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Post by Aunt Alison on Oct 13, 2021 8:52:52 GMT
To be clear, my personal feeling is that at the moment the Swtich is my primary console while I wait for a PS5, but I'm really quite happy with it and I doubt I'll bother with a PS5 for a long while yet. I'm perfectly happy with the Switch for the most part - it would be nice to be able to play some third party games and it's annoying when indie games don't run as well as they should
I appreciate design over fidelity but as was said, you can have both and Nintendo's games are starting to release with performance issues
My argument is with saying that more power is somehow a negative thing and we're better off as we are. From a business point of view, maybe, but I'm not a businessman and don't really care about Nintendo as a company beyond them staying in business and continuing to make games
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Post by Aunt Alison on Oct 13, 2021 8:54:02 GMT
I must say, I recently watched my 9-year-old nephew play the Link's Awakening remake, and he didn't seem to have a single problem with the framerate. He should know BETTER, the damn Philistine. I'll be sure to tell him that as soon as I'm allowed to babysit again. As long as 9 year olds are happy |
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Post by elstoof on Oct 13, 2021 9:09:35 GMT
You would, but would enough others? Then what, you release games running as they should on the pro but even more gimped on the standard? Then release a new machine 2 years after a few million have just invested in an essential upgrade? Didn't you just by the Switch OLED even though you yourself said you don't need it? 
What you've just said worked for MS/Sony
I am absolutely the opposite of what represents good commercial business decisions |
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Post by elstoof on Oct 13, 2021 9:12:15 GMT
Also PS4 pro only sold a couple of million units. I have one, and the fact itās sitting under the TV means I have no desire to get a PS5 any time soon
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Post by dangerousdave on Oct 13, 2021 11:44:59 GMT
I must say, I recently watched my 9-year-old nephew play the Link's Awakening remake, and he didn't seem to have a single problem with the framerate. He should know BETTER, the damn Philistine. I'll be sure to tell him that as soon as I'm allowed to babysit again. As long as 9 year olds are happy Link's Awakening should have been locked 30fps. It would have actually suited the art style, with the toy like aesthetic. Would have felt closer to a stop motion animation. Did I say that right? Feels weird writing that down. Stop motion animation. |
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Post by steifybobbins on Oct 13, 2021 22:15:18 GMT
Many of you have taken what I said and simply twisted it to your own ends or conveniently ignored large parts of what I wrote. Never did I say a better version wouldn't be beneficial I simply stated to some people it's not that big of a deal and that its reasonable for a person to genuinely suggest some switch games look as good if not better than SOME next gen games. I've played a lot of both and I'd happily say that in some select cases. I also didn't boil down an argument to art Vs performance. I said that the latter doesn't guarantee the former.
I also didn't see any explicit attempt from the poster I defended to irritate anybody. It seems to me that That particular counter argument is based more on your assumptions about that person much like many of the responses aimed back at me are making assumptions on the thoughts inside of my head or embellishing what I actually said to fit a pre determined narrative. The rest of the responses simply repeated things I already attempted to explain previously. I even read someone state Metroid looks Fugly.(Fugly? Really? My kids say used that word in 2012 or something) anyhow, Not to Me it doesn't and I say that objectively. As previously stated it's absolutely your right to feel that way but it doesn't make it a fact you can use to suggest I must be weird or stupid or something. it's simply your opinion but when I look at it I genuinely don't feel it is ugly. Additionally the fact I don't think it looks ugly does not mean I don't think it could look better. All I learned from the responses after I logged back in tonight is that a bunch of you couldn't help but prove my point in the first place. Your opinions are not facts. Your experience Is not THE experience it's Yours and that's fine but it should also be fine for others to have different thoughts on the same subjects.
