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Post by Aunt Alison on Oct 26, 2023 13:21:48 GMT
So, setting aside that some people in this thread have said it's the worst one, the usual take is that MGS3 is the best in the series. What makes it so good (without spoilers)? I enjoyed 5 a lot (but never finished it). I didn't mind the story, at least I found the cutscenes entertaining
Was more or less ignorant of the first game at the time (Nintendo/PC then) but I don't think it holds up beyond being some interesting ideas for the time that haven't aged well. I've completed 2 at some point, which was alright
As an aside, I always wonder what it's like to be the original creator with something like this, seeing other people remaking your game without any input or involvement
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Post by Jambowayoh on Oct 26, 2023 13:30:46 GMT
So, setting aside that some people in this thread have said it's the worst one, the usual take is that MGS3 is the best in the series. What makes it so good (without spoilers)? I enjoyed 5 a lot (but never finished it). I didn't mind the story, at least I found the cutscenes entertaining Was more or less ignorant of the first game at the time (Nintendo/PC then) but I don't think it holds up beyond being some interesting ideas for the time that haven't aged well. I've completed 2 at some point, which was alright As an aside, I always wonder what it's like to be the original creator with something like this, seeing other people remaking your game without any input or involvement I really enjoyed the story of 3 and the considerable world building around what made Big Boss the character. I also fucking loved the boss fights, the constant menuing was in hindsight terrible but it was my first of experience of a console game making survival mechanics mainstream. |
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Post by snackplissken on Oct 26, 2023 13:38:15 GMT
You get to climb a ladder for 3 whole minutes. Beautiful.
I think it's a combination of the characters, and the level design. I felt like I was constantly engaged within the terrain, figuring out enemy patrol patterns, hazards like snakes and trip wires.
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Tuffty
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Post by Tuffty on Oct 26, 2023 14:08:41 GMT
MGS3 works because story wise it can be played and appreciated by anyone who can't tell the difference between Solid and Liquid Snake. But also by the end gives enough backstop into the Big Boss character that gives him more depth and justification into his goals. The setting is very 60's James Bond while also tapping into Kojima weirdness like a man that can shoot hornets as a weapon. Gameplay wise it was a shake up to ditch the radar for camoflauge which added to the tension of sneaking around (remember the original didn't even have a behind the shoulder camera view). And MGS3 has those secrets you would find and tell everyone in school about like forwarding the system clock on the PS2 to skip The End fight.
1 remains the best to me, but 2, 4 and 5 are all so dependent on background knowledge its hard to recommend to anyone wanting to just jump in.
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Post by Aunt Alison on Oct 26, 2023 14:12:54 GMT
Big Boss barely feels like a character in 5. Everyone talks about him being a legend but he's just so passive, barely even says anything. Seems like a bit of a dummy tbh. Idiot savant
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Tuffty
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Post by Tuffty on Oct 26, 2023 14:18:50 GMT
Well there's a reason why you don't hear much from Big Boss in 5... Ending of 3 was all you need to say "Hmm yes, this is why he snapped, got it"
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rhaegyr
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Post by rhaegyr on Oct 26, 2023 14:40:00 GMT
MGS3 works because story wise it can be played and appreciated by anyone who can't tell the difference between Solid and Liquid Snake. But also by the end gives enough backstop into the Big Boss character that gives him more depth and justification into his goals. The setting is very 60's James Bond while also tapping into Kojima weirdness like a man that can shoot hornets as a weapon. Gameplay wise it was a shake up to ditch the radar for camoflauge which added to the tension of sneaking around (remember the original didn't even have a behind the shoulder camera view). And MGS3 has those secrets you would find and tell everyone in school about like forwarding the system clock on the PS2 to skip The End fight. 1 remains the best to me, but 2, 4 and 5 are all so dependent on background knowledge its hard to recommend to anyone wanting to just jump in. In all honesty I disagree with most of this - I found the story dull as dishwater and though I cared about Naked Snake/Ocelot I didn't really care about The Boss at all (the whole premise of the end fight is ridiculous). The codec characters and conversations are boring too. Villains were even worse than MGS2 - 'The Fury', 'The Sorrow', 'The Fear', 'The Pain'? You barely had any background/character to them (unlike the previous entries) and barring a couple of them the fights were just an annoyance. I've never played Subsitence, just the original version. No radar and a top down view just did my head in - continually having to switch to 1st person to see if there were any guards every few steps got real old real fast. Lots of time spent in menus too fucking about with CAMO, CURE and all that jazz. I know I'm in the minority but to this day I still don't understand why it's held in such high regard unless the Subsistence version is that much better. Really hoping the remake makes me see what everyone else is! Edit - and it's an endless collage of browns |
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Post by dangerousdave on Oct 26, 2023 15:30:49 GMT
MGS3 is definitely the best, closely followed by 1. I think both have a stronger focus on gameplay and aren’t too ridiculous, narratively speaking. I couldn’t care for 2 or 4, personally. Narratively speaking they are both way too bonkers and way too self indulgent. Almost great, but Kojima can never find the perfect line between excellence and excrement. He’s like the Ridley Scott of gaming.
