malek86
Junior Member
Pomegranate Deseeder
Posts: 3,250
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Post by malek86 on Apr 11, 2023 6:33:45 GMT
I think it's kind of telling that NES games like Super Mario and Zelda are still fondly remembered, while people only tend to remember Metroid from Super and onward.
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Post by dangerousdave on Apr 11, 2023 10:40:29 GMT
Metroid definitely lacks polish. Not so much from a presentation point of view, but a game balancing one. It could have done with a bit more time in the oven. Same as Kid Icarus, with its reversed difficulty curve.
I guess Mario and Zelda were better scoped projects.
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Post by RadicalRex on Apr 12, 2023 19:49:07 GMT
Metroid II: Return of Samus (Game Boy) The good: You can crouch and you can shoot downwards, yay! No more being unable to attack enemies that are too low. The map is more interesting imo, with all the different areas and structures and stuff (and much less asset reuse--it's a 2 MBit cartridge, twice the size of M1), making it feel more like actual exploration. There've been better maps in later games of course, but it's a big step up from M1 which mostly felt like a bunch of samey rooms randomly stitched together. Map progression is on the linear side, it feels a bit like levels, but I think this was a wise choice considering that it still has no automap and that traversal is so slow. I like that it has energy and missile refill stations (although sadly they're a little too rare). I like the catchy main theme. I like that it's Metroid. And one little detail I love... saving. You stand on the pillar, press start, and bam. Done. Saving takes ages in later Metroid games, the programmer who made this must be a genius or something. Should have hired this guy for the later games. Anyway... The bad: No map is still a hassle, especially when I have cleared an area of all but one Metroid. Ugh. Would be easier if you could see further, but the screen crunch is severe. Only in part thanks to being a GB game, because they decided to also make Samus fucking huge. I heard people say that's a feature because it makes the game more claustrophobic and creepy, but honestly I don't feel it. It's a frigging Game Boy game. I think most of the soundtrack sucks, if you can even call it that. Movement. God it's sluggish. All Metroid games prior to Fusion were floaty, but it's the worst here. Exacerbated by how much slower jumping is compared to walking. For some reason, all 2D Metroid games insist on having slower movement during jumps, but again it's the worst here. Even hopping on little rocks annoys me because it slows you down so terribly. Using space jump to reach higher places is even slower than rolling up using Spider Ball. Doubly so since Space Jump has this invisible timer thing going on where you fall down all the way if you miss the window. Maybe it's just me, but I found deeply unsatisfying movement a pretty big issue in a metroidvania with all the exploration and backtracking. What makes it even worse is the piss poor combat. Most enemies don't even attack you, they just slowly move left and right, or in a rhombus or circle shape or whatever, waiting to be shot. Some of them are so tiny, with even tinier hitboxes, that it's just a needless hassle without any actual threat. You could argue about how much combat you actually want in a metroidvania, if you are actually fine with it being just exploration. But I like to have something to do, especially when there's so much stretched out traversal. It feels like a walking simulator sometimes, a Game Boy walking simulator with painfully sluggish movement. Even Metroid 1 at least gave me something to do on the way. And btw, Hollow Knight--which I believe is the most popular metroidvania--is also one of the tightest action games in the genre. The boss (Metroid) fights are crap again, and the sheer number of them doesn't make them any more entertaining. Especially the Omegas are utter broken jank. If that wasn't enough, there's top-grade Design By Jank where a Metroid fight is placed within the shootable sand, which respawns whenever it goes off screen. There's no attempt whatsoever to make an interesting fight, they just throw crap in your face and call it a day. Oh, and in the last area with the 3 Omegas? If you need to refill health or ammo between them, have fun going all the endless fucking way back to the refill stations in the previous area. Honestly, this is just bullshit game design. All things considered, with all its improvements and deprovements, I think Metroid 2 is about as shit as Metroid 1. Better at exploration, but even worse at action. Worth playing? In my opinion, no. 4/10I'll come to the remakes after Zero Mission. But I believe it's apparent that I think the original is by far the worst way to play Metroid 2.
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Post by RadicalRex on Apr 19, 2023 2:29:14 GMT
Super Metroid (SNES)
It's Super Metroid.
