Dune

In the book doesn't Paul have to take on the wife of the guy that he killed? I thought that might have added cultural context to why Chani might accept Paul marrying the emperor's daughter, leaving her as a bit on the side. Perhaps that wouldn't work as well today though.

All that ‘Emperor Hitler’ stuff and what a lightweight he was by comparison… 😳

Aand I just watched Dune Part 2.

Good film on its own but I don't know why they made certain changes, like Alia, no water of death and the lack of dialogue between chani and Paul and Jessica at the end.

Blatantly set up for Messiah now.

Another case of the book ruining the film 😝

Yeah I think the Alia change is perfectly understandable. Would have been extremely odd to the point of ruining the film I think. Even the batshit lynch version made her older.

I think it's generally an improvement as it gives Chani some agency, also some lines to say. Especially given Messiah.

Her role in the book is as a baby factory and ticking time bomb. YMMV, obviously, but I can 100% see why they changed her. It gives Paul something tangible to sacrifice and stops Zendaya being completely wasted.

Yeah this is what I was getting at. It's even more the case in Messiah. But my memory of the books is Chani and Irulan don't get much to say or characterisation in Dune other than as baby machines to be traded around by the men. Irulan has more to say in Messiah... But Chani not so much.

The books are of their time. Making your female characters a bit more than wives and mothers is a good thing in my book.

I liked the changes in the film (s). The motivations were a bit stronger and the women less baby makers and were actual people with a purpose.

I don't like the end scene cause it didn't do justice to this:


It took an ending of hope for Chani and twisted it. I can see the arguments for added agency yeah but not for changing that last part. 

Then again I don't think it was written to be a trilogy






I'll shut up now, this is all cause I finished the book and then immediately watched the film.

Pretty sure that's not how this was supposed to be consumed.

I'm gonna post this here too, since the film thread is mainly chatting about audio mixes, and cos I can do more spoilers here:

Talking of high volumes, I just got back from watching Dune 2 in IMAX. Similar to part 1, the music and explosions were so loud that my seat was actually shaking! And I definitely didn't pay extra for the 4DX version.
I actually missed some of the dialogue because some parts were so bloody loud. Or maybe it's just me getting old.

Both parts of Dune are weird in that they're less than the sum of their parts, and I'm not really sure why. The production design and sfx are epic and stunning. The acting is all good. The music and audio design is great (if too loud!). Pretty much all the parts are 10/10 and yet I find it all coming together as about a 7.5/10. Maybe just a bit better than Part 1.

I think the problem is the way the overall story arcs are introduced and followed through. Though I'm not sure if the issue is due to the movie, or the familiarity of the original story. Maybe both. But then the LotR movies are similarly epic with a similarly familiar story, and I'd rate those way higher.

Almost every individual scene is great and some of them are epic, but the way they're fitted together is oddly unsatisfying. They mostly avoid foreshadowing stuff, but that means they keep introducing stuff just before it becomes relevant, which kinda diminishes its emotional impact and makes it less satisfying.
If they were doing Chekov's gun they'd fail to show it until the moment it was drawn and fired.
I feel like someone could go through and re-edit the movies and make something amazing, just by reordering some of the scenes so that I actually care about stuff. As it is, it's just epic stuff happens for 3 hours and then we go home.

After sleeping on it a bit, I'm wondering if my issues with it (I did really enjoy it tho!) are more about the overall plot arc, or lack of one.

The story being split into two kinda hurts it here, as in Part 2 Paul is basically just getting buffeted along by events.



Anyway, i'm sounding like I hated it when I didn't.

I wonder if it'd have worked better as a GoT style tv series. You wouldn't have the big gap in the middle that disrupts the plot arc's momentum, and you'd have been able to lean more into some of the political shenanigans that were going on with the different factions, like the Bene Gesserit's various manipulations.

*
 

Yeah, like I've said before, it's pretty clear to me that you're meant to have a conflicted viewpoint on what Paul is doing. When everyone is piling into the ships at the end going "Woo, holy war, FUCK YEEEEEAAAAAH LET'S KILL SOME INFIDE- SORRY I MEAN COLONIALIST INVADERS", you're not meant to be fist pumping along with them.

Or at least it should be a guilty fist pump.

Is it as simple as (That could be a misapprehension on my part, I'm only halfway through the book)

But none of that is in the movie(s)!