Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2022 19:49:50 GMT
I wear one now primarily in the hope of pissing off any nearby conspiracy fuckwits.
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cubby
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Post by cubby on Feb 16, 2022 20:02:25 GMT
Wearing masks has been fairly typical in Asian cities for decades*.
I just find it a bit pathetic how here a significant proportion of the population see it as the height of inconvenience or even oppression, when really it's being considerate of others.
* I remember my dad came back from a business trip to Japan in the 90s and after that whenever he'd get a cold he'd wear a mask if he had to visit relatives
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Post by GigaChad Sigma. on Feb 16, 2022 20:05:42 GMT
It really is so utterly fucking pathetic to come out with "We can't do Lockdowns forever", "Stay and hide indoors forever" etc. when someone is not arguing for that but suggesting that we shouldn't rush into getting rid of every single measure as well as giving up on testing properly and gathering data. It's mental. What's the benefit? It's endemic. The majority of those measurements are a delay mechanism not a solution. We have vaccination levels at a suitable level. The cost of restrictions now outweighs any benefits.
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スコットランド
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Post by スコットランド on Feb 16, 2022 20:10:02 GMT
Pointless arguing with someone who has such a simplistic understanding of the situation we're in. Good luck with everything anyway 👍 What is simplistic about my understanding? Forget it, keep going with your dismissal of science and blind optimism, I'll listen to what epidemiologists say.
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スコットランド
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Post by スコットランド on Feb 16, 2022 20:12:46 GMT
It really is so utterly fucking pathetic to come out with "We can't do Lockdowns forever", "Stay and hide indoors forever" etc. when someone is not arguing for that but suggesting that we shouldn't rush into getting rid of every single measure as well as giving up on testing properly and gathering data. It's mental. What's the benefit? It's endemic. The majority of those measurements are a delay mechanism not a solution. We have vaccination levels at a suitable level. The cost of restrictions now outweighs any benefits. As I already posted. www.science.org/content/article/it-time-live-covid-19-some-scientists-warn-endemic-delusionAndersen, however, calls keeping hospitals from overflowing “a pretty low bar.” Bringing down overall cases, and thereby reducing transmission, remains key, he argues, to minimizing risks of Long Covid and protecting the elderly and immunocompromised from infection.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2022 20:17:23 GMT
Remember when it was blind optimism to say that Omicron wasn't going to wipe the health system out and that the numbers would come down rapidly after a short spike. How did that one play out again?
And yet you still continue to hand pick the absolute worst outlooks. Mainly because you're still wetting your pants about long covid.
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Frog
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Post by Frog on Feb 16, 2022 20:20:56 GMT
Science isn't the only consideration, there is also the massive financial impact and people's lives being destroyed. That's without the mental health angle as well. You are lucky that your life isn't one of those being destroyed and can just sit there and listen to the most insular view from a scientist.
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スコットランド
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Post by スコットランド on Feb 16, 2022 20:22:32 GMT
Remember when it was blind optimism to say that Omicron wasn't going to wipe the health system out and that the numbers would come down rapidly after a short spike. How did that one play out again? And yet you still continue to hand pick the absolute worst outlooks. Mainly because you're still wetting your pants about long covid. I’m not hand-picking anything, all the scientists are now saying “We don’t know what’s coming next, better to hang fire a bit on removing all restrictions.” You, somehow, know something they don’t.
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スコットランド
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Post by スコットランド on Feb 16, 2022 20:23:20 GMT
Science isn't the only consideration, there is also the massive financial impact and people's lives being destroyed. That's without the mental health angle as well. You are lucky that your life isn't one of those being destroyed and can just sit there and listen to the most insular view from a scientist. What life is being destroyed by continuing to wear masks indoors?
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Post by elstoof on Feb 16, 2022 20:23:48 GMT
The problem with scientific study is they have a very narrow focus limited to the scope of the study, no other factors are considered. Of course reducing transmission is going to be a benefit to health, that’s stating the fucking obvious and can be said about any illness that ever existed, you can’t operate society based on that one determination though. When your doctor tells you to get plenty of rest, that’s all well and good until you get home and there’s 3 kids to care for, mortgage to pay for, food to buy, clothes to wash etc, the science doesn’t tell you how to get all that done does it. That why we are advised by the research rather than let that one thing dictate all policy
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Post by GigaChad Sigma. on Feb 16, 2022 20:24:42 GMT
New Zealand undermines the entire restriction argument.
Zero cases and zero transmission for months on end. Now they have the highest number of cases since it all started.
You can insist people isolate or wfh, limit travel and public gatherings for years. The moment you stop numbers go up.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2022 20:25:02 GMT
Remember when it was blind optimism to say that Omicron wasn't going to wipe the health system out and that the numbers would come down rapidly after a short spike. How did that one play out again? And yet you still continue to hand pick the absolute worst outlooks. Mainly because you're still wetting your pants about long covid. I’m not hand-picking anything, all the scientists are now saying “We don’t know what’s coming next, better to hang fire a bit on removing all restrictions.” You, somehow, know something they don’t. "All the scientists" are not saying that at all.