10/10
Super Metroid Redux (SNES)
The one thing I'm not a big fan of in SM is the floaty physics. Not a dealbreaker, but I found Zero Mission's quicker pace a great improvement. Super Metroid Redux with the optional "heavy physics" module fixes this, to the point that it feels even better than ZM. A dream come true.
Other changes include:
- more changes to movement physics so you don't lose your speed/momentum all the time
- weapon switching and diagonal aim system like in the GBA games
- ability to enter rolling jump from standing jump like in later games
- more useful map (e.g. doors)
- shorter speed booster run-up distance (can be reversed via another optional module)
- no health loss from shinesparks
- skip intro section (via another optional module)
- hard mode (stronger enemies, less health from pickups)
- base beam without upgrades shoots faster
- red doors need only 1 missile
- faster door transitions
- shorter upgrade notifications
So it's a set of improvements made by a group of enthusiasts who've been playing SM for decades, and it shows. It's fantastic, SM finally breathes free. I'd call the base game one of the best games of all time, but with Redux I'm comfortable saying it's the best game of all time.
11/10
I struggled long with what to even write about this game. I could write books about it, but everyone knows it and probably everything's been said a thousand times. Instead of gushing over how brilliantly it is designed I'll try to restrict myself to some points why I prefer it to any other game in the series.
First, the tone and atmosphere hits a sweet spot for me. While I do enjoy Zero Mission's more colourful and slightly more cartoonish style, the relative grittiness of SM is just right to me. I'm usually no fan of CRT filters, but for this game it's perfect.
I love how decidedly taciturn it is. After the story is briefly explained, once you start playing not a single word is spoken in the rest of the game. Even fucking Super Mario World is chattier than SM. Unlike in any later game, powerups aren't even explained, instead relying on its masterful wordless teaching. The rare exception is when the game feels it absolutely has to explain how to use an item, e.g. the Morph Bomb.
Importantly, this extends to world building, none of which is explained, everything's left to your imagination. The most striking example is probably the Wrecked Ship, no explanation where it comes from or what is going on there. I love this! There's nothing wrong per se with having things explained like in Fusion or Prime, but I just get the most immersion out of it if everything's shrouded in mystery.
I see a parallel here to my adoration of Kubrick's 2001: not explaining what's happening makes it more magical and wondrous to me. When the explanations ultimately come (in this case, in "2010"), I usually find them underwhelming and I wish it never happened. Similar for the explanation for the Reapers in ME3, or indeed sometimes the story parts of later Metroid games.
Gameplay-wise, I have a probably unpopular opinion: I think SM's moveset is even better than ZM's. When I first played the latter, I thought it was a massive improvement, but the more I replayed SM afterwards in different ways the more I appreciated it.
First, you have a run button. On the surface it may seem superfluous if you just move faster by default in the later games. However, for a start it allows you to jump farther. In all other games, you have one fixed jump speed, and SM allows you to cover more distance in a jump.
This is exacerbated once you get the speed booster: In the GBA-style games, you have to walk at regular speed for 1-2 screens until you switch to boost speed, and then and only then can you jump any further. In SM, with the run button you immediately start accelerating, and the faster you go the further you jump, so any run-up counts. But you don't only jump further, you also jump higher--encouraging running-up to reach higher places as well. This makes it all feel more organic and "sporty" to me than the more digital nature of the other games. I approve.
You can enter morph ball mode during a jump while still rising, allowing some pretty nifty moves with what's essentially a fake morph ball jump--in the GBA games you can't, you drop instantly when entering morph ball mode. If you shoot during a rolling jump, you switch to standing jump without penalty--in the GBA games, you also drop instantly if you do that, which is just odd.
What SM doesn't have is a ledge grab--but honestly, I prefer it this way for two reasons: A) I think wall jumping (and fake ball jumping) is more fun than ledge grabbing, and B) ledge grabbing is one of those automated actions that happen when I don't want them to, e.g. when I'm trying to dodge or, well, wall jump off the platform. I didn't find unwanted ledge grabs a big issue in the GBA games and AM2R, however in Samus Returns I did and it was annoying as hell.
