thoughts on the story as a complete work, but they will have to wait for a while as the entire thing settles. For now I want you to know that it was a great read. I am impressed by the amount and quality of writing you manged to push out not only during November but also afterwards until you reached the finishing line. I can only imagine how much work and panic it must have been to take all of what you had written and tie it all together in a way that makes sense. The result is a very good story, with potential of growing even more during the edit. That was fantastic.
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Post by wunty on Dec 11, 2023 9:17:35 GMT
sunjumperYou been able to write anything? I'm eaglery awaiting the next part! I know all to well how it can get like though so hope you're doing okay and you'll get time to devote to your story soon. Thank you SO much for all the feedback. It has very much helped to keep me going through it all so I'm not honestly sure I wul dhave finished this thing otherwise. Yeah, the last part especially I was thinking "is this TOO contrived here, or is this too neat, or not neat enough" etc and it's, as you say, panic. I'm actually geuinely surprised that it DID slot together as much as it did but I think I still have a fair bit of work to do from here. I'll start the edit soon I think as I'm scared of leaving it too long. Thank you again.
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Post by sunjumper on Dec 11, 2023 13:11:02 GMT
wuntyDon't worry I'm still writing, there wasn't enough there yet that I would have posted it (this might be a dumb idea...), the last week was one unmitigated disaster for me but I'm feeling much better and even if I wasn't actively writing that much I had time to work on the next important character, do a lot of research, while I kept cursing having decided to write a story in the real world. I have also had some ideas about the structure of the story. I was planning something roughly in a 5 act structure with the tournament being act three. I now finally know what will roughly happen during the tournament and after. Regarding your story, tell me, if you feel so inclined, when you are going into revision. There are some thoughts about what could be done during the edit that I could share with you then. I haven't mentioned them so far because your story is already good as it is, it was important to see how it all comes together in this first version and it is very important to make clear that the first version can stand on its own merits. Now that you know what happened, you know the entire story you can take it and be sneaky and now cheat to make the story the best version it can be.
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Post by wunty on Dec 11, 2023 13:22:39 GMT
sunjumper Ah sorry to read that, hopefully this week goes a bit better for you! I'll be sure to check out your next part as soon as you post it. Re: my edit. Probably next week. I've gone back to a short story I began before Nano and I'm going to finsih that which will take me up to the weekend. Then I think I'm just going to get straight into this. So feel free to share away whenever you feel inclined. Any and all feedback will be much appreciated as otherwise it's just me and I don't know what the hell I'm doing half the time.
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Post by sunjumper on Dec 12, 2023 2:17:27 GMT
wuntyI will write my thought's for the edit in the coming days. It's nothing spectacular, really just reflecting on the strengths of your story and how to push that to the front. Also I finally got to write enough for a decent update! Chapter 5 continues. And this weeks has had it's minimum update. I think I might be able to get at least a second one out. Things may be a bit slow right now, but we must work our way to the action, right?
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Post by wunty on Dec 14, 2023 9:34:08 GMT
sunjumper Fully intending to read your part today. Brain has been buggered of late. Working far too many hours and various other shit taking over. Wanted to wait until I was in a reasonable state to give coherent feedback.
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Post by sunjumper on Dec 14, 2023 14:00:02 GMT
No worries mate, I know the joys of a fried brain. Take your time. The updates won't run away.
While I'm here a few "for the edit" comments.
I really loved how you used ivy and amber in your story. It enhances what was festering in the background and is an element that become more interesting through the reveal what they symbolise. Also through the mosaic way you introduce the information there is never a "big reveal" but something for the reader to realise on their own which is especially satisfying. In that vein I would add Violet's to the story, nothing front and centre but as a small thing that keeps cropping up. It could be standing half wilted in the background. Or just surviving stubbornly in a shady corner in Adam's apartment. Adam might take care of it once in a while, remember it seeing it and know that it would be time to water it but then get distracted by other "more important" things. No need to put that into the limelight. It works much better in background. The ivy itself my start to gro weird violet blooms later in the story. Or something like that.
I also looked up the meaning of the name Daphne and I don't know if you are a subtle genius or just the luckiest bastard, but Daphne means "laurel". Which would be a great prize and decoration for any would be artist. You can and should probably add some of that here and there too.
