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Post by drhickman1983 on Jun 21, 2022 13:29:29 GMT
Exactly, trans people have been competing for years, but it's only now that's it's being shoved forward as a wedge issue.
Even if some of the comments are being driven by a genuine desire to see "fair play", the undercurrent is being driven by the general anti-trans sentiment the right wing are currently pushing.
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Post by starchildhypocrethes on Jun 21, 2022 13:30:00 GMT
All you have to do to get a gold medal these days is throw your entire existence into turmoil, open yourself up to relentless hate and abuse and have some life-changing medical treatment.
It’s not fair.
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Post by 😎 on Jun 21, 2022 13:30:37 GMT
I’m not suggesting it isn’t a difficult subject, but I also don’t think it’s as simple as “ban them from competing in their gender class” because that’s just as problematic. It varies sport to sport, discipline to discipline, and drawing this hard line is doing nothing but buying into the anti-trans culture wars.
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Post by GigaChad Sigma. on Jun 21, 2022 13:32:46 GMT
Have they? I've no research to support it but I'd wager there's more trans athletes competing today than 10 years ago.
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Post by 😎 on Jun 21, 2022 13:37:10 GMT
There’s more trans people competing because there’s more people able and enabled to publicly come out as trans in the first place because society started to become more accepting. There’s no big mystery to that, nor is it inherent to sports in general.
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dogbot
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Post by dogbot on Jun 21, 2022 13:38:24 GMT
I love how it's all about fairness.
Just like it was all about free speech. Or standards in journalism.
🤔
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Post by GigaChad Sigma. on Jun 21, 2022 13:39:55 GMT
Exclusion isn't ideal. It's undermines the core tenet of transsexualism but overlooking the challenges it presents isn't a great path either.
I don’t know how many options there are to investigate though.
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Post by 😎 on Jun 21, 2022 13:41:23 GMT
Surely exclusion also overlooks the challenges it presents?
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Post by Jambowayoh on Jun 21, 2022 13:42:02 GMT
I love how it's all about fairness. Just like it was all about free speech. Or standards in journalism. 🤔 Just like it was all lives matter. |
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Post by GigaChad Sigma. on Jun 21, 2022 13:42:48 GMT
I love how it's all about fairness. Just like it was all about free speech. Or standards in journalism. 🤔 It isn't? Throw shade if you want... or be a little more bold. |
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Post by drhickman1983 on Jun 21, 2022 13:48:16 GMT
Yeah, there are more trans athletes competing. Very few (basically none) are dominating.
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Psiloc
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Post by Psiloc on Jun 21, 2022 13:48:24 GMT
Thread taking a turn towards Godwin's Law here
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Post by GigaChad Sigma. on Jun 21, 2022 13:50:13 GMT
Surely exclusion also overlooks the challenges it presents? Inaction vs action. You can be Hamlet and I can be Laertes. |
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dogbot
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Post by dogbot on Jun 21, 2022 13:51:25 GMT
I love how it's all about fairness. Just like it was all about free speech. Or standards in journalism. 🤔 It isn't? Throw shade if you want... or be a little more bold. Interesting that you see the need to be defensive, because I didn't quote or reply to you, it wasn't aimed at you, it was just a general comment about the topic. But, yes, it is. Those things are cloaks used to attempt to cast an air of respectability or reasonableness over some quite nasty stuff. "Just asking questions". "Racism? Nah, free speech, mate. Anti-trans? It's just a joke, maybe you should get a sense of humour" and so on. And I've never seen anyone defend Gamergate who wasn't an absolute fuckwit. If you choose to be offended by that, well, it's just free speech, eh? |
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Post by GigaChad Sigma. on Jun 21, 2022 13:51:49 GMT
Yeah, there are more trans athletes competing. Very few (basically none) are dominating. Again. Does it matter if it's one gold medal or 20? One event or ten? I matters to those competing. |
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deebs
New Member
So I was killing this pig with a hammer
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Post by deebs on Jun 21, 2022 13:52:27 GMT
The entire argument is just another white american christian angle on gays = bad.
Get with the times, they're all about attacking the drag queens now because they're teaching boys how to be girls.
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dogbot
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Post by dogbot on Jun 21, 2022 13:54:26 GMT
Also, today I am both aggressive and not bold enough. 🤣
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2022 13:56:11 GMT
I genuinely don't know what a way forward would be with this that allows trans people to compete in events under the gender they identify with without displacing an element of their fellow athletes. There will always be some with contrasting opinions that deem it some kind of unfair advantage, how ever close (or far) from the truth of the matter it may be. I guess it would be easier to argue should it be proven unequivocally that trans athletes have a distinct advantage over their competitors - but presumably there is no evidence to support this theory - and I'm presuming that this is the fear. Without the data to back it up, it just becomes opinions and decisions based on this unfounded fear I would have thought.
But I don't really know what the hell I'm talking about.