P.s. If anybody mentions an old console game again in response please refer to my first post this morning it's all there for you if you bothered to read and understand it. I suspect you did but just fancied trying to wind others up which again proves my point that people seem to enjoy tearing others down rather than having a reasonable debate. It's puerile unnecessary and not in the spirit of a forum built for discussion
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Post by steifybobbins on Oct 13, 2021 22:25:44 GMT
Many of you have taken what I said and simply twisted it to your own ends or conveniently ignored large parts of what I wrote. Never did I say a better version wouldn't be beneficial I simply stated to some people it's not that big of a deal and that its reasonable for a person to genuinely suggest some switch games look as good if not better than SOME next gen games. I've played a lot of both and I'd happily say that in some select cases. I also didn't boil down an argument to art Vs performance vs. design. I said that performance doesn't guarantee a believable immersive game. I stand by that. A lot of those hyper realistic graphics are just super pretty textured boxes and the more real those start to look the more jarring it is when they don't respond as you would expect in the real world. It's simply harder to suspend disbelief and that is a big bugbear for me personally and one of the reasons I'm pretty apathetic the the last 2 console gens. I also didn't see anything explicit from the poster I defended to irritate anybody. It seems to me that, That particular counter argument is based more on your assumptions about that person much like many of the responses aimed back at me are making assumptions on the thoughts inside of my head or embellishing what I actually said to fit a pre determined narrative. The rest of the responses simply repeated things I already attempted to explain previously. I even read someone state Metroid looks Fugly.(Fugly? Really? My kids say used that word in 2012 or something) anyhow, Not to Me it doesn't and I say that objectively. As previously stated it's absolutely your right to feel that way but it doesn't make it a fact you can use to suggest I must be weird or stupid or something. it's simply your opinion but when I look at it I genuinely don't feel it is ugly. Additionally the fact I don't think it looks ugly does not mean I don't think it could look better. All I learned from the responses after I logged back in tonight is that a bunch of you couldn't help but prove my point in the first place. Your opinions are not facts. Your experience Is not THE experience it's Yours and that's fine but it should also be fine for others to have different thoughts on the same subjects. P.s. If anybody mentions an old console game again in response to this please refer to my first post this morning it's all there for you if you bothered to read and understand it. I suspect you did but just fancied trying to wind others up which again proves my point that people seem to enjoy tearing others down rather than having a reasonable debate. It's puerile, unnecessary and not in the spirit of a forum built for discussion |
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Worlds
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Post by Worlds on Oct 13, 2021 22:25:44 GMT
Guys, itās an opinion. A concerning trend these days is how people attack others having different opinions.
In my opinion, we donāt need a more powerful Switch. Interestingly, the company themselves, Nintendo, agree. They, after all, are the experts in marketing and understanding data.
I think a 4K, really powerful Switch right now would actually damage the look of the games. Thereās a certain magical, charming feel to their games right now. As I said, Mario Kart and BotW look 10/10. Do I need them in 4K?
Iām also in the design world and run a business, so maybe my opinion isnāt all stupidā¦.
Most gamers want power. I get that.
To be fair, I have a PS5 which I love, and was only recently in awe of Death Stranding on it.
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MolarAmšµ
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Post by MolarAmšµ on Oct 13, 2021 22:33:58 GMT
Sorry, but it'd be harder to twist words if there weren't ever so many of them.
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Post by Aunt Alison on Oct 13, 2021 22:37:23 GMT
Agree this is getting a bit heated now and I'm not even that fussed about it, it was just a discussion. No one is being attacked. I haven't directed any insults at anyone or tried to tear anyone down, just disagreed with their arguments. I've explained my comments in regards to Worlds original posts Thereās a certain magical, charming feel to their games right now You could say that about the SNES, N64, GameCube, Wii, etc.
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Post by dfunked on Oct 13, 2021 22:38:33 GMT
I feel like I've been personally attacked for using the word "fugly" to describe Metroid running in docked mode.
In a post about, erm...
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MolarAmšµ
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Post by MolarAmšµ on Oct 13, 2021 22:39:10 GMT
Just as an aside, I wonder how many households in Japan have 4k TVs. Because that's usually been the market Nintendo is most concerned with.
My guess is "relatively few", but I don't know.
