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Post by quadfather on Aug 14, 2023 15:00:36 GMT
It sounds similar to the Hollywood movie industry where risk aversion takes precedent and they'd rather rehash someone else's work just to make cash.
Then bg3 comes along and gosh dammit, it's actually daring and adventurous and is doing ok.
But like aunt says, it'll move on soon and it'll be the next shiny shiny
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Post by muddyfunster on Aug 14, 2023 16:17:19 GMT
The movie industry is a very good parallel. Remakes and superheroes are the movie equivalent to third-person open-world action games with light RPG elements.
There are very few directors trusted with a massive budget and allowed to go and do their own thing and take as long as it takes.
Christopher Nolan is Hollywood's Larian. Probably not coincidentally, he also has faith in the intelligence of his audience and the determination to see through an idea. Even he's one big budget flop away from having to do Spiderman 27 instead.
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zephro
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Post by zephro on Aug 14, 2023 18:09:24 GMT
It does seem self-defeating the idea that EA/MS are risk averse, so we just shouldn't bother expecting Bethesda or Bioware to bother looking at what they could be doing differently.
It's still setting standards for cRPGs though even for indies (who you just don't expect to add all the voice acting or make it quite so pretty).
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MolarAm🔵
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Post by MolarAm🔵 on Aug 15, 2023 1:45:51 GMT
I'm interested to see how Starfield does now. I know BG3 moved its release date up to avoid clashing with it, but now I'm half thinking that it's going to eat Starfield's lunch.
Here you've got something genuinely pushing the genre forward. Versus a company that, whether you like their games or not, have been making iterations on the same thing since Morrowind. WHO WILL TRIUMPH
(yeah yeah they're different games, I know)
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ekz
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Post by ekz on Aug 15, 2023 2:25:07 GMT
Nah, starfield release is going to be massive even if the launch itself is a clusterfuck as I expect it to be
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MolarAm🔵
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Post by MolarAm🔵 on Aug 15, 2023 2:44:29 GMT
But will it be AS massive as this one? I think not!
(it probably will)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2023 3:07:56 GMT
Uhh.
Is BG3 a hit, or just a critical darling?
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lukasz
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Post by lukasz on Aug 15, 2023 3:32:02 GMT
Uhh. Is BG3 a hit, or just a critical darling? Hit. They had 875k players at a time steamcharts.com/app/1086940More than cp77 steamcharts.com/app/1091500And we know that sold a lot And still 688k in last 24h. Just on steam. And positive word of mouth will probably double sales for console only players. |
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MolarAm🔵
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Post by MolarAm🔵 on Aug 15, 2023 3:59:41 GMT
I forget where I heard this, but I think it set some records on Steam? Or at least it's in some top 10 list of biggest sales in week after launch or something.
It's not just because the game is good. I think D&D has been having a moment for a while now, and people are latching onto that.
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Post by Aunt Alison on Aug 15, 2023 4:16:09 GMT
I don't think it will affect Starfield at all. BG3 is just a good game. I think people need to calm down a bit
No one really cares about Cyberpunk anymore
Starfield is going to be sold mainly on its marketing anyway
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MolarAm🔵
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Post by MolarAm🔵 on Aug 15, 2023 4:35:23 GMT
I think YOU need to calm down a bit. Yeah, that's right, a switcheroo.
Also it's more fun to make the games fight.
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Post by Aunt Alison on Aug 15, 2023 4:41:47 GMT
It seems to me like Larian have made a genuinely excellent game that people love. D&D is popular (you say) and it's getting good word of mouth. It's great that it's doing well. I'm sure it'll go down as a classic
Bethesda don't really care about that. They're making a product and will spend millions and millions of dollars to put it out there and make sure everyone buys it, same as always. Then they'll start on the next one
It's just different
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Post by Danno on Aug 15, 2023 4:52:22 GMT
I dont remember seeing a single ad for Starfield to date. More or less everything I've seen about it has been on here*
*yes I spend too much time on here.