Speaking of wall jumps, this is perhaps my most unpopular opinion: of all games I've played (not only Metroid games), SM has the best wall jump. Because A) it is harder than in most games, but that makes it better imo. There's some skill involved in pulling it off consistently, as it should. That way it keeps you on your toes, and if you're good at it, it feels earned and more satisfying than just button mashing up walls. Playing shooters with autoaim or racing games with driving assists is easier too, but easier doesn't equal more fun. B) Most platformers (e.g. Mega Man X, Hollow Knight) have you slide down walls, another one of those automated mechanics that get in my way when I just want to fall down. And C) while this applies to the GBA Metroids too, they add another mechanic that makes it worse than SM imo: to make wall jumps easier, you're kind of "glued" to the wall for a moment. Not a big thing, but again an automated mechanic that I'd prefer just wasn't there. SM doesn't need it and doesn't do it, so it's the best of these.
That's a lot of talk about minute details, but the reason is that I wanted explain that I have actual reasons for saying that I think SM has the best moveset, instead of just looking contrarian/fanboyish. I hope I succeeded.
And finally I want to talk about freedom and sequence breaking. Fusion famously put red tape everywhere to prevent you from doing that, to the bepuzzlement of enthusiasts who want to have that. They listened to the feedback and brought it back in ZM, which is great, however I don't find it as satisfying as in SM. It gives you a lot of options and shortcuts, but with emphasis on "gives you". It has a general feel of you can do this because the game designer allowed you to, especially when it often involves destructible blocks. Not saying this is bad, but I think again SM is better.
SM has a lot of intended options and sequence breaks too, but they tend to feel more subtle, and the game is so broken that you can do a lot with glitches and exploits that most likely weren't intended. The line between intended and unintended is very blurred. Was I supposed to get there with a shortened speed booster distance? Was I supposed to reach the ceiling via knockback? Did they know the mockball glitch allowed you to skip the plant boss? Did they anticipate people could do reverse boss order runs starting with Ridley?
This ambiguity makes it all the more exciting to me. It makes you feel like you're outsmarting the game. It makes you feel naughty. You're not supposed to be here! Or are you...? Love it.
My preferred way of playing is skipping hi-jump boots, grappling hook, screw attack and space jump. I believe the first 3 are intentional, not sure about space jump though. I don't think they intended you to get to Lower Norfair without it, but then again one area there is locked off if you don't have it in your inventory. Is it intended after all? Or did they just want to be 100% sure because they knew players would find a way? Or is it just a bug? Again, all this delicious ambiguity.
And, now really finally, I don't like the endgame cleanup of the GBA games, i.e. having to go through all areas again shortly before the final boss if you want 100% completion, because many secrets are e.g. hidden behind power bomb blocks and in ZM you only get those very shortly before the end. I can see why some love this sort of "victory lap", but I don't like this stretching out just for the sake of 100%. In SM, once you get the Gravity Suit (shortly after the second boss, assuming no major sequence breaks), you have everything you need to get every secret. No needlessly forced backtracking, just pick everything up on the way if you know where it is.
I think I'll end here to keep it brief.
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malek86
Junior Member
Pomegranate Deseeder
Posts: 3,250
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Post by malek86 on Apr 19, 2023 15:23:22 GMT
Super Metroid Redux sounds like something I need to try.
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Post by RadicalRex on Apr 19, 2023 15:42:22 GMT
Absolutely do.
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Ulythium
Full Member
Lily-livered
Posts: 7,101
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Post by Ulythium on Apr 20, 2023 9:10:35 GMT
Blasphemous II seems set for a "late summer" release, in case anyone's interested:
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cubby
Full Member
doesn't get subtext
Posts: 6,362
Member is Online
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Post by cubby on Apr 20, 2023 19:13:57 GMT
I was looking up the info for super metroid redux when I came across this section
developed by who?? OCESSE?
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Post by RadicalRex on Apr 25, 2023 5:18:38 GMT
Metroid Fusion (GBA)
The good:
It's by all means a fun semi-linear action platformer. The action is faster, tighter and more challenging than Super. Fusion takes sole credit for removing the somewhat annoying floatiness of all previous games. Great QoL improvements like the weapon switching system and the better map that shows doors with colours and all.