Another suggestion would be to do a little timeline/write up for your self. About the way Adam's relation ship with Amber and Violet, and Daphne and Ivy developed. With a few more scenes between them you can add more substance to the story. It would be interesting to know how Adam sees Ivy. Does he confuse her with Violet? Does he sometime which Violet was more like Ivy? etc... Also what exactly is Daphne for him? More like Amber "was in the beginning"? A better Amber? Or just a more interesting person altogether, what with her also being a 'proper' artist? These things you can use to inform the existing scenes. Especially as it gives you a larger canvas on which to paint Adam's personality, which should be primarily self-centred, if you want to keep the asshole part of him in focus. Or more like a yearning, burnt-out and/or bitter one if he is to be more of a tragic figure.
Which brings me to the three cycles. Here you have a really good story telling device to evolve your story and match each cycle to a level of development in Adam.
The first one is confusion and violent denial. Here Adam is as confused as the reader, but obviously the fucking hero. Cycle two can the carry the realisation, that there are things festering in the background, something is not right and it might very well be Adam's fault. The third and last cycle is the one were Adam need to grow. He either grows towards realising what his failures were and working towards his salvation (if a bit late) or him doubling down on being the real victim here or just not being quite able to do what is necessary.
Lastly I would teak at least the background of Denys and Yana (?) a bit, they play far to central role to be just a quick projection of something he heard in the news. The others are OK as they mostly serve the role of spectres haunting Adam. Now that you know the story as a whole you can also tweak their functions to drive your point forward more.
Your story as is, is already great, with some polish it will shine.
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Post by sunjumper on Dec 14, 2023 17:40:55 GMT
And the next update is done. :-) wunty this chapter contains a homage to your story, I hope you enjoy it.
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Post by sunjumper on Dec 15, 2023 18:03:05 GMT
And another update to chapter 5. Things are coming along nicely even if I still haven't reached the point I wanted to be at right now. Mpf.. At this pace it will take a loooong time to reach the tournament... Meh... as long as the flow is good. [Edit: fixed the link]
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Post by wunty on Dec 18, 2023 20:11:10 GMT
Chapter 5 continues. And this weeks has had it's minimum update. I think I might be able to get at least a second one out. Things may be a bit slow right now, but we must work our way to the action, right? Right. I'm back. Don't know where most of the last week went but I made myself sit down and read. "All in all it was a small room that refused to be confined by its dimensions." I like that description. " “Fuck the bridge…”" There's really nice more developing characterisation going on throughout this scene. It's nice and uplifting, with them both getting some well earned rest. The tone is jovial. "She added a good amount of cream, turning the coffee from event-horizon black to a very dark brown. When she pulled the spoon out of it she was a bit surprised that it still existed." That's pretty much how I like my coffee. It's making me want one. "the boat moving very slowly towards a large metal portal that cut off the canal in front of them, framed by high towers with armed guards on various levels of them. Mostly people with crossbows on the lower levels and longbows on the higher ones. But there were a few guards at the top which had pre-fall rifles." And just like that, this description announces itself and things get serious very quickly. Nice. " “You are our guests of course, but in the Purgatory Gap you are also our guards. We fight together and we make it together.”" Things get veryserious! " “Some of us will be in Purgatory much earlier…” There was a deep sadness in that voice." Very ominous. A nice sense of building tension after the gentle start here, yet still punctuated with some light-hearted descriptions to keep things bobbing along. Great work.
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Post by wunty on Dec 18, 2023 20:18:58 GMT
And the next update is done. :-) wunty this chapter contains a homage to your story, I hope you enjoy it. "It was then that she saw ivy growing up the handrail." Lol. Love it. That bloody Ivy gets everywhere. "Aren’t you, Alekto Sinister?”" I love that name. " It was hard to imagine that these compact metal things were what caused the Dies Irae, which almost led to the apocalypse." Intriguing... "“It is not dead what can eternal lie," Can't beat a Lovecraft reference. This whole part is very HP, with it's talk of old gods etc. It's great. Liked that. Good bit of descriptive there about not just the ship, but a bit more flavour of the world and the belief system. I was wondering the purpose of the engine room visit, and there it is.