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Post by GigaChad Sigma. on Jun 21, 2022 13:56:35 GMT
It isn't? Throw shade if you want... or be a little more bold. Interesting that you see the need to be defensive, because I didn't quote or reply to you, it wasn't aimed at you, it was just a general comment about the topic. But, yes, it is. Those things are cloaks used to attempt to cast an air of respectability or reasonableness over some quite nasty stuff. "Just asking questions". "Racism? Nah, free speech, mate. Anti-trans? It's just a joke, maybe you should get a sense of humour" and so on. And I've never seen anyone defend Gamergate who wasn't an absolute fuckwit. If you choose to be offended by that, well, it's just free speech, eh? I'm the core protagonist in the discussion on this page so not sure who else it could be directed at? You've certainly broadened the topic beyond its scope so kudos to that. Instead of a rather tired pattern at trying to curry favour and acceptance with others you could debate the topic at hand? |
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Post by drhickman1983 on Jun 21, 2022 13:57:37 GMT
Yeah, there are more trans athletes competing. Very few (basically none) are dominating. Again. Does it matter if it's one gold medal or 20? One event or ten? I matters to those competing. I don't think think it does matter. If they're competing at a similar level to cis women, which most are, I think it's an even enough playing field. |
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dogbot
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Post by dogbot on Jun 21, 2022 14:02:20 GMT
I'm the core protagonist in the discussion on this page Fucking hell. 🤣🤣🤣 This discussion is moving pretty quickly. But just so as we're clear, in the hugely unlikely event I am addressing you in future, I'll be sure to leave you in no doubt. Still, kudos to you for attempt to dodge any actual discussion, as usual. The very definition of bad faith arguing. I shall leave you to just ask questions 😘 |
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aubergine
Junior Member
I must get over myself
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Post by aubergine on Jun 21, 2022 14:04:56 GMT
One day everything will be Cyberpunk and you’ll be able to attach whatever and as many types of genitalia you feel like in the day. And you’ll be racing on wheels that come out your feet and knocking the gears out of everyone with hydraulic fists. Just like in Inspector Gadget. If sports involved cyborgs with trap doors and extendo legs and whirling saw blades ready to pop out of their bodies, I might be tempted to actually watch. I’m a little torn over the transgender sports issue, because I care a lot about trans rights and opportunities, but everyone who plays or is interested in watching sport can eat one. I guess, to be equal, transgender sportsfolk can fuck off with the rest of them. |
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Post by GigaChad Sigma. on Jun 21, 2022 14:05:04 GMT
Righto.
Well you've waved your flag and everyone knows what a wonderful chap you are now so we can go back to the discussion on trans athletes in sports rather than the multiple topics you're looking to inject.
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aubergine
Junior Member
I must get over myself
Posts: 2,181
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Post by aubergine on Jun 21, 2022 14:07:20 GMT
Have they? I've no research to support it but I'd wager there's more trans athletes competing today than 10 years ago. There are precisely the same proportion of trans people as there’s always been, you can just see them now. |
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dogbot
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Post by dogbot on Jun 21, 2022 14:10:11 GMT
Righto. Well you've waved your flag and everyone knows what a wonderful chap you are now so we can go back to the discussion on trans athletes in sports rather than the multiple topics you're looking to inject. Like I said, if you choose to be so clearly upset by it, I think that is more about you than me, sweetie. |
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aubergine
Junior Member
I must get over myself
Posts: 2,181
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Post by aubergine on Jun 21, 2022 14:11:47 GMT
The entire argument is just another white american christian angle on gays = bad. Get with the times, they're all about attacking the drag queens now because they're teaching boys how to be girls. They lost their battle to prevent gay marriage, so have moved down their list to a more vulnerable group. |
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Post by GigaChad Sigma. on Jun 21, 2022 14:12:55 GMT
Just trying to keep on topic rather than covering Gamergate, Journalism and Free Speech as well.
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Post by Jambowayoh on Jun 21, 2022 14:16:20 GMT
Righto. Well you've waved your flag and everyone knows what a wonderful chap you are now so we can go back to the discussion on trans athletes in sports rather than the multiple topics you're looking to inject. Are you insinuating that people are...sigh...virtue signalling? Because that's what it looks like. Also if you want some support in this debate go ask user Freddie, although he seems to have started something and completely disengaged from it, which is just lovely. |
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dogbot
Full Member
Posts: 8,738
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Post by dogbot on Jun 21, 2022 14:18:04 GMT
If you don't think it's reasonable to draw parallels between similar... cultural occurrences... as means of establishing an overall sense of where this comes from, that's up to you. I thought it was a not unreasonable insight and worthy of noting as part of an ongoing discussion.
If the mods believe otherwise and I am out of order, they are welcome to tell me so and I will remove or adjust any offending posts appropriately.
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Post by GigaChad Sigma. on Jun 21, 2022 14:18:13 GMT
This thread is rife with people virtue signalling as with many other threads.
People seek out validation. It's hardly a secret.
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