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Derblington
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Post by Derblington on Oct 14, 2021 0:39:21 GMT
Guys, itās an opinion. A concerning trend these days is how people attack others having different opinions. In my opinion, we donāt need a more powerful Switch. Interestingly, the company themselves, Nintendo, agree. They, after all, are the experts in marketing and understanding data. I think a 4K, really powerful Switch right now would actually damage the look of the games. Thereās a certain magical, charming feel to their games right now. As I said, Mario Kart and BotW look 10/10. Do I need them in 4K? Iām also in the design world and run a business, so maybe my opinion isnāt all stupidā¦. āOpinions are like arseholes. Everyone has them and most stink.ā No-one is attacking you, people are opposing your opinion. Youāre allowed to have it, weāre allowed to disagree. This is a place to discuss them. Itās not interesting, you have no idea what Nintendo think, but youād be incredibly naive to think that they arenāt deep into planing the next, more powerful, thing theyāll be releasing (MS and Sony will be too). If rumours are to be believed, they already have the 4K dev kits for this very purpose, but were hindered by chip shortages to bring it to market in an immediate timeframe. Iām not personally convinced on that last point but many are. As Iāve pointed out previously, youāve just bought an upgraded Switch, which is the basis of your argument about how good the games look because of the new screen, which directly goes against your argument that upgrades arenāt needed. Nonsense. Both games youāve chosen were released on the Wii-U, look better on the Switch, and look better still on emulation on PC. You can check out comparison videos/performance breakdowns of them online. Look at any title thatās available on both Switch and this or last gen Sony/MS consoles - games like SoR4 work well across the board, but compare titles like Witcher 3 (Switch vs PS4 Pro), Doom Eternal and Fenix Rising (Switch vs PS5/Xbox Series X) and the benefits are clear. Actually go and look at video comparisons and then come back and tell me you think they look better on the Switchā¦. Iāll help: Adding more power wouldnāt ruin anything and no magic would be lost. Theyād be the same games with better performance and cleaner images. Congrats on being āin the design worldā. More than a handful on here are or were (I was a product designer for some years. Nothing Iām particularly proud of, it was a job, but clients included Tesco, Avon and Bloomingdales NYC. It makes no difference to this convo though..). |
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Post by cubby on Oct 14, 2021 6:27:50 GMT
I'd be amazed if the rumours of them using that DLSS witchcraft are true.
If so it's got to be a couple of years away for it to get to a price nintendo would be happy with, unless it's cheaper than I'm led to believe.
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Post by dfunked on Oct 14, 2021 8:56:57 GMT
DLSS means they can use lesser hardware to hit a 4k target, surely. If they weren't using it and were aiming for native 4k, then yeah, many many years away!
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Post by Phattso on Oct 14, 2021 10:10:53 GMT
Yeah, the core purpose of DLSS is to get relatively humble hardware to punch waaaay above its weight. It is 100% absolutely the smartest thing Nintendo could do right now, and it was 100% the stupidest thing for Sony and MS to ignore going into their 4K consoles. It's the fact that AMD are shit at it, and Nvidia are years ahead, that means it's doable for Nintendo. A relatively humble Switch 2 could absolutely hang with the big dogs in the present gen. 1080p internal res bumped up to 4K - with more detail! - when docked.
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cubby
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Post by cubby on Oct 14, 2021 12:24:12 GMT
Yeah I genuinely have no idea how much these things cost for console makers. It's just I'm seeing DLSS tech on some quite pricey graphics cards at the moment so it seemed like it might be too much for Nintendo right now.
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Post by Phattso on Oct 14, 2021 12:30:32 GMT
DLSS is available on the absolute lowest-end 3000 series card that Nvidia make, which is why it punches above its weight. It absolutely is not the province of high-end cards only. Note that due to chip shortages, GPUs are massively overpriced which might be why you feel it's unobtainable for Nintendo.
It's just a bundle of extra ML-dedicated cores on the GPU die. Your phone has similar things for all of its machine-learning gubbins like facial recognition, photo processing, and wotnot. It's a commodity tech right now (that AMD are about two generations behind on compared to Nvidia).
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Worlds
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Post by Worlds on Oct 14, 2021 15:30:29 GMT
Thereās a certain magical, charming feel to their games right now You could say that about the SNES, N64, GameCube, Wii, etc.
Yeah and we are not even 5 years into the life of the Switch. How long do we typically have console cycles for? Was the Wii U a significant upgrade on the Wii? I'd say we still have another 3 years left on the Switch. |
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Kay
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Post by Kay on Oct 14, 2021 15:40:53 GMT
I'm still confused as to how the "magical, charming" feeling of a game can go away just because of a higher resolution and/or framerate.
