apollo
Junior Member
Posts: 1,674
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Post by apollo on Oct 23, 2024 10:20:06 GMT
There is also just the aspect of people don't have the time to play everything and ultimately that's what any of these games are competing for, our time. I personally don't see the point anymore in buying stuff at any price for it to sit on a backlog, I'd much rather add it to my wishlist since that's free. Then when I have some time to play it, either I'm near to completing whatever game I'm playing or maybe a just fancy a little break on something new then that's when I'll pick it up. with gamepass and other services like that and free games on epic, people have access to so many games, they can wait for a price drop or hope its on gp or epic at some point |
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Post by rhaegyr on Oct 23, 2024 10:21:59 GMT
Exactly. I'm just getting round to games I bought months, if not years ago.
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Post by drhickman1983 on Oct 23, 2024 10:24:37 GMT
I'm quite bad at playing games on release.
I don't have gamepass but with a few exceptions it'll be years before I get to anything, after buying it on discount, so I'm very much part of the problem.
I just bought Forza Horizon 4 a month before it's going to be delisted, for example.
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Post by Bill in the rain on Oct 23, 2024 10:30:53 GMT
Me too, but that applies for every game, so I don't think it'd hurt this game more than any other.
If more people were excited about the promise of the game, more people would probably have bought it on release. Something about it didn't grab enough people.
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Frog
Full Member
Posts: 7,267
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Post by Frog on Oct 23, 2024 10:31:39 GMT
The Division broke the record for the fastest selling game in a new franchise in its first week. It was a huge success for ubisoft!
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Ulythium
Full Member
Lily-livered
Posts: 7,073
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Post by Ulythium on Oct 23, 2024 10:33:01 GMT
Frog Yeah, that one was my bad 
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Post by drhickman1983 on Oct 23, 2024 10:35:49 GMT
Me too, but that applies for every game, so I don't think it'd hurt this game more than any other. If more people were excited about the promise of the game, more people would probably have bought it on release. Something about it didn't grab enough people. For sure, but then it just goes back to companies needing unrealistic sales to justify any project to shareholders who ultimately won't care about creative output, only the bottom line. |
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Post by crashV👀d👀 on Oct 23, 2024 10:43:14 GMT
Yay, shareholders \o/
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Post by Jambowayoh on Oct 23, 2024 10:44:21 GMT
Me too, but that applies for every game, so I don't think it'd hurt this game more than any other. If more people were excited about the promise of the game, more people would probably have bought it on release. Something about it didn't grab enough people. For sure, but then it just goes back to companies needing unrealistic sales to justify any project to shareholders who ultimately won't care about creative output, only the bottom line. That's true to a point but again if you're calling out for a particular type of game to be made and no one's buying it then what's to be done? Keep greenlighting sequels? I think we forget how many games are available these days and how many small studios and indie devs go down the toilet because no one is buying their stuff, we all hear about the indie success stories but they're a drop in the ocean. |
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Post by rhaegyr on Oct 23, 2024 10:44:46 GMT
Someone said it earlier in the thread but it bears repeating - we're not spoiled for good to great 2D Metroidvanias nowadays and most of them can be found under twenty quid, if not a tenner.
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Post by drhickman1983 on Oct 23, 2024 10:55:51 GMT
If people aren't buying games in general it's an oversaturated market then.
In the specific case of big companies who are beholden to turning a profit, then yes the answer from a shareholder point of view is to keep green lighting sequels if they're big selling projects and, more recently, remakes as they will, at least in the short term, get better results.
Indie companies who aren't publicly traded don't have that option and have more freedom to pursue their artistic vision, but if that vision is just another metroidvania in an oversaturated market it seems doomed to fail unless it has a unique hook or can become a meme somehow.