It deals remarkably well with hardware limitations: GBA games often suffer from severe screen crunch, but I don't find it much of an issue here, they did a great job of adjusting the game's design to the limited screen space (can't say the same about the 3DS's Samus Returns). GBA games also tend to suffer from bad audio quality, but they managed to get punchy sound effects and mostly really decent music out of it. And then there's the high brightness that's so common among GBA games for technical reasons--that's pretty adverse for a Metroid game, but they did a remarkably good job with the new setting that manages to be bright and colourful without sacrificing too much of the atmosphere. I may not be happy with the direction they took with Fusion, but it's clear there were experts at work here.
The X/Metroid/Sax story doesn't get me too excited, but even considering how I prefer the non- or purely visual storytelling of the previous games, it's alright. I've seen worse (and from what I've seen and heard, it gets much, MUCH worse later on the Wii).
The bad:
The linearity, it's been talked to death so I don't want to go into detail. Being more linear is not bad per se, but it's not what I want from a Metroid game or even any metroidvania. And if only it was just linear... I think the worst aspect is the whole mission/objective thing going on. I've seen people say it all makes narrative sense, yeah sure but I just don't like it. In a Metroid game, I want to explore on my own. Without someone telling me where to go and what to do all the time.
This highlights another thing I don't like, Adam. As stated before, I don't want dialogue in a Metroid game either, badly hurts atmosphere/immersion for me, and Adam is annoyingly chatty. Most of the time the information he gives is pretty much "go here, get upgrade, don't enter freezing rooms" or something of the sort, but he just keeps on blathering without saying anything.
And what makes this worse in turn is, of course, unskippable dialogue and cutscenes. It's beyond me how many (even expert) developers keep fucking this up, especially in a game that is meant to be replayed a lot. It sticks out like a sore thumb when replaying Fusion compared to the other games in the series, and while it's not catastrophic or anything, it does sour the experience. Everytime I'm waiting again for being allowed to play on, I feel like I'd rather be playing one of the others.
Movement, while faster and snappier, is sadly also nerfed (no climbing a single wall with wall jumps, no infinite bomb jump, horrendously long speed booster run-up). Sequence breaking, so amazing in Super, is gone. Or is it? I don't know for sure, but from what I read online, there's almost nothing.
The endgame cleanup. As I said in my Super review, I hate this. I want to pick up secrets on my way through the game, not go through everything again just for the sake of 100%. I think it's a poor way to bruteforce backtracking that wasn't there in the previous games. I only got the 100% once actually, after that I couldn't be bothered anymore. It feels like the game stretches out its mostly linear part very long, only to become an open-ended Metroid game as late as possible.
The setting. That space station with a more high-tech environment. I don't have anything against it, it's fine, but for my liking it falls off a little compared to the lava caverns, Chozo ruins etc. from the other games.
And finally, health/ammo pickups trying to fly away from you and respawning enemies. Not a dealbreaker, but it's a little annoying and I wish it just wasn't there at all.
With all that said, most of that is about not giving me what I want from Metroid, not about the game being bad or anything. It is a very good game, a must play in my opinion, and I've played through at least 5 times and will again several times more. Lots of negativity for a 8/10, but keep in mind the predecessor got a 10.
8/10
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Post by RadicalRex on Apr 28, 2023 18:43:20 GMT
Metroid: Zero Mission (GBA)
When I first played this I was ecstatic about it, I thought it might be as good (or even better??) than Super. But that was before A) I found Super Metroid Redux, and B) after a while, my enjoyment was shrinking with every playthrough.
The good:
Being a Metroid 1 remake, the classic Metroid theming is back, with Zebes, the monsters, the music and all. Great! Speaking of music, it's amazing, especially Kraid's Lair--just like in the original game. Cutscenes and dialogue have been cut back immensely in a great course correction from Fusion. You still get a few map markers, but other than that any of the mission stuff from Fusion is removed. Very good.
Movement is great, even snappier than Fusion; and more importantly, unnerfed. Well, buffed compared to Fusion, still a little nerfed compared to Super. Sequence breaking is back too, with options to e.g. get the Varia Suit very early, there's ample opportunity to get to stuff and places early. Another big course correction, I approve.