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MolarAm🔵
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Post by MolarAm🔵 on Aug 15, 2023 4:53:39 GMT
My feeling right now is that this game has captured the zeitgeist in a way that Starfield will not be able to. But whatever, we'll see next month I suppose.
Anyway, I just had a very Planescape: Torment moment with Volo and an eyeball. That was disgusting, even the descriptions were enough to make me wince.
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Post by Aunt Alison on Aug 15, 2023 4:56:39 GMT
I dont remember seeing a single ad for Starfield to date. More or less everything I've seen about it has been on here* *yes I spend too much time on here. Maybe they're trying something a bit different and are going to just slip it out quietly this time with little to no fanfare |
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Post by skalpadda on Aug 15, 2023 5:13:46 GMT
Anyway, I just had a very Planescape: Torment moment with Volo and an eyeball. That was disgusting, even the descriptions were enough to make me wince. Inspired by this absolute psychopath (link is a spoiler if you don't know about Volo and the eyeball yet). I think I might murder him on principle if I run into him again. |
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MolarAm🔵
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Post by MolarAm🔵 on Aug 15, 2023 5:21:07 GMT
I mean, the reward is (probably) worth it. |
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Post by skalpadda on Aug 15, 2023 5:22:17 GMT
And in the game, as well.
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Post by Vandelay on Aug 15, 2023 6:46:45 GMT
Starfield is going to be big. Bigger than big. And I'll be left baffled as to why such a bland thing is so popular amongst so many people, as I am with all Bethesda games.
I do wonder how big BG3 will be on console. I think it will be a success, but I suspect it will be the rare game that has a large chunk of its audience on PC. The cRPG style of the 90s/early 00s was a completely PC genre. Bioware changed the genre with games like Knights of the Old Republic and, especially, Mass Effect to have popular mainstream appeal, but BG3 is a window into a world where the genre just continued developing from the old isometric Infinity Engine games. Console players are going to have far less of a connection to that.
Not to say BG3 is only being played by a crowd of old men while they take break from their cloud shouting, as you don't get a big hit like this just from them even in PC land. Still, I can see it not resonating as much with the mainstream console crowd, whereas Bethesda already has a big audience with them. BG3 will do quite nicely (I think D:OS2 did), just not the mega-hit it is proving to be on PC (and it is a mega-hit; it has the 4th biggest concurrent players of all-time just on Steam and is the only single-player game in the top 10).
Edit: actually, I'm wrong on that, it's 7th and Cyberpunk and Elden Ring are in top 10 - Elden Ring a couple of places ahead and Cyberpunk just below. Think I must have been remembering the current list where it was 4th and the only sp game.
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Post by muddyfunster on Aug 15, 2023 8:00:45 GMT
Starfield is guaranteed to sell well. Bethesda have too much credit in the bank for people not to at least give it a go. They've got mass appeal and brand awareness that Larian haven't yet.
It's going to be a massive release either way and will dominate the gaming news cycles for months and we'll have a whole new bunch of memes to enjoy/tolerate. They won't need to pay for marketing beyond the first two weeks.
Really the only question is whether the mood music will be positive or negative and that's going to be down to if the game is good and not broken.
All of which is to say I don't think BG3 will affect it in any meaningful way. Though I do think Starfield might take sales from BG3 short term and delay people getting around to it. However perhaps PS5 owners will compensate by buying BG3 in greater numbers from a sense of Starfield FOMO. Either way, there's certainly room for both.
Lastly what's with the calls for calm? Everyone is calm already. We're only discussing the state of the industry and speculating. It's not exciting, it's barely even interesting.
