スコットランド
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Post by スコットランド on Feb 17, 2022 8:58:18 GMT
www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-01-20/one-shot-to-protect-against-all-covid-19-variantsSo what exactly is a pan-coronavirus vaccine? The term has become a catchall for both vaccines that could protect against any current and future SARS-CoV-2 variants and those that could also provide immunity against SARS, MERS and any other coronaviruses that might come along. Scientists have reason to be optimistic that either kind is possible. Design templates already exist for universal vaccines against flu and HIV. The trouble is, none of these designs has yet made it to the marketplace, and many have failed altogether.Coronaviruses may be easier targets, however. Their built-in error-correcting mechanism causes them to mutate much more slowly than flu viruses or HIV do.So scientists in academic and government labs are working with a specific design that has shown promise against the flu: a nanoparticle studded with pieces of the virus that are known to be important for eliciting a strong immune response.Researchers at many labs — including the Walter Reed Army Institute of Research, the National Institutes of Health, the California Institute of Technology, the University of Washington’s Institute for Protein Design and Northwestern University — are experimenting with various kinds of nanoparticles decorated with spike proteins taken from various SARS-CoV-2 variants.The idea is that exposing the immune system to a few different spike proteins will enable it to mount a defense against any it might encounter. Last month, Walter Reed scientists published data showing that their pan-coronavirus vaccine caused nonhuman primates to produce neutralizing antibodies against not only SARS-CoV-2 but also SARS-CoV-1, the strain responsible for the 2003 SARS outbreak. These researchers have already begun an early Phase 1 trial in humans to ensure it is safe and gauge the immune response it elicits.
Another experimental pan-coronavirus vaccine created by Pamela Bjorkman’s lab at CalTech has room for even more spike proteins than the Walter Reed one has. She’s preparing to begin a trial in the U.K.I can't believe no-one has told these guys that they are wasting their time.
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111
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Post by 111 on Feb 17, 2022 9:09:56 GMT
I wouldn't base choices around a hypothetical future vaccine that may never exist and even if it did you don't know who it will be given to.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2022 9:14:06 GMT
Wait so you're hiding away waiting for the hypothetical next vaccine which won't get the funding to rollout unles things go badly tits up again, all while the highly effective vaccine you've already had becomes less and less active in your immune system.
Good plan.
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richardiox
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Post by richardiox on Feb 17, 2022 9:14:11 GMT
Are any of the lEtItRiP crew not yet infected? Isn't the "let it rip" crew basically the vast majority of the democratic global public health policy makers at this point?
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スコットランド
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Post by スコットランド on Feb 17, 2022 9:25:21 GMT
Wait so you're hiding away waiting for the hypothetical next vaccine which won't get the funding to rollout unles things go badly tits up again, all while the highly effective vaccine you've already had becomes less and less active in your immune system. Good plan. I'm not hiding away, just not convinced by the door handle licking approach. I'm amazed that multiple companies and research labs at top universities are bothering when they definitely won't get funding. Maybe you should give them a call, make sure they check with you before wasting your time again. Those silly billy academics and Pharma companies, if only they listened to English gaming nerds on a forum.
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スコットランド
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Post by スコットランド on Feb 17, 2022 9:28:42 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2022 9:30:50 GMT
Guess we'll just see what happens then eh. You're definitely due being right about something soon so who knows.
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111
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Post by 111 on Feb 17, 2022 9:44:41 GMT
only they listened to English gaming nerds on a forum. Lol. An inventive way to swerve round the age-old pit-fall of dismissing disagreements with one's posts on a gaming forum by saying that everyone else's replies are just posts on a gaming forum.
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richardiox
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Post by richardiox on Feb 17, 2022 9:58:12 GMT
UK, US, Australia, Switzerland, Denmark, Sweden, Netherlands.. pretty sure all are close to zero restrictions at this point? May help if you clarify what you mean by "let it rip"? The bottom line is - as shown by the recent New Zealand policy change - is that Omicron can't be kept at an R rate below one. So basically the vast vast majority of people will get it until an endemic / herd immunity threshold is reached. It's hard to know what you're advocating for at this point. Slowing the spread is counter intuitive due to waning vaccine efficacy. Your point about future variants is hypothetical at this point. If things need to change they will but we can't carry on forever based on your outlook.