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Post by wunty on Dec 18, 2023 20:26:10 GMT
And another update to chapter 5. Things are coming along nicely even if I still haven't reached the point I wanted to be at right now. Mpf.. At this pace it will take a loooong time to reach the tournament... Meh... as long as the flow is good. [Edit: fixed the link] Don't worry. That's what I do. I have a fixed point, thinking I will get there fast but get sidetracked with something else. It's all good. It all helps solidify the story and add flavour to it. Plus, you never know what excitement you'll unearth going off the beaten track a bit. “No wonder these things ate the world…”, Cara said. “They didn’t, it was us”, Erika said Quite! "it dared anyone who could hear it to stand in their way as the Ruhig Blut accelerated into the Purgatory Gap." Exciting! Not much to say about that. I really liked it. The build up is palpable here and I now cannot wait to read the next bit. Overall this chapter is working really well. Some nice inconsequential stuff at the beginning to ease you in, then a hint of the oncoming trials, then a nice bit of flavour and world building, then a good chunk of build up and suspense. Brilliant work, and sorry I took so long to get back to you.
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Post by wunty on Dec 18, 2023 20:28:35 GMT
No worries mate, I know the joys of a fried brain. Take your time. The updates won't run away. While I'm here a few "for the edit" comments. I really loved how you used ivy and amber in your story. It enhances what was festering in the background and is an element that become more interesting through the reveal what they symbolise. Also through the mosaic way you introduce the information there is never a "big reveal" but something for the reader to realise on their own which is especially satisfying. In that vein I would add Violet's to the story, nothing front and centre but as a small thing that keeps cropping up. It could be standing half wilted in the background. Or just surviving stubbornly in a shady corner in Adam's apartment. Adam might take care of it once in a while, remember it seeing it and know that it would be time to water it but then get distracted by other "more important" things. No need to put that into the limelight. It works much better in background. The ivy itself my start to gro weird violet blooms later in the story. Or something like that. I also looked up the meaning of the name Daphne and I don't know if you are a subtle genius or just the luckiest bastard, but Daphne means "laurel". Which would be a great prize and decoration for any would be artist. You can and should probably add some of that here and there too. Another suggestion would be to do a little timeline/write up for your self. About the way Adam's relation ship with Amber and Violet, and Daphne and Ivy developed. With a few more scenes between them you can add more substance to the story. It would be interesting to know how Adam sees Ivy. Does he confuse her with Violet? Does he sometime which Violet was more like Ivy? etc... Also what exactly is Daphne for him? More like Amber "was in the beginning"? A better Amber? Or just a more interesting person altogether, what with her also being a 'proper' artist? These things you can use to inform the existing scenes. Especially as it gives you a larger canvas on which to paint Adam's personality, which should be primarily self-centred, if you want to keep the asshole part of him in focus. Or more like a yearning, burnt-out and/or bitter one if he is to be more of a tragic figure. Which brings me to the three cycles. Here you have a really good story telling device to evolve your story and match each cycle to a level of development in Adam. The first one is confusion and violent denial. Here Adam is as confused as the reader, but obviously the fucking hero. Cycle two can the carry the realisation, that there are things festering in the background, something is not right and it might very well be Adam's fault. The third and last cycle is the one were Adam need to grow. He either grows towards realising what his failures were and working towards his salvation (if a bit late) or him doubling down on being the real victim here or just not being quite able to do what is necessary. Lastly I would teak at least the background of Denys and Yana (?) a bit, they play far to central role to be just a quick projection of something he heard in the news. The others are OK as they mostly serve the role of spectres haunting Adam. Now that you know the story as a whole you can also tweak their functions to drive your point forward more. Your story as is, is already great, with some polish it will shine. This is all brilliant. Thank you so much. Very interesting observations there and no word of a lie, it will help greatly when I begin the edit. I'll definitely do a timeline. I did a rough one at the start then didn't bother to add to it as I went along. Like most of my notes tbh. Armed with what I know now, and you're feedback, I'll go back to it and start filling in the gaps and iron out the details. If you think it's worth doing?