For the first time, there's a hard mode. A very welcome addition, but I also think ZM was in most need of it among the games released to date. It's a bit too easy on normal difficulty in my opinion. I wish Super had this out of the box.
The bad:
It's an amazing game until you beat Mother Brain. And to me, this is the point where the fun just ends. I hate stealth/escape sequences, and this is no exception. It's not even that it's too hard, it's just pure tedium to me. And even once that's over and you get the big upgrade, in theory it should be liberating and fun to be overpowered now, but it leaves me cold for some reason.
Exacerbated by the fact that they repeated Fusion's endgame cleanup. Again bruteforced backtracking through half the map if you want 100%. When I replay Fusion these days, I don't bother with 100% anymore--when I replay ZM, I don't even bother with the final section. I just stop after defeating MB, everything afterwards is just a waste of time.
And as mentioned before, secrets and sequence breaks feel deliberately put there by a game designer, compared to the much more organic, ambiguous (and imo more enjoyable) nature of Super.
Overall, fantastic start with a lacklustre late game. Fusion isn't as good in the early game, but keeps up its level, so it's better in the late game. When I first played these games, I ranked ZM much higher than Fusion, but today I see them pretty much on par. They get the same score and I couldn't really tell you which I find better.
Still the best Metroid 1 remake (for a remaster get Metroid Planets).
8/10
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Post by RadicalRex on May 1, 2023 8:00:18 GMT
AM2R (Another Metroid 2 Remake) (Windows/Linux) Amazing fan game of such quality that Nintendo themselves could have made it. Essentially it's M2 getting the Zero Mission treatment, but without the annoying bits that one shoehorned in. Visually I'd say it's somwhere between the GBA games and Super, which is great. It plays like the GBA games, or should I say a refined version of them. It's very similar but feels even a little smoother, removing some quirks so that e.g. entering Morph Ball during a jump or shooting during a spin jump doesn't make you fall down instantly. Most importantly though, it adds a dedicated Morph Ball button that allows you to instantly enter/exit ball mode from any position or stance, which makes it a lot smoother and more enjoyable. Being on PC, higher resolution eliminates screen crunch and even allows widescreen play. This is such a great improvement. Also being on PC, there are no sound limitations (in contrast especially to the GBA's inherent low sound quality), and they opted for a CD-quality soundtrack without trying to emulate the limitations of a console-style sound font. The music is excellent and downright funky at times (somewhat reminiscent of Prime), working surprisingly well with the classic visuals without hurting atmosphere. I'd predictably still say Super wins the soundtrack category, but AM2R comes in second, beating everything else including Prime. Similar to ZM, it adds a few new areas and bosses, although not as many since M2 was a fairly large game to begin with. Most importantly, there's no stealth section. It doesn't do the endgame cleanup, there's still some required backtracking if you want 100% completion, but it feels more organic like it does in Super. The final upgrades you need to get everything are Power Bomb and Screw Attack, but A) you get these about 2/3 into the game, and B) Screw Attack gives you access to a fast travel system, a lifesaver especially with M2's map layout. It doesn't do tedious bullshit like having to chain together 10 shinesparks for a secret, when it does shinespark chaining it does 2 or 3 of them and knows that's enough. Puzzle/maze sections are nice and brief like in Super, especially in contrast to the overkill in Samus Returns. Being an enthusiast fan game that strives to meet players' choices, it has some great preference options and quality of life improvements. For example, you can choose if you want weapon selection and/or diagonal aiming in Super-style or GBA-style. You can skip the intro by pressing start, then the game just jumps forward to the point where you land on the planet and start playing, as it should--why can't Nintendo do this? Reminiscent of Prime, it even has scans of enemies and areas, but it just adds them to your log without interrupting the game in any way. You can even opt to not even be notified of the scans for a classic experience. Great! There's more, but I think you get the point. Fans do what Nintendon't. It has difficulty levels (normal/hard/Fusion), with Fusion not only increasing difficulty but introducing that game's behaviour of pickups and Samus/enemy visuals. I haven't finished it on Fusion yet, some of the boss fights are really rough. My personal favourite is the built-in randomiser. If you use that, all the lava is already lowered so you have access to most of the map straight away, which greatly helps randomised play. It just