MolarAm🔵
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Post by MolarAm🔵 on Aug 15, 2023 12:52:10 GMT
I guess BG3 isn't (yet) going to be on Xbox, so maybe that will be a thing also.
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kal
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Post by kal on Aug 15, 2023 13:47:31 GMT
Yeah, although Sony is still quite a lot bigger in market share to Microsoft.
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Post by skalpadda on Aug 15, 2023 14:22:03 GMT
Unless there's something seriously wrong with Starfield it should do fine. Bethesda gets (often well deserved) flak from RPG enthusiasts, but their audience is gigantic.
I doubt BG3 will have any significant impact on the AAA industry at all. With the possible exception of Obsidian under Microsoft (still more in the AA space) there aren't any studios tied to big publishers that make games even remotely like this. I can't think of any large company I'd even want to see try, unless Bioware miraculously resurrects itself with Deadwolf.
If it's successful enough to help keep these kinds of RPGs relevant and makes enough money to let Larian keep doing their thing that's a good outcome.
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zephro
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Post by zephro on Aug 15, 2023 14:40:42 GMT
It's just sad looking at the carcass that's been left of Bioware.
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Post by Vandelay on Aug 15, 2023 14:43:48 GMT
makes enough money to let Larian keep doing their thing that's a good outcome. I'm guessing Wizard of the Coast are currently trying to work out how much money to throw at Larian to do a BG4 (or something else D&D related).
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Frog
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Post by Frog on Aug 15, 2023 15:07:15 GMT
I think they would do well to give Larian the license to make a modular framework which allowed players to create their own adventures. Another neverwinter nights essentially.
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lukasz
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Post by lukasz on Aug 15, 2023 15:20:38 GMT
makes enough money to let Larian keep doing their thing that's a good outcome. I'm guessing Wizard of the Coast are currently trying to work out how much money to throw at Larian to do a BG4 (or something else D&D related). nwn3 seems like a great candidate.
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Post by ToomuchFluffy on Aug 15, 2023 16:09:03 GMT
I'm sure that's not a bad omen at all
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Post by muddyfunster on Aug 15, 2023 16:12:02 GMT
It's just sad looking at the carcass that's been left of Bioware. They've fallen for sure but carcass maybe a bit harsh. It's not unthinkable that the next Mass Effect or Dragon Age will be good, though I grant you it's hard to feel optimistic. Obviously if you want 90s Bioware back it ain't happening.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2023 16:20:33 GMT
I’m so wary of the new DA and ME entries. Even benefit of the doubt, myself enjoying Andromeda and Inquisition, all the leads of the past games leaving, returning, then leaving again makes it hard to be excited.
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Frog
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Post by Frog on Aug 15, 2023 16:23:10 GMT
I've started a dark urge solo run for when I'm not playing co-op now this is a very different experience. The first time it triggered it made me laugh out loud
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zephro
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Post by zephro on Aug 15, 2023 16:43:25 GMT
It's just sad looking at the carcass that's been left of Bioware. They've fallen for sure but carcass maybe a bit harsh. It's not unthinkable that the next Mass Effect or Dragon Age will be good, though I grant you it's hard to feel optimistic. Obviously if you want 90s Bioware back it ain't happening. Maybe I'm just old now. But the last legit good game they made was Mass Effect 2, which even then I'd much rather play Baldur's Gate 2 again. Dragon Age 2 is a mess, Inquisition did have good writing again but was so dumbed down that it all just felt like a shallow puddle, Mass Effect 3 also a writing mess. I'd genuinely take Baldur's Gate 2 over anything they've done. Though I think I was conflating Black Isle with them somewhat, which still sort of lives on as Obsidian and I love their games. EDIT: also to clarify most my favourite genres that I'd consider good are essentially PC ones. Strategy of all kinds, immersive sims (Dishonoured may have come out on consoles, but System Shock 2, Deus Ex 1, Thief did not), cRPGs of the Black Isle/Obsidian/Larian kind which I guess are playable on consoles but that seems insane and the odd FPS game (which also is really PC focused in my memory).
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Post by starchildhypocrethes on Aug 15, 2023 17:48:29 GMT
I feel like you haven’t seen a console in action in around 20 years.