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Post by elstoof on Feb 17, 2022 10:10:50 GMT
They’re working on experimental cures for aids and cancer too, doesn’t mean they’re close to being seen
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111
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Post by 111 on Feb 17, 2022 10:42:45 GMT
No that can't be true. Either scientific work yields imminent, 100% effective in all people, side-effect free, affordable results OR the people engaged in it are wasting their time. Those are the two options. Trying to develop something and it only being a partial success, not working at all, or taking an enormous amount of time to come to fruition are unheard of.
Therefore we should base decisions about what to do now on assumptions that things that are under development a) will happen, b) are arriving in the coming months/years and c) will work perfectly in all people with minimal downsides.
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スコットランド
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Post by スコットランド on Feb 17, 2022 10:48:24 GMT
Guess we'll just see what happens then eh. You're definitely due being right about something soon so who knows. Solid discussion, ignore all posted links, info from actual experts and resort to "You're always wrong". Class.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2022 10:53:51 GMT
I've repeatedly tried to discuss it with you and you always revert to the same "let it rip" bullshit. Now you're having digs at the English. You're really not worth the time. You're clearly incapable of any kind of understanding of the situation which is why you're repeatedly posting irrelevant links thinking they're some kind of gotcha.
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111
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Post by 111 on Feb 17, 2022 11:13:01 GMT
You asked why not wait until "after getting the next generation of vaccines" - people have answered by pointing out the idea that any "next generation" (SSD-enabled but a bugger to get hold of presumably?) vaccines are coming at all is entirely hypothetical, let alone when, how effective they would be, who they would be suitable for, what the side effects would be, what the cost would be etc. etc.
All of which you've completely ignored, in favour of telling other people they must think they know more than the researchers involved and are not engaging in a proper discussion.
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スコットランド
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Post by スコットランド on Feb 17, 2022 11:20:12 GMT
You asked why not wait until "after getting the next generation of vaccines" - people have answered by pointing out the idea that any "next generation" (SSD-enabled but a bugger to get hold of presumably?) vaccines are coming at all is entirely hypothetical, let alone when, how effective they would be, who they would be suitable for, what the side effects would be, what the cost would be etc. etc. All of which you've completely ignored, in favour of telling other people they must think they know more than the researchers involved and are not engaging in a proper discussion. Not sure if entirely hypothetical is fair when clinical trials are starting, yes, no guarantees but it's not necessarily pie in the sky stuff. www.biospace.com/article/united-states-army-begins-human-trials-of-pan-coronavirus-vaccine/
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richardiox
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Post by richardiox on Feb 17, 2022 11:27:51 GMT
It's not pie in the sky stuff but similarly not something to underpin public health policy on at this point in the pandemic with the huge levels of population immunity most places now have.
Again, not sure what you're advocating for. "Don't let it rip" is unspecific. You could argue for the most basic measures like mandatory mask wearing...but during Omicron, places that had those measures in place had just as high rates of infection compared to those that didn't. So then you move to tougher measures, permenantly, based on hypothetical "what if's".
Do you think if a really nasty immunity evasive variant took hold that governments wouldn't bring back more restrictions, with public support? We're talking about the hear and now, post Omicron and with populations having 90%+ levels of immunity.
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111
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Post by 111 on Feb 17, 2022 11:34:30 GMT
I... really don't know/care at exactly what point in a scientific research project it makes most semantic sense to refer to the results as hypothetical or not. You can change "entirely hypothetical" to "unknown" if it helps you absorb the other 99% of the post and not get distracted by an irrelevance.
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スコットランド
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Post by スコットランド on Feb 17, 2022 12:40:10 GMT
It's not pie in the sky stuff but similarly not something to underpin public health policy on at this point in the pandemic with the huge levels of population immunity most places now have. Again, not sure what you're advocating for. "Don't let it rip" is unspecific. You could argue for the most basic measures like mandatory mask wearing...but during Omicron, places that had those measures in place had just as high rates of infection compared to those that didn't. So then you move to tougher measures, permenantly, based on hypothetical "what if's". Do you think if a really nasty immunity evasive variant took hold that governments wouldn't bring back more restrictions, with public support? We're talking about the hear and now, post Omicron and with populations having 90%+ levels of immunity. I'm suggesting (as many other actual experts are, not just a Scottish twat on a forum) that we should keep the low human cost measures going and try and protect the vulnerable. Getting rid of absolutely everything in the middle of winter seems unnecessarily, why not wait till Spring? Also, the whole yo-yoing of measures doesn't seem the best way to handle something that will be here for years. There will be agreement here obviously, so no point continuing, I hope to god you're all correct as I want nothing more than to get back to "normal".