adds so much replay value, every playthrough giving a thorough feeling of exploration, with all the excitement of finding a neat upgrade. There are different levels of randomising, e.g. in the milder mode items are only randomised within the two main categories, so Missiles can be replaced with Power Bombs and Space Jump with Ice Beam, but not Ice Beam with Power Bombs. In the full-on mode any upgrade can be in any secret place, which I find the most fun. It's awesome. But the game's not perfect of course. Part of that is inherent to M2's nature, like the abundance of metroids to kill, although the fights against Alphas and Zetas are thankfully fairly brief (in contrast, again, to Samus Returns). The map isn't quite as varied and intricate as Super's and can feel stretched out at times. Some regular enemies are little more than brainless cannon fodder. But these are things that probably can't be changed without turning the game into something that's not M2 anymore. Some things aren't the fault of Metroid 2 though. Some of the redesigned boss/metroid fights are janky as hell, or there's still some jank in the controls (like Space Jump still not being 100% reliable). Some of these things can be annoying, but it's outweighed by so much greatness that I not only think it's the best way to play M2--in my opinion, this is hands down the second best Metroid game I've played. 9/10
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Post by RadicalRex on May 8, 2023 7:02:17 GMT
Metroid: Samus Returns (3DS)
Bit of an odd one. A "new" developer's remarkable first attempt at a Metroid game that kind of gets Metroid but at the same time kind of... doesn't? Definitely a good game in its own right, but imo doesn't quite reach the greatness of the best Metroid games.
I appreciate that it's a tight action platformer, I'm always in for that--even if I'm not super happy with the over-reliance on the parry mechanic. That may just be me, I just dislike parry mechanics in general. Not a huge fan of how free aim locks you into position either, I prefer the "mobile diagonal aim" of the previous games. But still, it's fine for what it is, it's entertaining enough.
However, a serious problem with the combat is how repetitive it is. It feels like you're fighting the same 3 basic enemies over and over again throughout the entire game, especially those fucking bats. It's not entertaining enough to sustain the endless repetition, and the main reason why I abandoned a second playthrough because it gets really, really old. It also hurts the distinctiveness of different areas: although they differ in looks and atmosphere, the ever-the-same enemy encounters make them blur together in a way that everything feels the same.
Boss and Metroid fights are mechanically solid, but they're too long, especially for how many there are. Particularly egregious with Gammas, some of which you have to fight 3 times in 3 different rooms. Too much! I've had many complaints about M2, but "more time should be spent fighting Metroids" was not among them. I even prefer the Gamma fights in AM2R, they're janky but at least they're brief.
And while mechanically solid, boss encounters feel a bit too gamey for my liking. As in, it feels a bit like you're fighting generic video game bosses with the same generic patterns that you've fought in a hundred other games. In contrast, even though I wouldn't count Super's bosses among the best in gaming, they're very distinct. Take Draygon for example, you're up against a big fucking scary alien in a unique and memorable fight--in SR, most boss fights feel like "now telegraphed charge attack X, now 360° laser beam Y, now flying left and right dropping shit Z". It feels a little like it's all taken from a game design textbook, and that hurts my immersion a bit.
Related to that, one thing I think the game really doesn't get is when it's supposed to let you breathe and just let the environment sink in. There's this ominous giant empty room shortly before the final section, and then there's the final sequence after beating the final boss. AM2R honours both, SR ruins both by cramming more of the same gamey stuff in.
I also think it's overdoing the environmental puzzles/mazes. They're fine on a first playthrough, although even within that I had concerns about replayability. And sure enough, it's not fun to do them again on the second one. They also contribute to everything blurring together because they feel kind of the same in all areas.
And last but not least, I think the game is too big. M2 wasn't that small to begin with, AM2R added some extra areas but hits a sweet spot and it stays true enough to the original game to be vaguely recognisable. SR puffs everything up too much, areas are huge and crammed with stuff.
I criticised forced backtracking in the GBA games, but it's even worse here. Exacerbated by how linear the one-way paths from A to B tend to be, compared to the more open-ended, interconnected nature of the previous games. Somehow backtracking is more tedious than ever before despite having a fast travel system.
