111
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Post by 111 on Feb 16, 2022 22:11:27 GMT
Personally I'm happy to keep wearing a mask in shops/trains etc., and I would be perfectly happy for it to remain law to do so, because so what. It is worth nothing though that "does X have advantages" is not exactly the same thing as "should not doing X be punishable by law". Denmark removed their restrictions, not on the basis of "there's no advantage to them", but on the basis of "the threat is no longer sufficient to justify having emergency laws in place about it". The idea that there's a threshold for being able to make something illegal is not a bad principle...
Thompson: Why lift restrictions now? Why not wait until the Omicron wave is over in a few weeks or a month?
Petersen: In order for the Danish government to keep restrictions in place, the disease has to be classified as a threat to the critical functions of society - and we couldn’t make the case that this poses a societal threat. That’s why we decided to lift all restrictions, including the mask mandate, effective February 1.
It’s important to be clear that waiting to remove restrictions is not a cost-free decision. A pandemic is not just a public-health disaster. It affects all parts of society. It has consequences for economic activity, for people’s well-being, and for their sense of freedom. Pandemic restrictions put on pause fundamental democratic rights. If there’s a critical threat, that pause might be legitimate. But there is an obligation to remove those restrictions quickly when the threat is no longer critical. So, from a purely epidemic perspective, it might have made sense to extend Denmark’s restrictions another two weeks to ensure that we are on the other side of the Omicron peak. But that decision would have come with cost too. Waiting is not free.
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Post by Reviewer on Feb 16, 2022 22:12:00 GMT
The term endemic has nothing to do with the impact on vulnerable people, it just means it’s everywhere and persists without being reintroduced.
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Tomo
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Post by Tomo on Feb 16, 2022 22:25:50 GMT
So much endless arguing in this thread. Is this what user Deleted would've wanted? Yeah this thread is regularly a bonfire, although I actually agree with Ecosse for once. So perhaps throw me on a bonfire, it's for the best.
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Post by GigaChad Sigma. on Feb 16, 2022 22:47:27 GMT
No he is arguing that as soon as you stop them it starts to spread. Having them early before vaccines was sensible but there comes a stage where you have to try and return to normality. Yeah no disagreement there. But honk said that NZ was now undermining the whole restrictions argument. I'm struggling to understand what exactly is being undermined here. They've loosened up restrictions as the situation is in a far more manageable place than it was, with a highly vaccinated population and a milder form of the virus. In honks replies he's implied that their cases are going to explode despite all their best efforts, but it seems to be pretty manageable to me.
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Post by unrealkilla on Feb 16, 2022 22:53:04 GMT
Does anyone know anyone who has like, gone a bit mental because of the pressures of the pandemic? Maybe they had existing underlying mental health issues or whatever, but have really gone mental?
I ask because there's at least 3 people in my life who have gone completely batshit insane. 1 is a small business owner and owned 2 bars in town. Now all his staff have left him, he's turned one bar into a really weird sandwich and shake shop, he makes insanely stupid business decisions and he's now a gibbering wreck waiting for the bailiffs to turn up. And at least 2 others who have gone nuts.
I mean, I know things got a bit mental and people were acting erratic sometimes during the pandemic, myself included I'm sure. But this is like a step further, like they've gone really toxic inside and now restrictions are lifting, it's like going back to normal has terrified them, and so they insulate themselves cutting people off even partners and family.
I'm a bit worried about them.
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cubby
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Post by cubby on Feb 16, 2022 22:56:05 GMT
@ honk
Just to be clear, are you saying that NZ is going to have an insane death toll now as a result of them easing restrictions?
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Post by Dougs on Feb 16, 2022 23:15:39 GMT
Probably not insane, but the death rate will rise. Just far less than it would have done had they not put the restrictions in place until a)a high percentage of the population had been vaccinated and b) a milder strain emerged. Load's point is that NZ can't continue to be as restricted as before.
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cubby
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Post by cubby on Feb 16, 2022 23:17:10 GMT
I'm not sure that is his point, but oh well.
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スコットランド
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Post by スコットランド on Feb 16, 2022 23:33:55 GMT
Yeah no disagreement there. But honk said that NZ was now undermining the whole restrictions argument. I'm struggling to understand what exactly is being undermined here. They've loosened up restrictions as the situation is in a far more manageable place than it was, with a highly vaccinated population and a milder form of the virus. In honks replies he's implied that their cases are going to explode despite all their best efforts, but it seems to be pretty manageable to me. Yeah, as a comparison Switzerland has 18x the number of cases pro capita and it was twice that a week or so again. UK deaths pro capita currently 230 times greater than NZ.
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Post by elstoof on Feb 17, 2022 5:53:17 GMT
European nation loosens restrictions while cases continue to drop - ermagerd we’re all doomed!