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Post by sunjumper on Dec 19, 2023 12:01:36 GMT
This is all brilliant. Thank you so much. Very interesting observations there and no word of a lie, it will help greatly when I begin the edit. I'll definitely do a timeline. I did a rough one at the start then didn't bother to add to it as I went along. Like most of my notes tbh. Armed with what I know now, and you're feedback, I'll go back to it and start filling in the gaps and iron out the details. If you think it's worth doing? I think it's worth doing, yes. The story is great as it is and has even greater potential. Now that you told the story for yourself you know what happened and can now make it sing and shine. Before you were discovering most of it and now that you know it you can explore the meatier parts and like someone making a documentary find the best parts "in the edit". I'm here if you want more feedback. :-) Some further thoughts: You should explore more the actual life of Adam. Now that you know what happened explore for yourself more of the important details. The important bit here is: for yourself. It doesn't matter if these are just shower thoughts and day dreams, some quick notes on paper or some more elaborate little stories. In the end these are parts that should just inform and add further weight to the story. Nothing that needs to be spelled out or put as an entire block into the story. But once you know more you can put things into your story that resonate in the story and if there is something about your work that is already far above and beyond the average, the it's your allusions, as well as the sprinkling of information here and there. There are several points that you could explore (again, for yourself, these aren't things that are missing from the main narrative): Who exactly is Trent? Did he really exist or is it more of a reflection of Adam's. That would kind of make sense as he does hate himself. And him hating this guy who he'd like to be would be perfect for someone who keeps ruining everything because he is such a self absorbed prick. Or was he real and is someone who got all that Adam wanted for himself? This one works better if it never is spelled out in the book. But being aware of how this can read to the reader allows you to build on that when editing the story. This also would be one point where I'd say, that even if you find your canonical answer, don't spell it out in the story. It's not that kind of narrative. The same goes Denys and his wife, they could've been neighbours maybe? Already strange and loud back in reality. People who really liked Violet and treated her well? Adam the asshole might be thankful for them because they took care of her when ever she was a nuisance but at the same time he resents them for them being so nice and so close to her? Did they "vanish" before Adam had his accident? Are they also guilty of something horrible? (It would make sense as Denys seems to be kind of a prisoner there too, or is this again just projection from Adam). A few extra thoughts regarding the three Cycles: The first one in the flashbacks to his real memories should be the most idealised. Where everything is perfect and Adam is the hero of the story. (in a way that is either too good to be true or already filled with a bit of dissonance that comes from Adam's "me first" attitude). With the following cycles having everything fall more and more apart and having Adam react to it. I really liked how in the final Cycle Adam remembers everything what happened clearly and it is infested with this "bah, not my problem" attitude. Ah! Almost forgot, one change that I would make at the very end. Adam turns around to talk to either Ivy and/or Violet. This causes the accident. Make it more intentional and stupid. He is an self-absorbed arse. Make him become impatient and overtake the lorry in front of him. Bonus points if it is in a bend, to have oncoming traffic and that causing the accident. Another thought maybe have him crash not into the sea but have him crash into something that is more marshy and muddy? That would work better with the mud that is all over the place in the "other world", he can there find Violet and later Ivy. Or not. As you can see your story remains alive in my mind. That is a good sign. See the above as an ideas pick'n'mix. Also thank you for your feedback, it is as always very helpful and very motivating. I am sitting on a major update but I want to finish the blasted chapter 5 first I didn't want to end the next update on more build-up again. There has to be some payoff. I should be able to write the last part soon-ish.
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wunty
Full Member
Pastry Forward
Posts: 5,140
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Post by wunty on Dec 20, 2023 10:34:06 GMT
sunjumper Again, all VERY useful stuff. You've really got me thinking about the revision, and I thank you for that. I think I've got it all a lot clearer in my head now!!
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Post by sunjumper on Dec 26, 2023 2:33:48 GMT
This took forever, mostly because I was to stubborn to post a new update without the stupid pirates finally attacking. Nonetheless chapter 5 is finally done. This is also my largest update yet. From now on I hope to be a bit more chill and post smaller updates more often. Enjoy the new part and merry Christmas everyone.
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Post by sunjumper on Dec 29, 2023 14:58:04 GMT
And another update. This one in between the Chapters showing what is happening to the other people and hopefully building a bit of suspense.
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