Youthist
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Post by Youthist on Jun 19, 2022 10:02:17 GMT
I see the rhetoric has changed wrt. Ukraine, now NATO talking about how much territory Ukraine have to surrender for Peace, talk of "Ukraine Fatigue". We really are (humans, the West) a bunch of cunts. Even in 2022, you can just invade a country, massacre people, commit war crimes and no-one will do much but give your opponents a few guns if they're lucky, only for a few months before "fatigue" sets in. The article absolutely did not say that. Seems just one person said it - you. But you crack on.
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Youthist
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Post by Youthist on Jun 19, 2022 10:03:08 GMT
And the west has done and is doing a lot more than giving them a few guns. But you are well aware of that.
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Youthist
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Post by Youthist on Jun 19, 2022 10:04:53 GMT
Lockdowns and people supporting and / or sticking to the rules of them went on for a lot longer than a couple of months, in the main / cunts excepted.
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スコットランド
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Post by スコットランド on Jun 19, 2022 10:06:28 GMT
And the west has done and is doing a lot more than giving them a few guns. But you are well aware of that. Hyperbole
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Post by jeepers on Jun 19, 2022 10:09:34 GMT
And the west has done and is doing a lot more than giving them a few guns. But you are well aware of that. Hyperbolea way of speaking or writing that makes someone … sound bigger, better, more, etc. than they are Yup.
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Post by drhickman1983 on Jun 19, 2022 11:22:58 GMT
Throwing out hands up and ceding territory is a dreadful idea. I'd favour intervention. If it leads to world war so be it.
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Post by jeepers on Jun 19, 2022 11:25:33 GMT
Throwing out hands up and ceding territory is a dreadful idea. I'd favour intervention. If it leads to world war so be it. to the “Fuck it. Might as well!” Doctrine.
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Post by drhickman1983 on Jun 19, 2022 11:28:17 GMT
Hey I'm not in charge of policy, but if our best bet is "hope Putin pops his clogs sooner rather than later and hope the next guy is less invady", well, it doesn't really strike me as a great approach.
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geefe
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Post by geefe on Jun 19, 2022 11:44:33 GMT
You've either gotta shit or get off the pot
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スコットランド
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Post by スコットランド on Jun 19, 2022 11:59:54 GMT
As wary as I am of escalation, the whole "don't want to do too much to anger Putin" mentality when appeasing him has allowed him to repeatedly invade other countries, slaughter innocents, he's now clearly fucking mental trying to reduce as much as he can of Ukraine to rubble. He's banking on exactly this fear.
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Post by jeepers on Jun 19, 2022 12:17:27 GMT
It’s the “clearly fucking mental” part that makes me think escalating to WW3 might not be the best approach open to the world.
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geefe
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Post by geefe on Jun 19, 2022 12:20:07 GMT
He might be clearly mental but even nutty dictators have people around them, ready to stick the knife in.
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Post by skalpadda on Jun 19, 2022 12:20:09 GMT
How is the war going anyway? I thought the Russian army was getting clobbered. How much longer can they even keep on fighting (and the Ukrainian army too, for that matter)? They were getting clobbered when they threw a bunch of disorganised forces in on multiple fronts trying to take the whole country. Now they're focusing only on Donbas in the east and consolidating what they've taken in the south, and they're grinding forward very slowly and using overwhelming artillery to advance. Ukraine seems very reliant on foreign weapons and supplies now and they don't seem to have enough to really push back, and the zeal and willingness to fight for the east of the country has always seemed a lot weaker. As far as I can tell Russia isn't scoring any decisive victories and they're moving very slowly, but they aren't being completely stopped or pushed back. Both sides seem to be taking very bad losses now. It looks like this could go on for a very long time.
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スコットランド
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Post by スコットランド on Jun 19, 2022 12:26:01 GMT
Ukraine have used half of their equipment supposedly, I imagine this will result in Russia fully taking the Donbas, Zelensky being forced to sign a peace treaty then all sanctions to disappear until next time Russia decides top invade, won't have to wait too long.
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dogbot
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Post by dogbot on Jun 19, 2022 13:43:51 GMT
He might be clearly mental but even nutty dictators have people around them, ready to stick the knife in. The only way he gets replaced by someone who isn't as bad or worse is revolution. Russia is nowhere near a revolution.
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Zyrr
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Post by Zyrr on Jun 19, 2022 15:58:00 GMT
Was watching a report on Sky News on Friday night where they were talking to a chap commanding a Company on the front lines in the east. When asked how the equipment donated by Western nations was helping, he said they're being forced to fight a guerrilla war now as almost all of the weaponry that's coming in is for infantry. Problem there is that the Russians have a huge advantage in tanks/artillery/armoured vehicles and the Ukrainians are being pushed back steadily.
He made it very clear that they need more tanks and artillery ASAP. I just don't see many nations being all that interested in sending tanks in the sort of numbers they need - if at all.
Still, if Putin blockades the wheat stuck in Odessa for much longer we're going to start seeing a worldwide food crisis (but particularly in areas where food is hard to come by already as is). If (when) that happens, I can't see NATO sitting on its hands and doing nothing. They'll have to intervene in some way, surely? Even if it's just to guarantee safe passage for cargo vessels in the black sea.
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Post by Dougs on Jun 19, 2022 18:40:55 GMT
Macron's party loses its majority with gains by left and right. Don't know enough about French politics, is this generally a 2nd term thing?
