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Post by darkling on Feb 6, 2022 11:06:23 GMT
It was good, but to me Luke's face still had plenty of the uncanny valley about it. There was just something not quite right.
I have 20/20 vision and was watching in 4K DV, so maybe any imperfections were more perceivable to me?
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lexw
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Post by lexw on Feb 6, 2022 12:01:12 GMT
It was good, but to me Luke's face still had plenty of the uncanny valley about it. There was just something not quite right. I have 20/20 vision and was watching in 4K DV, so maybe any imperfections were more perceivable to me? I suspect it's more a question of people focusing on relative quality than a difference in perceptive capacity. I mean, I would agree there were quite a number of times it was a bit either "uncanny valley" or just didn't quite look like Luke, but someone else, but overall, the effect was excellent, at least relative to all other attempts to do similar things. It was pretty amazing when all was said and done, and likely to only improve. 20/20 vision is unlikely to factor in, as when people watch TV, they're usually wearing any corrective lenses they need, if they need them for that. 4K can certainly highly flaws in FX, but comparing it in 1920x1080 and 4K I'm not seeing it as "more uncanny" in 4K. |
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Post by darkling on Feb 6, 2022 13:30:31 GMT
It was good, but to me Luke's face still had plenty of the uncanny valley about it. There was just something not quite right. I have 20/20 vision and was watching in 4K DV, so maybe any imperfections were more perceivable to me? I suspect it's more a question of people focusing on relative quality than a difference in perceptive capacity. I mean, I would agree there were quite a number of times it was a bit either "uncanny valley" or just didn't quite look like Luke, but someone else, but overall, the effect was excellent, at least relative to all other attempts to do similar things. It was pretty amazing when all was said and done, and likely to only improve. 20/20 vision is unlikely to factor in, as when people watch TV, they're usually wearing any corrective lenses they need, if they need them for that. 4K can certainly highly flaws in FX, but comparing it in 1920x1080 and 4K I'm not seeing it as "more uncanny" in 4K. I agree that pixel counting and clarity has very little to do with the overall effect. I was really just boasting about the optical capabilities at my disposal. I also agree that the effect was good, but I just wish they wouldn't attempt this stuff unless it's absolutely perfect, because the human eye can tell. It was close, but I just felt a little more work would have achieved perfection. |
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JonFE
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Post by JonFE on Feb 6, 2022 14:28:06 GMT
I also agree that the effect was good, but I just wish they wouldn't attempt this stuff unless it's absolutely perfect, because the human eye can tell. It was close, but I just felt a little more work would have achieved perfection.
To what degree is that "the human eye can tell" opposite to "the mind knows otherwise" though? I mean, we all know how Mark Hamill looks now (or Luke looked back then) and we can look for and spot the details; if we could "unsee" what we actually know, are you sure we could tell the difference? If someone had zero knowledge, would he notice?
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Post by simple on Feb 6, 2022 15:19:20 GMT
I thought Luke looked great. If anything was off for me it was the voice. I get he’s meant to be all zen and at peace at this time but it sounded more like they’d taken an audiobook reading and pasted it in rather than having whoever it was acting as part of the scene.
I’m easily willing to forgive considering its a character from when I was barely born recreated so well but if I was a nitpicker that’d be it.
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lexw
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Post by lexw on Feb 6, 2022 15:45:43 GMT
I also agree that the effect was good, but I just wish they wouldn't attempt this stuff unless it's absolutely perfect, because the human eye can tell. I think the issue here is that that just doesn't happen. All FX tech develops through use. Even where tech is relatively well-developed when it starts to be used, people will be incompetent at using it initially. The jump just from Mando S2 or Rogue One to this was absolutely gigantic, but if Mando S2 hadn't tried this, this improvement literally wouldn't have happened, because they literally hired one of the people who thought Mando S2 could have done better. I doubt he's entirely satisfied, and we may well see another improvement next year. |
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deebs
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Post by deebs on Feb 6, 2022 15:46:17 GMT
There were a couple of dead eyed seconds where I could tell it was deepfaked, but for the most part it was perfectly fine. A ton better than that CGI nonsense.
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Post by britesparc on Feb 6, 2022 17:40:06 GMT
The Luke effect was excellent, the best example of de-aging* I've seen outside of Sam Jackson in Captain Marvel, and I'd argue that was probably simpler to achieve.