NZ loosens restrictions and cases rise exponentially - akshully it’s manageable with a vaccinated cohort yah
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2022 6:41:28 GMT
I wouldnt say cases going up in NZ means restrictions weren't needed. The restrictions early on still saved millions of lives while we waited for vaccines and treatments to become available. The vast majority of those cases in NZ will be a lot milder than they would have been if allowed to hit a population with no immunity.
Restrictions now are pointless though. All it does is delay the inevitable of people getting it. Better to get now while the vaccines still offer protection and start to build natural immunity in the population.
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Post by Dougs on Feb 17, 2022 6:47:26 GMT
Indeed.
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mcmonkeyplc
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Post by mcmonkeyplc on Feb 17, 2022 7:50:28 GMT
I still haven't had it though!
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Post by Dougs on Feb 17, 2022 7:52:36 GMT
So now is the time to get it, as Decks says.
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スコットランド
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Post by スコットランド on Feb 17, 2022 8:02:19 GMT
Why is now the time rather than say, after getting the next generation of vaccines?
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Post by elstoof on Feb 17, 2022 8:05:04 GMT
Because vaccines are always going to be several steps behind the viruses evolution
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geefe
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Post by geefe on Feb 17, 2022 8:05:37 GMT
Because the next generation of vaccines will make you a 6G receiver
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Post by dfunked on Feb 17, 2022 8:11:03 GMT
Are you guys still prattling on?
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スコットランド
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Post by スコットランド on Feb 17, 2022 8:17:12 GMT
Because vaccines are always going to be several steps behind the viruses evolution I really don’t think it’s that simple.
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スコットランド
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Post by スコットランド on Feb 17, 2022 8:18:23 GMT
Are any of the lEtItRiP crew not yet infected?
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Post by elstoof on Feb 17, 2022 8:20:48 GMT
It is, the vaccine that got rushed out was targeting the original covid, hence the reduced protection against omicron. They’re only just doing clinical trials for a vaccine tailored towards omicron, by the time that’s done we’ll be a few more letter of the Greek alphabet, meanwhile anyone that actually had omicron will have had an immune response against actual omicron and have better immunity than the old vaccine provided
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スコットランド
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Post by スコットランド on Feb 17, 2022 8:21:08 GMT
I just called all the companies working on future vaccines targeting not just the spike protein and aiming to be far more resistant to upcoming variants that they’re wasting their time because Elstoof said so . They’ve all now been cancelled, if only someone had told them earlier…
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Post by elstoof on Feb 17, 2022 8:22:30 GMT
Don’t act thicker than you are, no one is saying the things you’re claiming
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Post by elstoof on Feb 17, 2022 8:23:37 GMT
There’s never been a vaccine that’s tailored towards “future variants” of any virus, it’s impossible to predict how it will mutate
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Post by TheSaint on Feb 17, 2022 8:25:49 GMT
Surely we have no guarantee that omicron infection will provide any protection against the next dominant variant so the idea that now is the time to catch it doesn’t hold up.
I think I’ll stick to hoping my booster offers some protection and continue to do my best to avoid it.
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Post by Dougs on Feb 17, 2022 8:26:51 GMT
Or even which strain will dominate (see flu vaccine). Actually catching Covid demystifies it a lot. You know how your body is going to react. I was as cautious as the next person before vaccines, but after, I see little point in maintaining restrictions. I'd probably still keep masks but that's about it, mostly to reduce viral load.
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111
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Post by 111 on Feb 17, 2022 8:27:12 GMT
I wouldn't base choices around a hypothetical future vaccine that may never exist and even if it did you don't know who it will be given to.
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Post by elstoof on Feb 17, 2022 8:30:12 GMT
Having caught omicron will provide better resistance against any of its descendants than the vaccine will, we still don’t know how the dominant strain takes hold as the coronavirus doesn’t follow the same linear path as flu does
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technoish
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Post by technoish on Feb 17, 2022 8:49:59 GMT
So far all evidence points towards personal immunity from having had COVID + being fully vaccinated and boosted as the best protection.
Nobody knows anything for sure about future hypothetical strains of covid. But you have to make decisions based on what you do know, and an assessment of the risks.
The evidence right now is that omicron can be lived with by vast majority, that those that are at higher risk get good protection from vaccines and the new drugs we have to treat bad cases, and that we expect the existing vaccinations, drugs, and natural immunitty to continue to provide protection for future variants (remember the vaccines are not based on omicron, they are based on earlier strain). This leaves those with immuno issues in a bad place for sure, but there isn't a way to solve that problem right now that doesn't have higher adverse impacts.
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Post by Dougs on Feb 17, 2022 8:53:49 GMT
Yes, the anti- virals will also help the more vulnerable.
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