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Post by rawshark on Jun 21, 2022 11:51:56 GMT
The MMA thing is a chewy one, because like most people of my age I was brought up to not hit girls (but hitting boys is ok) so I have this deep seated conditioning to feel uncomfortable about it. That being said, I also know without any shadow of a doubt that any female MMA fighter could beat the living shit out of me and 99% of all other men so I’m not sure where my argument is.
As with any competitive sport, the idea is to keep it, um, competitive. So as long as it looks like an even bout, they’re ok with it and they’re not being paired off against Brock Lesnar then we’re all good I guess.
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Ulythium
Full Member
Lily-livered
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Post by Ulythium on Jun 21, 2022 11:56:20 GMT
International Rugby League now banning trans women from competing in the Womens tournament. All sporting bodies falling in line with this now
I think World Rugby has already indicated their desire to take Union in the same direction.
Again, though, I don't mind being cautious when it comes to contact sports (although I'm sure it's awful for transwomen who desperately want to play rugby in either of its forms, and I have every sympathy on that front).
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Psiloc
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Post by Psiloc on Jun 21, 2022 12:05:48 GMT
Fair points. I dunno, I can't get past the fact that it's really generous to say categorically that you can reverse every single physical advantage of male puberty entirely with a course of drugs. As inappropriate as it sounds - and don't take this the wrong way - but you can still see male characteristics on a lot of trans women with your naked eyes. But I've been wrong before and like everyone else I've never cared enough to look into this. The main problem I think is the controversy that's going to occur every time an event is held and that's really not fair on anybody
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Post by Jambowayoh on Jun 21, 2022 12:10:55 GMT
I think the message this sends to transgender people is that you are different, we don't class you as the gender you identify with so here is a separate field where 'you lot' can compete against each other because you're different and we want to do everything in our power to remind you of that. You are not a man, you are not a woman, you are other.
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dogbot
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Post by dogbot on Jun 21, 2022 12:11:09 GMT
"Your tells are so obvious
Shoulders too broad for a girl
Keeps you reminded
Helps you to remember where you come from"
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Post by Aunt Alison on Jun 21, 2022 12:12:04 GMT
Now look what you've done. dogbot's started singing
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dogbot
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Post by dogbot on Jun 21, 2022 12:13:24 GMT
Laura's stuff is worth a listen and some of her interviews from after she came out are really enlightening, if one wants to understand a bit more about what people with dysphoria go through.
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cubby
Full Member
doesn't get subtext
Posts: 6,385
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Post by cubby on Jun 21, 2022 12:23:54 GMT
I think the message this sends to transgender people is that you are different, we don't class you as the gender you identify with so here is a separate field where 'you lot' can compete against each other because you're different and we want to do everything in our power to remind you of that. You are not a man, you are not a woman, you are other. It's even more than that IMO, it's telling transgender people they transitioned purely to gain an advantage. |
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Post by rhaegyr on Jun 21, 2022 12:24:23 GMT
"Your tells are so obvious Shoulders too broad for a girl Keeps you reminded Helps you to remember where you come from" Fucking great song. True Trans Soul Rebel is possibly even better! |
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dogbot
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Posts: 8,738
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Post by dogbot on Jun 21, 2022 12:28:26 GMT
"Your tells are so obvious Shoulders too broad for a girl Keeps you reminded Helps you to remember where you come from" Fucking great song. True Trans Soul Rebel is possibly even better! Definitely my favourite album of theirs. The writing is truly heart rending in places |
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Post by elstoof on Jun 21, 2022 12:29:51 GMT
I’m my limited exposure to these things, there seems to be a significant overlap between the guys who tweet how shit women are at football and female athletes don’t deserve the same money as men because their sports are shit to watch, and the ones who want to ensure sports are fair and proper for women
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Ulythium
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Lily-livered
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Post by Ulythium on Jun 21, 2022 12:31:24 GMT
It's even more than that IMO, it's telling transgender people they transitioned purely to gain an advantage.
Which in and of itself seems disparaging towards women's sports, in my view.