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Frog
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Post by Frog on Feb 16, 2022 20:25:48 GMT
None, and nobody is stopping anyone that wants to.
(In response to masks)
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スコットランド
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Post by スコットランド on Feb 16, 2022 20:26:52 GMT
None, and nobody is stopping anyone that wants to. Yes but the message is that it’s no longer needed.
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スコットランド
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Post by スコットランド on Feb 16, 2022 20:28:11 GMT
I’m not hand-picking anything, all the scientists are now saying “We don’t know what’s coming next, better to hang fire a bit on removing all restrictions.” You, somehow, know something they don’t. "All the scientists" are not saying that at all. Show me the epidemiologist backing you utter assurance that future variants will be weaker and I’ll show 5 that say “we don’t know”.
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cubby
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Post by cubby on Feb 16, 2022 20:28:46 GMT
New Zealand undermines the entire restriction argument. They have had 53 deaths throughout the whole pandemic. 53. How is that undermining the restriction argument?
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Post by GigaChad Sigma. on Feb 16, 2022 20:33:19 GMT
Because it was easily managed when cases were in the dozens.
Now cases are in the hundreds and on the way to thousands.
Expect that death rate to increase.
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cubby
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Post by cubby on Feb 16, 2022 20:37:31 GMT
Well for a simple comparison 192 people died in the UK last week. We had nearly 4 times their entire fatalities over the last 2 years just last week, and that's been a pretty good week for us.
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スコットランド
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Post by スコットランド on Feb 16, 2022 20:39:33 GMT
Because it was easily managed when cases were in the dozens. Now cases are in the hundreds and on the way to thousands. Expect that death rate to increase. Their pro capita death rate will always be tiny as they didn’t relax things a bit till they had a highly vaccinated population.
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Post by GigaChad Sigma. on Feb 16, 2022 20:39:45 GMT
Sure a population of 67m vs 5m.
As the UK numbers decrease NZ's will be going up.
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cubby
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Post by cubby on Feb 16, 2022 20:41:13 GMT
I don't think this is the slam dunk argument you think it is.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2022 20:41:29 GMT
"All the scientists" are not saying that at all. Show me the epidemiologist backing you utter assurance that future variants will be weaker and I’ll show 5 that say “we don’t know”. I've never once said that future variants will be weaker. Natural immunity through circulation of the virus will make us stronger against future variants though. Like what has happened with every other respiratory virus that has hit humanity.
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Post by GigaChad Sigma. on Feb 16, 2022 20:45:55 GMT
I don't think this is the slam dunk argument you think it is. A country with the ability to pursue an elimination strategy (now abandoned) meant cases were extremely low. Cases low - deaths low. Now cases are at record highs. More cases- more deaths.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2022 20:47:20 GMT
Well for a simple comparison 192 people died in the UK last week. We had nearly 4 times their entire fatalities over the last 2 years just last week, and that's been a pretty good week for us. An argument that would have been relevant 2 years ago. I was one of the strongest voices for restrictions and stuff in the beginning but people seem to be struggling to understand what a different situation we're in now. The control the virus ship sailed a long time ago.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2022 20:49:14 GMT
So much endless arguing in this thread. Is this what user Deleted would've wanted?
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cubby
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Post by cubby on Feb 16, 2022 20:51:56 GMT
I'm confused. What's the argument then? I thought honk was arguing that NZ shouldn't have had restrictions in the first place?
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Frog
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Post by Frog on Feb 16, 2022 20:59:59 GMT
No he is arguing that as soon as you stop them it starts to spread. Having them early before vaccines was sensible but there comes a stage where you have to try and return to normality.
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スコットランド
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Post by スコットランド on Feb 16, 2022 21:02:52 GMT
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cubby
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Post by cubby on Feb 16, 2022 21:12:08 GMT
No he is arguing that as soon as you stop them it starts to spread. Having them early before vaccines was sensible but there comes a stage where you have to try and return to normality. Yeah no disagreement there. But honk said that NZ was now undermining the whole restrictions argument. I'm struggling to understand what exactly is being undermined here. They've loosened up restrictions as the situation is in a far more manageable place than it was, with a highly vaccinated population and a milder form of the virus. In honks replies he's implied that their cases are going to explode despite all their best efforts, but it seems to be pretty manageable to me.
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Post by Trowel 🏴 on Feb 16, 2022 22:03:10 GMT
What's the benefit? It's endemic. The majority of those measurements are a delay mechanism not a solution. We have vaccination levels at a suitable level. The cost of restrictions now outweighs any benefits. As I already posted. www.science.org/content/article/it-time-live-covid-19-some-scientists-warn-endemic-delusionAndersen, however, calls keeping hospitals from overflowing “a pretty low bar.” Bringing down overall cases, and thereby reducing transmission, remains key, he argues, to minimizing risks of Long Covid and protecting the elderly and immunocompromised from infection.Yes - the term "endemic" has recently been used for the phase where we feel no longer need to have restrictions in our day-to-day lives. This is not endemic in our population while the elderly and vulnerable and disadvantaged remain at risk. Not to mention the continued risk of variants, as well as its status in the rest of the world and the impact on borders.
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