I never played 5, but I did enjoy Ground Zeroes enough to finish it 5 times over.
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addyb
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Post by addyb on Oct 26, 2023 15:47:18 GMT
So, setting aside that some people in this thread have said it's the worst one, the usual take is that MGS3 is the best in the series. What makes it so good (without spoilers)? I enjoyed 5 a lot (but never finished it). I didn't mind the story, at least I found the cutscenes entertaining Was more or less ignorant of the first game at the time (Nintendo/PC then) but I don't think it holds up beyond being some interesting ideas for the time that haven't aged well. I've completed 2 at some point, which was alright As an aside, I always wonder what it's like to be the original creator with something like this, seeing other people remaking your game without any input or involvement I really enjoyed the story of 3 and the considerable world building around what made Big Boss the character. I also fucking loved the boss fights, the constant menuing was in hindsight terrible but it was my first of experience of a console game making survival mechanics mainstream. 3 was my favourite, absolutely amazing. Boss fights were great. |
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Post by Whizzo on Oct 26, 2023 16:09:01 GMT
I never played 5, but I did enjoy Ground Zeroes enough to finish it 5 times over. If you had that much fun with Ground Zeroes you really should play MGS5. Even if you ignore all the bollocks and it's clearly not finished you'll have fun. |
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Post by dangerousdave on Oct 26, 2023 16:12:51 GMT
I should! I know Ground Zeroes was small, but it worked perfectly as a sandbox game. It was fun experimenting with different strategies and such. I remember folk complaining about the price, but I got great value out of it.
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Tuffty
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Post by Tuffty on Oct 26, 2023 18:30:48 GMT
I loved Ground Zeroes and was ready for more detailed sandbox levels approached in multiple ways. MGS5 wasn't quite like that, only a few areas were as detailed which lead to some of my disappointment. Luckily Hitman came along.
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Post by 😎 on Oct 26, 2023 18:35:54 GMT
3 is the one I just completely fail to get. 1, 2, 4, Peacewalker, 5, I’m all fine with, can play them no problems. But 3 I can barely get through the first few sections, let alone make any progress. I know it’s a me thing but it feels like I’m fighting the game half the time because it’s obtuse and clunky.
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Post by baihu1983 on Oct 26, 2023 19:19:36 GMT
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kal
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Post by kal on Oct 26, 2023 20:39:00 GMT
3 is the one I just completely fail to get. 1, 2, 4, Peacewalker, 5, I’m all fine with, can play them no problems. But 3 I can barely get through the first few sections, let alone make any progress. I know it’s a me thing but it feels like I’m fighting the game half the time because it’s obtuse and clunky. Definitely not a you thing, although I’ve struggled to varying degrees with all of them after the first two (both of which I finished several times). But yeah of all of them 3 was the one I just couldn’t get my head around at all. |
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Post by monkman5000 on Oct 26, 2023 20:47:50 GMT
Is there a Gas Snake?
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cubby
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Post by cubby on Oct 26, 2023 20:58:49 GMT
I finished the first 3 (not subsistence), 1 and 2 several times, 3 maybe twice. I just feel like an MGS game should have a radar map.
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Oct 26, 2023 21:05:41 GMT
I've only played Ground Zeroes and The Phantom Pain, but I absolutely loved them (especially the latter, which was my all-time favourite game until I discovered Dark Souls).
I was dead set on getting The Master Collection when it came out, but I watched some footage of Metal Gear Solid on YouTube and it put me off big time; in that sense, the remake of Snake Eater may be right up my street.