Might have just totally misunderstood you point tbh
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nazo
Junior Member
Posts: 1,298
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Post by nazo on Oct 23, 2024 11:03:52 GMT
Ubisoft ended up loving the smell of their own farts! They used to be among my favorite developers taking risks: Sands of Time, Splinter Cell, Beyond Good and Evil, Assassin's Creed (enjoyed the original and loved Ezio's story, then Black Flag), Rayman Origins/Legends were all fucking great, had fun with randoms on the Division and while Rainbow 6 and Brothers in Arms aren't my thing, they were considered to be good/great. Nowadays, they just shove their tried (or is it tired) and tested open world formula on anything and call it a day, then complain why people are not lapping it up... That's the opposite of what's happened here though. They've produced a high-quality game that doesn't follow their cookie-cutter formula and it hasn't sold. It's pretty clear what the market actually wants. |
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Tomo
Junior Member
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Post by Tomo on Oct 23, 2024 11:18:52 GMT
They also produced a high budget cookie-cutter game which didn't sell well, so to me it seems to me the market DGAF about Ubisoft games anymore.
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Tuffty
Junior Member
Posts: 3,600
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Post by Tuffty on Oct 23, 2024 11:20:33 GMT
Someone said it earlier in the thread but it bears repeating - we're not spoiled for good to great 2D Metroidvanias nowadays and most of them can be found under twenty quid, if not a tenner. There are a lot of great Metroidvania games, this is true. What's also true is that amongst all those great games, Lost Crown stands out. If you like that genre, there's a lot to like about Lost Crown and so comes with a strong recommendation. |
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Post by zisssou on Oct 23, 2024 11:21:35 GMT
The real problem here is that we don't even know what we want anymore.
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Tuffty
Junior Member
Posts: 3,600
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Post by Tuffty on Oct 23, 2024 11:23:18 GMT
According to a report in EG the team have been dispersed to other parts of the company rather than being laid off so that's something at least. Off to the Ass Creed mines you go |
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Post by dangerousdave on Oct 23, 2024 11:24:40 GMT
The Mario Rabbids games undersold too and they were also excellent.
I say undersold, they’re roughly 13m and 5m copies sold, but I’d imagine more than half of those numbers were at the Ubisoft discount price.
Did Blacklist sell well? That’s my favourite Splinter Cell, after Chaos Theory. Or maybe it’s my favourite? Either way, excellent and also the last of its series.
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Tomo
Junior Member
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Post by Tomo on Oct 23, 2024 11:24:48 GMT
We had this discussion in another thread I think, but I haven't bought Lost Crown because I don't want the Ubibloat on my PC. My data and slavish devotion is exclusively for Lord Gaben.
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Post by rhaegyr on Oct 23, 2024 11:25:29 GMT
Someone said it earlier in the thread but it bears repeating - we're not spoiled for good to great 2D Metroidvanias nowadays and most of them can be found under twenty quid, if not a tenner. There are a lot of great Metroidvania games, this is true. What's also true is that amongst all those great games, Lost Crown stands out. If you like that genre, there's a lot to like about Lost Crown and so comes with a strong recommendation. Does it really though? Hollow Knight, Monster Boy, Ori, The Messenger and probably others all have the same if not greater Metacritic/OpenCritic scores. I adore all of them and nothing about Lost Crown in the videos I watched or reviews I read made me think "I need this now". I've no doubt when I eventually get round to it I'll really enjoy it but for £45 at launch it needed to offer something above and beyond the titles I mentioned and I just didn't see it. Edit - I didn't buy Dread (borrowed it) or Ori (Gamepass) for the same reasons. We're spoiled for great Metroidvanias at cheaper prices. |
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Tomo
Junior Member
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Post by Tomo on Oct 23, 2024 11:26:59 GMT
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Post by dfunked on Oct 23, 2024 11:30:45 GMT
rhaegyr - wasn't it £45 at launch?
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Derblington
Junior Member
Did you know I have a girlfriend
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Post by Derblington on Oct 23, 2024 11:32:17 GMT
I would argue that it stands out a lot more than The Messenger, which I've no doubt is great (I own it's, it's on the backlog) but I have it because of word of mouth, not because of the way it looks or was marketed. Lost Crown certainly looks more high value.
Monster Boy too, was... fine? I don't have strong memories of it being particularly stand out. Much more dated than this.