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Frog
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Post by Frog on Aug 15, 2023 17:52:40 GMT
Plays damn well on a pad, Ive been using one on pc to play from the sofa. It will play just fine on the consoles.
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zephro
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Post by zephro on Aug 15, 2023 17:58:56 GMT
I feel like you haven’t seen a console in action in around 20 years. I've always had Nintendo ones (or before that Sega). But I did get a 360 and a PS3 during that generation but gave them both away when the PS4 came out, nothing struck me as particularly vital. Plus I was pissy I didn't get a free PS4 unlike the cunts in marketing.
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Post by Aunt Alison on Aug 15, 2023 18:30:24 GMT
Aren't third person action games largely console centric? Things like Dark Souls, DMC, Resident Evil, etc. All designed to be played with controllers on consoles
Can't think of any PC ones
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Post by LegendaryApe on Aug 15, 2023 18:44:01 GMT
What are the accessibility/font size settings on this like?
It's the only thing holding me back pre-ordering on ps5.
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Post by deekyfun on Aug 15, 2023 18:53:48 GMT
I also hope for a resurgence of party-based RPGs in a similar style to the Infinity Engine games and other titles of that kind. While I enjoy plenty of more recent titles, I am definitely stuck in the past in terms of a lot of my favorites.
Maybe this sparks a mini renaissance of the genre, but I wouldn't trust the AAA space with it anyway. Some new indies would be good though.
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zephro
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Post by zephro on Aug 15, 2023 18:59:59 GMT
I'm worried about Obsidian now that MS own them, also Arkane. I don't really give a fuck about the AA/AAA etc. distinctions but they were big developers of the kind of game I enjoy and I'm worried they're going to go all homogenised and boring.
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Post by skalpadda on Aug 15, 2023 19:27:07 GMT
What are the accessibility/font size settings on this like? It's the only thing holding me back pre-ordering on ps5. I wrote in a comment upthread that you can change the dialogue font size, which is true, but I didn't realise then that you don't seem to be able to change the description text, tooltips, books, etc. This is on PC, so I hope they've put some thought into the console versions because some of it is rather small even though I have a reasonably sized monitor. I'm worried about Obsidian now that MS own them, also Arkane. I don't really give a fuck about the AA/AAA etc. distinctions but they were big developers of the kind of game I enjoy and I'm worried they're going to go all homogenised and boring. Same here, but then again Obsidian has always had to compromise on budgets, work on multiple games at the same time and has had a very strange relationship with publishers. So far it sounds like MS actually wants Obsidian to make RPGs and Arkane to make immersive sims, but who knows what that will look like in 5 or 10 years.
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Post by LegendaryApe on Aug 15, 2023 19:34:46 GMT
Thanks for that info skalpadda. I'll have to have a think about it, and see if it's mentioned in any reviews
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zephro
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Post by zephro on Aug 15, 2023 19:48:33 GMT
Same here, but then again Obsidian has always had to compromise on budgets, work on multiple games at the same time and has had a very strange relationship with publishers. So far it sounds like MS actually wants Obsidian to make RPGs and Arkane to make immersive sims, but who knows what that will look like in 5 or 10 years. Yeah. All the stuff about budgets seems irrelevant to me. BG3 really only has 4-5 places (they are big as fuck). They've succeeded by drilling down into the specific and actually fleshing them out. Not having 5,000 systems that are copy+paste jobs. Anyone can take lessons from BG3 regardless of budget, if you don't have money for all the voice acting and motion capture, make something that looks like Disco Elysium. Which is beautiful, not because they spaffed millions of dollars on it but because it has a singular art direction that holds together. Arkane have similarly actually made relatively small games, you can power through Dishonoured 1/2 or Deathloop in a couple days. But the places they create have a viscerality because they focused on place and architecture, as well as systemic game systems. They also look beautiful as a result even if they weren't Crysis. If Bioware or Bethesda or someone who does have hundreds of millions to throw into development learn exactly nothing from this then what's even the point of them?
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Post by Aunt Alison on Aug 15, 2023 19:57:43 GMT
But their games are really popular, they don't need to learn anything. People like what they make I reckon Skyrim has sold better than Disco Elysium
For the record, I've never played Skyrim. I like Fallout but don't think Bethesda are a good dev or anything. They've got a formula that works and people enjoy. They get away with their games being ropey because of that and because they're so big. If Bethesda scaled their games back and went for depth, I doubt very much they've got the talent to make anything even close to the quality of Baldur's Gate and would lose their audience
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zephro
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Post by zephro on Aug 15, 2023 20:00:09 GMT
So? The Spice Girls sold better than Pulp, it doesn't mean anything.