There's a tacit implication that any mid-level cisgender sportsman could proclaim gender dysphoria and switch to the women's version of his sport, then end up swimming in medals/trophies as a matter of inevitability.
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Tuffty
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Post by Tuffty on Jun 21, 2022 12:32:39 GMT
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Post by GigaChad Sigma. on Jun 21, 2022 12:34:11 GMT
I think the message this sends to transgender people is that you are different, we don't class you as the gender you identify with so here is a separate field where 'you lot' can compete against each other because you're different and we want to do everything in our power to remind you of that. You are not a man, you are not a woman, you are other. There's a message that also goes out to young girls who want to be athletes. That their goals, efforts and achievements are secondary. |
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Post by 😎 on Jun 21, 2022 12:37:33 GMT
Secondary to what? Despite a few cherry picked examples, trans women are not dominating the leaderboards.
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Post by GigaChad Sigma. on Jun 21, 2022 12:50:45 GMT
Secondary to male athletes who transition to female.
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Post by GigaChad Sigma. on Jun 21, 2022 12:52:00 GMT
Secondary to mens events.
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Post by GigaChad Sigma. on Jun 21, 2022 12:52:16 GMT
Not as important.
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Post by GigaChad Sigma. on Jun 21, 2022 12:52:57 GMT
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Post by 😎 on Jun 21, 2022 12:59:06 GMT
Quite a few trans men in that list, or is that okay?
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Post by Jambowayoh on Jun 21, 2022 12:59:28 GMT
I think the message this sends to transgender people is that you are different, we don't class you as the gender you identify with so here is a separate field where 'you lot' can compete against each other because you're different and we want to do everything in our power to remind you of that. You are not a man, you are not a woman, you are other. There's a message that also goes out to young girls who want to be athletes. That their goals, efforts and achievements are secondary. I'm not sure where you're getting this message because the only people telling girls this are the people who are telling girls they shouldn't be doing STEM subjects, that their place is to be a mother and wife, that their body isn't theirs to control. |
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Post by mothercruncher on Jun 21, 2022 13:02:42 GMT
I think it’s a fair point, women’s prize money lags waaaaay behind the men and, while that’s probably justified in terms of TV money, etc, something could still be mandated to balance things better, artificially if needed. Because it’s just women’s sports lol.
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Post by GigaChad Sigma. on Jun 21, 2022 13:03:54 GMT
Sure.
I've no issue with who competes. As long as it doesn't provide an unfair advantage.
The current qualification centres primarily around lowered testosterone. If we are looking at Lia Thomas does medication completely undo 20+ years of advantage?
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Post by 😎 on Jun 21, 2022 13:06:22 GMT
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スコットランド
Junior Member
Delicious gruel
Posts: 3,934
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Post by スコットランド on Jun 21, 2022 13:08:52 GMT
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Post by rawshark on Jun 21, 2022 13:12:29 GMT
One day everything will be Cyberpunk and you’ll be able to attach whatever and as many types of genitalia you feel like in the day. And you’ll be racing on wheels that come out your feet and knocking the gears out of everyone with hydraulic fists.
Just like in Inspector Gadget.
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Post by GigaChad Sigma. on Jun 21, 2022 13:17:12 GMT
It's only an unfair advantage or an issue if the athlete wins every competition and every medal?
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Post by GigaChad Sigma. on Jun 21, 2022 13:21:21 GMT
If athletes take performance enhancing drugs but they don't win do you just ignore it?
They're not winning so what does it matter?
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Post by 😎 on Jun 21, 2022 13:23:56 GMT
No, but it’s not a level playing field, legal or otherwise, without allowing trans people to compete, so it feels arbitrary and buying into the culture wars to single them out. Trans have been competing in sports for years without this much noise about it, and yet it’s all right wingers can talk about all of a sudden over the past year. Wonder why.
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Psiloc
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Post by Psiloc on Jun 21, 2022 13:26:55 GMT
I'm far from a right winger but I can admit it's nowhere near as simple as you're making out
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