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Post by rhaegyr on Oct 23, 2024 11:33:11 GMT
rhaegyr - wasn't it £45 at launch? Yikes, that's an even tougher sell. It's not the price point on its own that's the issue imo - it's the price in conjunction with the oversaturated genre it launched in. |
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nazo
Junior Member
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Post by nazo on Oct 23, 2024 11:33:12 GMT
Then again, they don't even have it listed in the "Favourite Metrovania?" poll at the bottom of the article. |
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Post by rhaegyr on Oct 23, 2024 11:36:13 GMT
I would argue that it stands out a lot more than The Messenger, which I've no doubt is great (I own it's, it's on the backlog) but I have it because of word of mouth, not because of the way it looks or was marketed. Lost Crown certainly looks more high value. Monster Boy too, was... fine? I don't have strong memories of it being particularly stand out. Much more dated than this. We can argue our individual tastes on certain titles in the genre but the gist of my point was critics and users in general scored all those games the same (if not higher) than Lost Crown which gives the impression it didn't do much above and beyond other titles in the genre to justify the higher price tag. |
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Tuffty
Junior Member
Posts: 3,600
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Post by Tuffty on Oct 23, 2024 11:41:42 GMT
There are a lot of great Metroidvania games, this is true. What's also true is that amongst all those great games, Lost Crown stands out. If you like that genre, there's a lot to like about Lost Crown and so comes with a strong recommendation. Does it really though? Hollow Knight, Monster Boy, Ori, The Messenger and probably others all have the same if not greater Metacritic/OpenCritic scores. I adore all of them and nothing about Lost Crown in the videos I watched or reviews I read made me think "I need this now". I've no doubt when I eventually get round to it I'll really enjoy it but for £35 at launch it needed to offer something above and beyond the titles I mentioned and I just didn't see it. Edit - I didn't buy Dread (borrowed it) or Ori (Gamepass) for the same reasons. We're spoiled for great Metroidvanias at cheaper prices.
Yes it does. Those examples are great in their own way but Lost Crown is a high production game with the best combat since Metroid Dread. It already feels good from the get go, but as you progress getting new movement abilities that you can incorporate into the combat, the amount of player expression and creativity you can do is probably the closest I've seen to a 2D Devil May Cry game. I think that alone can help distinguish it from others because we know at some point combat in games like this can be fun but somewhat limiting, almost superflous towards the end as you're often running past enemies just to clean up the map but here it's a personal joy for me, it feels fantastic. The platforming sections are great too, challenging and the navigation is smooth. It's not perfect, the story is time travel nonsense. It's absolutely one of the games of the year and deserves to be on that list of greats in the genre.
I think I've gone to bat enough for this game in here so I'll just leave it at that. Dunno why, if you're a fan of the genre, you would choose to ignore it despite all the critical acclaim and accounts from people on here who's played it too.
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Aunty Treats
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Delivering tasty treats to the townsfolk
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Post by Aunty Treats on Oct 23, 2024 11:48:15 GMT
The game looks alright in the trailer but the story parts look way too self serious and boring for a Metroidvania. Part of the appeal of 2D/retro games is getting away from all that
I'd be interested in the Mario Rabbids game but the rabbids are hateful. Can't stand them
Rayman Origins/Legends is too squeaky and wacky
Maybe I just don't get French humour
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Post by rhaegyr on Oct 23, 2024 11:49:13 GMT
Except I'm not ignoring it or even talking the game itself down - I'm just commenting on why I think it didn't perofrm sales-wise due to being highly priced in a very competitive genre whilst not reviewing any better or worse than other highly rated (but cheaper) titles in the same genre.
I'm sure I'll love it when I eventually get round to it. Meant to buy it last time it was on sale.
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Tuffty
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Posts: 3,600
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Post by Tuffty on Oct 23, 2024 11:55:58 GMT
The game looks alright in the trailer but the story parts look way too self serious and boring for a Metroidvania. Part of the appeal of 2D/retro games is getting away from all that I would disagree when something like Tales of Kenzera : Zau exists, which is an avenue of the creators expression of grief and loss over the death of his father. In that, the story is very much the highlight. |
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Post by JuniorFE on Oct 23, 2024 11:58:52 GMT
They used to be among my favorite developers taking risks: Sands of Time, Splinter Cell, Beyond Good and Evil, Assassin's Creed (enjoyed the original and loved Ezio's story, then Black Flag), Rayman Origins/Legends were all fucking great, had fun with randoms on the Division and while Rainbow 6 and Brothers in Arms aren't my thing, they were considered to be good/great. Wait, you played Black Flag? I know I finished it, but I'm fairly certain you barely got past the beginning... |
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