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Post by skalpadda on Jun 19, 2022 20:25:07 GMT
Macron's party loses its majority with gains by left and right. Don't know enough about French politics, is this generally a 2nd term thing? Macron wouldn't still be president if not for a lot of people biting their tongues and voting against Le Pen rather than for him, so what we see in the parliamentary election is just how little real support his party has. The French left generally feel like Macron and his party threw them under the bus after they got him elected the first time. I read a little French news now and then and looked into why he's so disliked when he seems mostly okay from what we hear internationally. I can sort of see their point. Some of the stuff he wants to do are arguably necessary (like pension reform), but a lot of his politics are pretty far to the right of the centre he claims to occupy, and he's said some really callous things and been very heavy handed in how he's dealt with opposition and protest. Then again the French left seems a bit shit and their right is full of lunatics. They don't have a lot of good choices.
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Post by Danno on Jun 19, 2022 20:28:50 GMT
I read an article about the policing of protests in France - particularly under Macron - in the aftermath of the Champ League fiasco, and it was like a laundry list of Priti Patel's amibitions.
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Post by skalpadda on Jun 19, 2022 20:35:56 GMT
I don't remember the details but one of his personal security guys was also out pretending to be police and beating people up seemingly for fun during the Gilets Jaunes protests.
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Post by tincanrocket on Jun 20, 2022 5:31:20 GMT
I don't remember the details but one of his personal security guys was also out pretending to be police and beating people up seemingly for fun during the Gilets Jaunes protests. That was his "alleged" boyfriend, wasn't it? Macron's essentially Blair, but the French have seen through him quicker than we did with Phony Tony
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スコットランド
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Post by スコットランド on Jun 20, 2022 8:23:22 GMT
Also. being convinced that you're the smartest person in the country, having the ego to match this belief and as a result, condescending everyone, displaying a special type of arrogance, tends to turn people off.
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zephro
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Post by zephro on Jun 20, 2022 9:55:52 GMT
Then again the French left seems a bit shit and their right is full of lunatics. They don't have a lot of good choices. This is my basic impression. This all said Ensemble are still by far the largest party, they've got what double the members of the left alliance? La Pen's lot also had a serious jump in this election.
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Post by skalpadda on Jun 20, 2022 11:51:48 GMT
Also. being convinced that you're the smartest person in the country, having the go to match this belief and as a result, condescending everyone, displaying a special type of arrogance, tends to turn people off. What I've come across are things like his speech at the opening of some business startup thing with "Station" in its name where he made an analogy saying "a [train] station is a place where you meet both people who succeed and people who are nothing". Even with the most generous interpretation, dividing people into "des gens qui reussissent et des gens qui ne sont rien" is a really ugly thing for a president to do. He seems to have a history of these "mépris de classe" moments and there are quite a few examples of him seemingly including all working class people in the "people who are nothing" category. He likes to talk about "Le premier de cordée", the first on a line of climbers on a rope line, when defending tax cuts for rich people. Basically saying that the rich are the ones who pull everyone forward with them and if you "throw rocks" at them everyone will fall. It's just defending trickle-down economics, and in a way that dismisses everyone who isn't the first in line as irrelevant.
He reminds me a lot of our right wing politicians here in Sweden.
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malek86
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Post by malek86 on Jun 20, 2022 13:23:19 GMT
On a side note, we are seeing even Germany reopening their coal plants. And you know others will follow.
How far back do you reckon this war is going to push any plans to reduce the world's carbon footprint?
You'd think this would actually be a good chance to decrease the dependance on fossil fuel and increase the use of renewables, but that might take a long time, and governments have to think about the short term too.
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スコットランド
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Post by スコットランド on Jun 20, 2022 13:40:40 GMT
Austria restarting coal plants also. We're fucked because humans are arseholes.
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Post by skalpadda on Jun 20, 2022 15:47:27 GMT
A couple of countries in central Europe firing up a few coal plants for while isn't going to make a difference in the grand scheme of things as far as warming is concerned. It's a pretty horrendous look though, and there's always the risk of more backsliding. A pretty clear illustration of the folly of Germany closing down nuclear power and making themselves dependent on Russian fossil fuels as well.
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geefe
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Post by geefe on Jun 20, 2022 15:54:08 GMT
Why did Germany stop nuclear? Of all the countries that should do nuclear, Germany is most trustworthy.
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Post by Jambowayoh on Jun 20, 2022 15:56:32 GMT
No one who speaks German could be an evil man.
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dogbot
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Post by dogbot on Jun 20, 2022 16:27:25 GMT
We want our cake twice, eh? If we want [everyone] to stop buying Russian fuels, then there needs to be an alternative, even it's a short term one. We don't have a ready to roll renewables infrastructure and we can't put one in before winter. And, it's a bit of a stretch to think Europe having a few extra coal plants will massively contribute to global warming (it will somewhat, everything does), when India and China still burn more than the rest of the world ever did and have no intention of stopping.
With that in mind and appreciating that it's not an ideal situation, if it reduces Russia's market for oil and gas (which still brings them more than enough every day to fund "special military operations" for decades to come), then it's a bonus. Those sales don't affect the average (poor) Russian much, but it hits the oligarchs in the pocket and losing the support of his rich backers is going to cause Putin problems in the long run.
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