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Tuffty
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Post by Tuffty on Oct 26, 2023 23:17:20 GMT
4 will be an interesting one for people to experience once it finally gets ported off the PS3. Imagine the reception when people see the ratio of cutscenes to gameplay is about 60/40.
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Post by drhickman1983 on Oct 27, 2023 6:28:19 GMT
Personally I liked the characters in MGS3 and I actively sought out the radio conversations.
But even if you dislike the radio conversations, it has the best balance between gameplay and cut scenes of the first four games - whilst there are so a lot of cut scenes they are used relatively sparingly compared to the other entries, mostly being at the start and end.
The story is also a lot less convoluted than 1 and especially 2. There are still twists but it's not trying so hard to be post-modern and clever
The environments are great, and more diverse than MGS1 and 2, and the gameplay refinements are good (though not massively different)
I've played 3 through the most of all the games. The OG version a couple of times back in the day, and Subsistence another 2-3 times, including the HD version released in the 360 era.
Subsistence makes the game amazing imo. The camera angle makes it easier, for sure, but it makes it feel fairly contemporary.
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Post by dangerousdave on Oct 27, 2023 6:58:16 GMT
VR missions doesn’t get spoken of much, but that was also great. Is that part of MGS 1 on the compilation?
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Post by drhickman1983 on Oct 27, 2023 7:11:43 GMT
dangerousdaveI believe it is, pretty sure I saw the VR missions specifically mentioned on the listing
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Solid-SCB-
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Post by Solid-SCB- on Oct 27, 2023 7:29:15 GMT
MGS1 in the recent collection has MGS1 Vanilla, MGS Integral, MGS Special Missions and MGS VR Missions. A lot of those are just region specific titles of the same sort of thing but it basically includes every PS1 MGS release.
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Post by snackplissken on Oct 27, 2023 7:38:44 GMT
MGS1 in the recent collection has MGS1 Vanilla, MGS Integral, MGS Special Missions and MGS VR Missions. A lot of those are just region specific titles of the same sort of thing but it basically includes every PS1 MGS release. I'm sure I read these were really weak ports of them? and better off emulating if that's your thing. |
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Solid-SCB-
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Post by Solid-SCB- on Oct 27, 2023 8:49:45 GMT
It depends how arsed you are about the marginal visual differences of what is ultimately a 25 year old game designed to be played on CRT TV's. I've found it to be perfectly fine in my current playthrough so far. Even better is you can download the NTSC version of the game if you so wish, which runs smoother by default.
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Post by FlexibleFeline on Oct 27, 2023 9:26:59 GMT
So, setting aside that some people in this thread have said it's the worst one, the usual take is that MGS3 is the best in the series. What makes it so good (without spoilers)? I enjoyed 5 a lot (but never finished it). I didn't mind the story, at least I found the cutscenes entertaining Was more or less ignorant of the first game at the time (Nintendo/PC then) but I don't think it holds up beyond being some interesting ideas for the time that haven't aged well. I've completed 2 at some point, which was alright As an aside, I always wonder what it's like to be the original creator with something like this, seeing other people remaking your game without any input or involvement The End. I mean the boss fight. Brilliant. But also, the end. It wraps up really well, which was a relief after the woeful guff of MGS2. Also, what snackplissken said about the ladder  |
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rhaegyr
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Post by rhaegyr on Oct 27, 2023 9:42:43 GMT
It's incredible how prophetic the end of MGS2 has turned out - it seemed like absolute gibberish at the time.
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Tuffty
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Post by Tuffty on Oct 27, 2023 9:49:23 GMT
I remember my older brother being in the same room as the codec conversation towards the end played out and at one point he asked me "You don't believe any of this do you?". Sounded like complete mumbo jumbo...til it wasn't. Prob a huge factor on why Kojima is rated so highly as an auteur
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Post by starchildhypocrethes on Oct 27, 2023 9:53:20 GMT
MGS3 had too much hiding in grass and faffing about with camouflage menus. I gave up.
The first is the best. I’d say they basically get worse with each iteration.
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Post by FlexibleFeline on Oct 27, 2023 9:56:53 GMT
It's incredible how prophetic the end of MGS2 has turned out - it seemed like absolute gibberish at the time. Haha, that's true. I hated it at the time - it genuinely made me angry, and I'm usually sensible enough not to get mad at a videogame. But it does perhaps deserve a replay (or is that rewatch?). |
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