Mario Galaxy looked great in SD in 2007, but everyone knew back then it would have looked even better in HD. The OG Link's Awakening was great, but the remake is perhaps even more charming.
And does that imply that 4K games on PS5/Xbox just cannot be charming in the same way?
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H-alphaFox
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Post by H-alphaFox on Oct 14, 2021 18:06:21 GMT
I finally shelled out for Nintendo online, kids are stoked and are playing games they haven't for years.
I'm a good Da.
Also picked up Hot Wheels Unleashed but they aren't interested in that while they can play Splatoon again.
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Post by dangerousdave on Oct 14, 2021 18:59:08 GMT
Splatoon is genuinely amazing. Everybody I've convinced to try it has been obsessed with it.
I can't wait for the third one.
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H-alphaFox
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Post by H-alphaFox on Oct 14, 2021 19:19:41 GMT
Definitely keen on Splatoon 3.
That is what convinced me to get the online sub, I mentioned Splatoon 3 and the boys were like 'meh not like we can play it'.
They used to love it and even I'd play so I was a bit disappointed by their uninterest but they have been good at school and stuff so it's good to see it back on rotation.
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Post by dfunked on Oct 14, 2021 19:23:28 GMT
I really should give it a go... Enjoyed what I played of the first game on Wii U and I've even got the garish Splatoon Pro controller to go with it.
It's that bloody Nintendo tax though. I might as well just hold off for #3 if I have to pay full whack for #2 however long after launch.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2021 20:35:03 GMT
Little, sly recommendation on the side, sort of a nudge-nudge-wink-wink in a dark digital alley somewhere, empty lootboxes and forgotten season passes strewn about, shifting around forlornly in the gusts of putrid AAA windā¦
Ahem, should you see Dungeon of The Endless on sale, definitely give it a shot. Itās a lil fuckin cracker of a game. Sort of squad-based tactical dungeon crawling/exploration juxtaposed with tower defence, innit?
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Post by Sarfrin on Oct 15, 2021 6:39:41 GMT
I couldn't care less about 4k 60fps. My point is that as an end user, why do you care about anything but having the most powerful console that can be put out? I bought a switch specifically because it was portable. |
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Post by One_Vurfed_Gwrx on Oct 15, 2021 6:57:08 GMT
I really should give it a go... Enjoyed what I played of the first game on Wii U and I've even got the garish Splatoon Pro controller to go with it. It's that bloody Nintendo tax though. I might as well just hold off for #3 if I have to pay full whack for #2 however long after launch. Yeah, my son was interested in Splatoon 2 since trying one of the trials but now that 3 is announced he prefers to wait for that one instead (especially as number 2 hasn't got particularly cheap) |
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Post by Aunt Alison on Oct 15, 2021 6:58:29 GMT
I couldn't care less about 4k 60fps. My point is that as an end user, why do you care about anything but having the most powerful console that can be put out? I bought a switch specifically because it was portable. I was just arguing for the sake of it to be honest. I've never used mine undocked so I don't really even think about it as being portable but that is a good reason to get one. I do appreciate being able to play all their current games on one console instead of having to buy two. Advance Wars would definitely have been on the handheld console and I'll be able to play it on the TV
I've just started BotW and it is a beautiful looking game. It does get a bit framey at times 
To go back to the original debate (lols), I was arguing that if BotW was made from the ground up for PS5 level hardware, it would be a better looking game. I don't think that increasing resolution or textures automatically improves a games visuals and it can make them look a lot worse if the assets were not created with it in mind. I've never seen BotW in 4k 60fps (if possible on emulators), and I don't care to. Unless you're looking at them side by side, I don't think it matters. I used the example of Ocarina and Majora's Mask on the 3DS because they were remade to keep the original look of the N64 games but more modern - I think they look better (though again, I haven't compared)
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suicida
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Post by suicida on Oct 15, 2021 8:45:58 GMT
Anyone picked up Disco Elysium? How is it on Switch? I've been dying to play this, but I might hang on for the physical release early next year
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Post by dangerousdave on Oct 15, 2021 11:28:30 GMT
The Eurogamer article suggests its a strong and well suited port. Had half an eye on it for years, but I'm more likely to pick it up now.
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