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Post by dfunked on Feb 17, 2022 12:49:22 GMT
*Calls someone a twat*
THERES NO POINT IN ARGUING THO!
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Frog
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Post by Frog on Feb 17, 2022 14:45:57 GMT
Ecosse, you are doing the ecosse thing again. Might be good for you to swerve the thread for a few days.
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H-alphaFox
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Post by H-alphaFox on Feb 17, 2022 14:48:18 GMT
I've mentioned in passing this podcast but truly think this is one of the best sources around. They are short(10 mins) and informative and easy to understand, certainly there are worse people to get advice from than Dr Norman Swan. www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/coronacast/I do need to catch up on them though and sure it's Australiacentric but the advice is still sound.
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111
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Post by 111 on Feb 17, 2022 14:49:55 GMT
He's got as far as redefining winter - I'm almost curious to see how far this is going to go.
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スコットランド
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Post by スコットランド on Feb 17, 2022 15:02:10 GMT
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H-alphaFox
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Post by H-alphaFox on Feb 17, 2022 15:07:17 GMT
lol I'm going to listen to that one and some others in a little while. But I'd take his advice over any governments and he often does not agree when measures are being relaxed so quickly.
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スコットランド
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Post by スコットランド on Feb 17, 2022 15:13:34 GMT
lol I'm going to listen to that one and some others in a little while. But I'd take his advice over any governments and he often does not agree when measures are being relaxed so quickly. Poor guy doesn't realise how simple it all is, his talk of different scenarios is just silly, the very idea that it won't play out like "every other respiratory virus that has hit humanity" is risible, his most likely scenario has no sunlit uplands or anything! Send him this url to help the poor fucker out FFS.
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Post by 😎 on Feb 17, 2022 15:15:16 GMT
Can do without the passive aggressive “my view is the right view” tone from everyone thanks.
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111
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Post by 111 on Feb 17, 2022 15:27:18 GMT
Except just like every link you've posted yourself, it agrees no more with your argument than with any of the other arguments in this thread. I mean we've all heard of confirmation bias but this seems to go even further - it's as if you physically don't see/hear the parts you don't already agree with when going through these things.
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Lizard
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Post by Lizard on Feb 19, 2022 4:19:17 GMT
The protest at parliament over here has entered its twelfth day and is clearly not ending anytime soon, especially as yesterday the police decided that they won't do anything for the moment: www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/461801/enforcement-action-against-parliament-protesters-could-lead-to-violence-coster and www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300521075/police-seemingly-cede-control-to-protesters-who-are-now-controlling-access-to-parliament-grounds-adding-vehicles?rm=aThe police are claiming that de-escalation is the only way to end the protest peacefully, that going in hard would be counter-productive, especially given that many of the selfish cunts protesting have brought their children who are effectively meat shields. I get the police approach, but it's pretty pathetic that they let it get out of control almost straight away, and now local residents have to pay the price. Presumably they and other taxpayers will pay the price of the clean up afterwards too. More and more vehicles are blocking the streets around parliament, completely fucking local businesses and people who live and work nearby. Although most who work nearby (including me) have been told to WFH indefinitely, especially as the protesters are abusive towards public servants and keep trying to get into their offices. They've closed the uni and some of the courts too. The police tried a carrot-and-stick approach to move the vehicles earlier in the week: the offered free parking under the sports stadium, and said that if protesters don't move their vehicles there soon that they would be towed. But, it turns out the police have no tow trucks of their own, and that the local towing companies are either sympathetic, or have received death threats from the protesters. So the police have done pretty much nothing and now look like utter muppets. Unsurprisingly similar protests have popped up all over the country, with a similar mix of crystal-fucking hippies, alt-right loons, actual neo-Nazis, libertarian smooth-brains, Christian dipshits and those who are clearly mentally ill or addicted to meth. All of these 'peaceful' protests include plenty of people threatening, abusing and spitting at anyone who wears a mask, or any nearby businesses that ask them to show their vaccine passes. What a fucking shitshow. This YT channel has a daily livestream: www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQlisz23104&ab_channel=DavidPalmer
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Post by Dougs on Feb 19, 2022 6:13:30 GMT
What a mess. What sort of restrictions are in place currently?
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Youthist
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Post by Youthist on Feb 19, 2022 8:30:38 GMT
There are no restrictions in the UK, and excess deaths and hospitalisations and pressure on hospitals is at a very low level and improving each day. This is a good thing for society.
Hang on let’s looks at loads of threads online about how we are all doomed in the future though.
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