I think there's a great lot in this game that screams More Is MoreTM like so many newer games do, probably so reviewers can say "you get 15 hours for your 40 quid" or something like that. But that's not good if it's repetitive, padded, overblown. What happened to "replay value"? In my opinion, that's a greater virtue than a long single playthrough, and one that ultimately provides more play hours per quid.
All of this must sound harsh. It is still a good game built on a very solid basis, and a must play if you're into Metroid. But it does have a lot of issues that in my opinion prevent it from being up there with the previous games from Super to AM2R.
7.5/10
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Post by RadicalRex on May 8, 2023 7:13:00 GMT
Metroid Prime (Gamecube)
Doesn't really belong in this thread, but I decided to briefly mention it because it's the final Metroid game I've played through. I own the Wii version but didn't like the controls, I recently finally played it through via MPR Phaze 1, which is an enhanced emulation that adds twin stick controls, so my experience should be similar to the official remaster.
I don't want to go into detail. It's a good game and everything's been and being said in the Remaster thread, but I will say why I'm not a big fan of it and that's the combat. I'm sorry, but it's not fun. It's been said how this game isn't about combat anyway, but for that it takes up far too much time and slows me down too much. Combat being uninteresting is one thing, being tedious is another. I think this is the rare game that I'd have enjoyed more if it had one of those "narrative/exploration" difficulty settings, I honestly think the game would be better if no enemy took more than 3 hits.
And so, just like Samus Returns, this is a one-and-done game for me that I sadly have no desire to return to, despite the things it absolutely gets right. It gets the same score as Samus Returns, it's a close call but if pressed I'd still give SR the edge.
7.5/10
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Post by RadicalRex on May 8, 2023 7:25:13 GMT
And finally, I'll give my current metroidvania tier list, which also shows where the Metroid games fit in in relation to other games of the genre for me. In some of these cases, "metroidvania" is a bit of a stretch, but I think they're at least tangentially related and sometimes they're included in other people's metroidvania rankings. I'll just put these in parentheses, feel free to ignore them.
"DNF" means I disliked them so much I couldn't force myself to finish them. I did finish all games in the other tiers at least once, some dozens (Bloodstained) or even hundreds (Super Metroid) of times.
GOAT:
- Super Metroid Redux
- Super Metroid
- Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night
- (Supraland)
Great:
- Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
- AM2R
Good:
- (The Messenger)
- Metroid: Zero Mission
- Metroid Fusion
- Axiom Verge
- Hollow Knight
- (Monster Boy and the Cursed Kingdom)
- Metroid: Samus Returns
- Metroid Prime
- Castlevania: Circle of the Moon
- Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow
- Record of Lodoss War--Deedlit in Wonder Labyrinth
- Gato Roboto
- Metroid Planets (Planet Novus)
- Alwa's Awakening (NES)
- Bone Appetit
OK:
- (Blasphemous)
- Haiku the Robot
- Alwa's Awakening (PC)
- Alwa's Legacy
- (Kunai)
- (B.I.O.T.A.)
- Metroid Planets (Planet Zebeth)
Eh:
- Chasm
- Axiom Verge 2
- Metroid
- Metroid 2
DNF:
- (Shantae games)
- Castlevania: Harmony of Dissonance
- Touhou Luna Nights
- Ori and the Blind Forest
- Ori and the Will of the Wisps
- (Steamworld Dig 2)
- (Rain World)
- F.I.S.T. Forged In Shadow Torch
- (Strider (2014))
- Guacamelee
- (Salt & Sanctuary)
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Youthist
Junior Member
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Post by Youthist on May 8, 2023 7:31:44 GMT
Can’t believe you didn’t like the Ori games. They are both fantastic!
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Post by dangerousdave on May 8, 2023 7:36:03 GMT
Reminds me I still need to buy Alwa's Awakening. There's a sequel due out soon, I think? Or its out already.
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Post by RadicalRex on May 8, 2023 7:37:07 GMT
Alwa's Legacy is the 16-bit sequel
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malek86
Junior Member
Pomegranate Deseeder
Posts: 3,250
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Post by malek86 on May 9, 2023 16:41:43 GMT
Can't say for sure what my favorite metroidvania of all time is. I tend to enjoy most of them, but I actually find it a real difficult genre to do perfectly well, because the risk of eventually making all that backtracking boring is ever-present.