But it can be strange how we perceive things, and sometimes knowledge of how an effect may have been accomplished taints our ability to accept it, I find. In Rogue One, I thought Tarkin was incredible achievement; he looked more-or-less real but I found it a bit uncanny because he didn't really seem like he was Peter Cushing. Interestingly, my wife assumed it was an actor in prosthetics rather than CGI.
*I know it was deep fake rather than digitally youthing Mark Hamill, but you know that I mean.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2022 18:58:15 GMT
I thought that Skywalker looked great. It didn't last time and they hired the guy who did it better and now it looks even better. Couldn't fault it and they learnt a hell of a lot.
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Post by simple on Feb 6, 2022 19:24:38 GMT
I thought Luke looked ok in his first appearance but the tears may have been obscuring my vision
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Post by mothercruncher on Feb 6, 2022 22:24:04 GMT
The cameo is the guy that stood in for Jabba, talking to Han by the Millennium Falcon because of budget restraints. He now runs a hipster coffee shop called May The Froth Be With You.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2022 1:50:15 GMT
It will be Rick Moranis reprising his Dark Helmet character from Space Balls.
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Post by khanivor on Feb 7, 2022 2:04:20 GMT
I thought Luke looked exactly like he should, with the only thing harming the illusion being the one thing no FX can ever change - I know that’s not 1980’s Mark Hamill.
I should ask my eight year old what she thinks. Which, makes me think, she really needs to watch RotJ again. It’ll be weird hearing someone recognize Max Rebo, Klattu and Luke from ‘Mandalorian’. Then I’ll ask her if she has an observations on Luke from Mando and last week. We’ve been watching Corridor Crew for the last two years, so she’s pretty clued in to VFX
Luke’s voice sounded poor, however. The deep fake audio of Val Kilmer’s voice in Val was incredible. Perhaps having his son be the base track helped. But you’d think they could have a better result, especially as Hamill is one of the best voice actors in the business
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Post by britesparc on Feb 7, 2022 11:08:05 GMT
I hadn't realised at first that it wasn't Hamill's voice. I thought either that, being a good VO artist anyway, he was just trying to put on a more youthful tone, or that they'd fiddled with it in post to make him sound closer to how he did in the 80s. In fact, this is what I attributed to the stitled vocal performance in the last ep: Hamill trying to adopt a register closer to how he sounded in his thirties or something, coupled with audio trickery. To find out it's not even him speaking is a bit odd. I mean, his voice in The Last Jedi still sounds like Luke - it's not as if he's turned into Nick Nolte or something. Surely we'd have bought it?
Does make me think, if it's not him performing and it's not him speaking, is the credit just because of his likeness? Or did the base the various doubles' performance from a read/walkthrough by Hamill first?
I should really watch the documentary on D+ !!!
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Post by Whizzo on Feb 7, 2022 11:15:48 GMT
Does seem odd not to get him to do the voice, even if it may have needed tinkering with, but on the whole the "Luke" we got was an astonishing feat and a massive improvement over his appearance in The Mandalorian and that was leagues ahead of Tarkin and Leia in Rogue One.
We're getting much closer to the day of seamlessly adding actors that have aged out of characters or died.
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Post by britesparc on Feb 7, 2022 11:21:47 GMT
We're getting much closer to the day of seamlessly adding actors that have aged out of characters or died. If it's not already happening, I reckon very soon actors signing huge contracts to appear in big franchises like the MCU or Star Wars are going to be required to sign a waver saying that their likeness can be assumed by another actor even after their death (or, I guess, beforehand too, to avoid a Crispin Glover/BTTF situation). |
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Post by Whizzo on Feb 7, 2022 11:57:35 GMT
If it's not already happening, I reckon very soon actors signing huge contracts to appear in big franchises like the MCU or Star Wars are going to be required to sign a waver saying that their likeness can be assumed by another actor even after their death (or, I guess, beforehand too, to avoid a Crispin Glover/BTTF situation). If "Paul Walker" doesn't have a role in the last Fast movie I'd be very surprised, they've skirted around him being dead while his character isn't by using his brothers and camera tricks but a full replacement version of him will appear I'm sure of it.
Which will make the goodbye scene in Fast 7 rather less than it was. |
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aubergine
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Post by aubergine on Feb 7, 2022 12:05:53 GMT
I’m pretty sure Hamill’s voice is permanently cracked with polyps from decades of pulling cones with Carrie Fisher. I was pretty surprised but his joker voice in the Arkham games is not that far from his real voice.
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Post by Red_Bool on Feb 7, 2022 12:46:02 GMT
So, what's the expected length of the next (final?) episode?