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lukasz
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Post by lukasz on Aug 15, 2023 8:03:15 GMT
Starfield is guaranteed to sell well. Bethesda have too much credit in the bank for people not to at least give it a go. They've got mass appeal and brand awareness that Larian haven't yet. It's going to be a massive release either way and will dominate the gaming news cycles for months and we'll have a whole new bunch of memes to enjoy/tolerate. They won't need to pay for marketing beyond the first two weeks. Really the only question is whether the mood music will be positive or negative and that's going to be down to if the game is good and not broken. All of which is to say I don't think BG3 will affect it in any meaningful way. Though I do think Starfield might take sales from BG3 short term and delay people getting around to it. However perhaps PS5 owners will compensate by buying BG3 in greater numbers from a sense of Starfield FOMO. Either way, there's certainly room for both. Lastly what's with the calls for calm? Everyone is calm already. We're only discussing the state of the industry and speculating. It's not exciting, it's barely even interesting. Aunt is investor in Bethesda so is peeved bg3 ruins starfield chance of being thr best game 2023! |
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Post by Bill in the rain on Aug 15, 2023 8:07:26 GMT
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Post by LegendaryApe on Aug 15, 2023 8:27:22 GMT
Sage advice
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Post by stixxuk on Aug 15, 2023 9:20:42 GMT
Hadn't realised how much people were raving about it, apparently now the highest-reviewed PC game of all time, according to metacritic.
Maybe my tactic of waiting for it to come on sale isn't going to pay off...
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Post by Warrender on Aug 15, 2023 10:13:43 GMT
Honestly, I never even knew there was going to be a BG3 until a few months ago with all the kerfuffle over bear sex and raised standards. I really didn't think this game was for me even though I played IRL D&D in the halcyon TSR days. I bounced off Larian's previous games pretty hard. But I bought it anyways because I want to reward devs that want to prioritize a great gaming experience over increased shareholder profits.
Long story short, I was both right and wrong. This game is incredible and up my alley but its openness has led to me second-guessing all my decisions and I've put it down for now to play more structured games. I plan to return to it but I also said the same thing about Elden Ring and Disco Elysium.
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Post by muddyfunster on Aug 15, 2023 10:46:51 GMT
Interesting and I think you're similar to me. When games have lots of choice and meaningfully mutually exclusive paths I can get a bit overwhelmed. I think it's because I know time investment wise, I'm hugely unlikely to replay so I put pointless pressure on myself to get decisions right first time. It's a form of FOMO.
It's actually one thing I really like about Bethesda games: you can do all the best content in one long play through if you want. Sure it requires ludonarrative dissonance. Yes I'm a master thief, head of the wizards guild, commander of the fighters guild, all round hero and great guy, but also a legendary assassin and vampire, what of it? It's escapism, and I want to be able to try the vast majority of the content without the stress of being locked out of some of it by a wrong decision I didn't realise the significance of at the time. I enjoy big choices in quests, but only if I feel I have been given enough information to make a conscious decision.
With Disco Elysium I had a bit of that indecision problem. Ended up stopping to consider things having felt my character was 'wrong' then didn't return to it for over a year. Had to start again because I'd forgotten what I was even supposed to be deliberating nevermind the plot so clearly it didn't actually matter.
Not saying this is a failing on BG3s part though. I imagine I'm in the minority and these are my issues to deal with.
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Post by Warrender on Aug 15, 2023 11:11:30 GMT
Oh, I totally know these are my own personal issues judging by the Steam concurrent player count.
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zephro
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Post by zephro on Aug 15, 2023 11:35:16 GMT
Though Fallout 4 and Fallout seventy whatever did go down like lead balloons, even if they sold well. I'm not sure the Bethesda magic has much social cache anymore. I do wonder how big BG3 will be on console. I think it will be a success, but I suspect it will be the rare game that has a large chunk of its audience on PC. The cRPG style of the 90s/early 00s was a completely PC genre. Bioware changed the genre with games like Knights of the Old Republic and, especially, Mass Effect to have popular mainstream appeal, but BG3 is a window into a world where the genre just continued developing from the old isometric Infinity Engine games This is true of all good games and all good genres. They're PC ones primarily, everything else is just a pale imitation.  |
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Post by muddyfunster on Aug 15, 2023 12:34:49 GMT
Platformers? Split screen multiplayer? Rhythm games like Guitar Hero? Sports games?
The word 'good' is doing a lot of work there.
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kal
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Post by kal on Aug 15, 2023 12:46:03 GMT
Starfield not being on PlayStation will somewhat hamper its massiveness. Just on numbers alone that’s a huge base that won’t have access.
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