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Post by Aunt Alison on May 9, 2023 16:43:28 GMT
It's either Super Metroid, Symphony of the Night or Hollow Knight
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Youthist
Junior Member
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Post by Youthist on May 9, 2023 17:56:06 GMT
It's either Super Metroid, Symphony of the Night or Hollow Knight Throw Bloodstained in and those are my 4 too. I am thinking of getting Steamworld Dig 2 which folks have raved about and looks like it could be good. Also when is Silk Song out. It has been a while. |
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Youthist
Junior Member
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Post by Youthist on May 9, 2023 17:56:46 GMT
It's either Super Metroid, Symphony of the Night or Hollow Knight Throw Bloodstained in and those are my 4 too. I am thinking of getting Steamworld Dig 2 which folks have raved about and looks like it could be good. Also when is Silk Song out. It has been a while. Oh and add Ori Will of the Wisps for my top 5. |
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Post by RadicalRex on May 9, 2023 19:14:00 GMT
I am thinking of getting Steamworld Dig 2 which folks have raved about and looks like it could be good. Forgot to put that in my list. DNF, didn't do anything for me. |
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Tomo
Junior Member
Posts: 3,492
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Post by Tomo on May 9, 2023 20:03:10 GMT
Hollow Knight is the best metroidvania by quite a way imo. Rain World is close, but it's not really a true metroidvania. Next best is Shadow Complex I reckon. God damn it needs a sequel.
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Ulythium
Full Member
Lily-livered
Posts: 7,101
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Post by Ulythium on May 9, 2023 20:08:38 GMT
Also when is Silk Song out. It has been a while.
It was (is?) supposed to be out within 12 months of last summer's Xbox showcase, which would be around the middle of next month; that seems kind of unlikely now, though.
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Post by Aunt Alison on May 9, 2023 20:13:15 GMT
Have heard next to nothing about Silksong for such a long time. Are there some issues with its development or are they just taking their time with it? Seems like they announced it way too early. I've stopped caring about it, to be honest
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Post by RadicalRex on May 9, 2023 20:37:45 GMT
Rain World and Strider (2014), more games I forgot in my list. All DNF.
In related news, although not metroidvanias, I've abandoned Panzer Paladin. Doesn't do much for me.
Currently playing Outbuddies DX (a metroidvania). Not quite sure how to feel about it yet, although a corrupt save file forced me to start from scratch after 90 minutes or so, which sucked. We'll see.
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Post by dangerousdave on May 9, 2023 20:41:34 GMT
Super Metroid
Metroid Dread
Hollow Knight
Ori and the Blind Forest
I can't think of a 5th, but I've enjoyed many others like Shadow Complex, Gato Roboto, Guacomelee, Steamworld Dig 2, as well as every other Metroid game.
I still have never played Symphony of the Night or its GBA follow ups. Not yet, anyway.
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Post by Aunt Alison on May 9, 2023 20:57:29 GMT
Axiom Verge worth a mention when talking about top tier metroidvanias. Amazing soundtrack SotN is a serious omission if you're into the genre. There were a few on the DS as well. Still hoping for a collection of those games
Also, I enjoyed Panzer Paladin. Remember the cutscnenes being pretty entertaining too
Anyone tried Moonscars?
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Post by steifybobbins on May 9, 2023 21:18:54 GMT
Reminds me I still need to buy Alwa's Awakening. There's a sequel due out soon, I think? Or its out already. I played Alwas on Evercade and loved it. Is it one of the best? No. But it has something. |
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Post by steifybobbins on May 9, 2023 21:28:17 GMT
If we are making lists here's mine in no particular order
1. The DS Castlevanias (probably Dawn of Sorrow)
2. Metroid Dread
3. Tales of Iron
4. Super Metroid
Couldn't get on with Hollow knight. Too many barriers to having fun like the need to find and buy a map and the souls mechanic. Just let me find upgrades instead thanks, and let me see how much of the map I'm yet to discover etc etc.
I wanted to like it but I just couldn't
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