I think (hope) there's still quite some stuff that needs to happen if they want to wrap it up properly (or at least sufficiently with a decent cliffhanger).
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Post by khanivor on Feb 7, 2022 14:09:44 GMT
It’s fairly certain that Ford, Hamill and whole bunch of estates have either signed deals or are in negotiation for the rights to their likenesses.
Daniels will probably still be in the suit into his second century
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Post by britesparc on Feb 7, 2022 14:57:41 GMT
Daniels is currently recording every sound it's possible for a human mouth to make so they can deep fake his voice for all eternity.
The guy who really got screwed was Kenny Baker. No likeness, no voice. For shame.
Being semi-serious for a sec, image likeness rights (or whatever) are definitely a part of blockbuster movie contracts, and have been for decades - Zoe Wannamaker was whinging about it when she was in Harry Potter, complaining that she didn't get any money from the toys that bore her face. But when it comes to performance, I think that's different; that's what Crispin Glover sued the producers of BTTF Part II over. He felt that they'd hired an actor, made him look like Glover, and then that actor had mimicked Glover's performance as George McFly. IIRC the case was settled, but there was some kind of change in contracts or in the actors' unions as a result.
We've already seen plenty of examples of dead actors being CG'd into doing new things - there was that bloody advert with Audrey Hepburn, for a start. And yeah, I reckon the core cast of the OG Star Wars films have been/are being asked to sign documents stating that they can make a digital Han Solo or whatever appear in Galaxy's Edge. But it's probably going to become common practice going forward, actors signing away the rights for their performances to be digitally replicated without them.
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lexw
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Post by lexw on Feb 7, 2022 15:16:08 GMT
So, what's the expected length of the next (final?) episode? IMDb has it at 38 minutes, which would mean about 30 minutes of actual episode. They're not always right, but... sometimes they are. The realistic most we could hope for 50-something minutes, which would mean like 45+ minutes of actual show. Which would still probably not be enough to resolve a whole lot of what they're setting up. You'd need a double-episode to do that, and that's not going to happen, because if it was, Disney and associates would be dropping hints already. My guess is IMDb will be correct, and we'll get a short episode which is focused around the battle with the Pykes, resolves very little, is mostly actually about setting up Mando S3, and has some sort of ludicrous cameo at the end. Also as RR is directing I expect there to be some serious teeth-gnashing and beating-of-chests re: the direction lol. Perhaps Space-Machete and Chekhov's Rancor will make up for Space-Vespas and the the lowest speed chase in the galaxy though. |
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Blue_Mike
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Post by Blue_Mike on Feb 7, 2022 15:39:32 GMT
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Post by Red_Bool on Feb 7, 2022 15:52:17 GMT
IMDb has it at 38 minutes, which would mean about 30 minutes of actual episode. 30 minutes would be a serious letdown. Especially after the two-episode detour of ~40-45 minutes each I can't imagine they'd end the 'main story' in 30 minutes (or perhaps they do, to get it over with?) |
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Post by simple on Feb 7, 2022 18:31:36 GMT
It is annoying that Disney+ insists on a minimum of ten minutes of credits for anything on there. My “now watching” list is almost entirely stuff we’ve stopped midcredits
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Post by neilch on Feb 7, 2022 20:50:43 GMT
The pacing with this series has been all over the shop. Not convinced the ending is going to be very satisfying. Setting up Mando series 3 and probably one of the other spin offs. As someone said earlier in the thread, I had assumed that this was to give the creatives a break to work on Mando3 but they all seem to have been involved in this as well ... so 🤷♀️
I know it's a later era in the Last Jedi, but I'd like to see some more of Canto Bight and the high living intrigue of the casino world and arms traders.
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Post by Reviewer on Feb 7, 2022 21:21:53 GMT
IIRC the guy didn’t just do some deep fake video that was better, he does loads of research into CGI and effects methods. |
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Post by simple on Feb 7, 2022 21:37:46 GMT
I’m fully prepared for half an hour of build then it ends just on the brink of the action starting
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aubergine
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Post by aubergine on Feb 9, 2022 9:13:59 GMT
The episode is an hour. Pretty good. There’s a post-credit sequence that sets the stage for new character… RoboCobb |
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EMarkM
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Well, quite...
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Post by EMarkM on Feb 9, 2022 9:35:20 GMT
Excited now. Not clicking on spoilers!
We’ll hopefully be watching this evening.
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