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Post by Aunt Alison on Aug 15, 2023 20:01:42 GMT
It means they made money. That's it
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2023 20:02:11 GMT
If what this thread is telling me is that this plays like a PC game from 1998, I think I’ll gladly skip it when it hits PS5.
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Post by salaman on Aug 15, 2023 20:25:59 GMT
Yaay, bank holiday in Belgium. I clocked up 7 hours today. I laughed out loud when, shortly after reaching level 5, I tried Gale's new level 3 spell 'lightning bolt'. Unfortunately, I was stood on a wooden bridge at the time and the lighting bolt took out the bridge as well as 2 enemies and my entire party fell in a chasm and died. Then I had yet another attempt at defeating Dror Ragzlin . I had 2 disastrous attempts at level 3 or 4. Came back to it at level 5, thought I'd be clever and attack from the rafters. Sadly only Lae'zel could jump there with her Githyanki Psionics super jump.
The plan was to attack and then kite them over to where the rest of the party was but somehow, miraculously, I cleared the room alone.
Dror Ragzlin climbed into the rafters as did 3 of the other mobs. He attacked them and even shoved one down to his death to get at me.
I did fuck up in the end, shoving Dror Ragzlin to his death from the rafters and he bloody fell down into the ravine beyond the NE corner of the room. So no body and no sweet, sweet loot from him. :-( .
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Post by skalpadda on Aug 15, 2023 21:45:36 GMT
Yeah. All the stuff about budgets seems irrelevant to me. BG3 really only has 4-5 places (they are big as fuck). They've succeeded by drilling down into the specific and actually fleshing them out. Not having 5,000 systems that are copy+paste jobs. Anyone can take lessons from BG3 regardless of budget, if you don't have money for all the voice acting and motion capture, make something that looks like Disco Elysium. Which is beautiful, not because they spaffed millions of dollars on it but because it has a singular art direction that holds together. Arkane have similarly actually made relatively small games, you can power through Dishonoured 1/2 or Deathloop in a couple days. But the places they create have a viscerality because they focused on place and architecture, as well as systemic game systems. They also look beautiful as a result even if they weren't Crysis. If Bioware or Bethesda or someone who does have hundreds of millions to throw into development learn exactly nothing from this then what's even the point of them? Bethesda is for making sure Todd can afford fine leather jackets and Bioware just seems to be broken.
I'm feeling fairly positive about RPGs at the moment. As @ deekyfun wrote above it's kind of fine if the torch for these kinds of games is carried by indies and mid sized studios. If BG3 means we get more or better ones that's good. If Larian gets to make some more really big ones that'll be great too.
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Post by deekyfun on Aug 15, 2023 22:22:43 GMT
So, for me, when I'm thinking about those big studios, it's not budgets I'm thinking about - it's the fact that the studios in those environments are at the mercy of a corporate bloat and risk-adverse decision making. In my opinion those things don't marry particularly well with creative enterprise. I also think this stuff is kind of cyclical, anyway - companies that start off focused on the artistry of their product make it big, then grow, then over-grow and typically their metrics of success become different and they either perpetually cater to the mass or die. I'm not blaming them, or trying to stick it to the corpos, it's just how things tend to go pretty much everywhere. So while I hope whatever Bioware & Besthesda put out works out, I don't go there expecting to love their games, or expecting them to veer much from whatever the established template of right now is. It can still happen though; Obsidian released Pentiment not that long ago, and that was awesome (though I appreciate it wasn't of this genre).
Gaming has such a wide sphere that we never seem more than a few years out from another exciting new concept or resurgence of a previously mined-out one, so while it can be a bit depressing that certain genres fall out of favour, I still am hopeful that we'll see some new (good) things yet in CRPGs before I'm too old to move my mouse in a straight line.
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Post by Chopsen on Aug 15, 2023 23:13:45 GMT
Fuuuuuucksakes, people. An awesome game gets released in a genre you love all you can all do is navel gaze about how Things Aren't Like They Used to Be. Get a grip
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