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Post by starchildhypocrethes on Feb 27, 2023 10:22:33 GMT
Yeah, the whole parry system feels very slick overall. There are a lot of different systems and odd functions going on in the game though.
Like you, I have no idea what the morale system does. It seems to rise as you go along and then resets when you die, but only as low as your Fortitude level is, and then enemies get higher as you go along and I assume get stronger and they also get stronger each time they kill you or something, plus you can only cast spells that are equal to your current Morale level, I think, but I have no idea what level a spell is.
Simple really.
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wunty
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Post by wunty on Feb 27, 2023 10:30:39 GMT
They really do throw everything in to these games. It will click eventually but I recall even after hundreds of hours across two Nioh games and all DLC and still not knowing what half the shit meant or using most of what I picked up. I'm sure it will be the same here. The important thing is that it feels amazing to play.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Feb 27, 2023 10:34:44 GMT
Its a game of two halves, Brian. The first phase you can just wail on him as your attacks interrupt all his moves bar the red flashy ones. Second phase, keep in the middle distance and, yeah, you have to work out the parry timings on the red and non red charge moves. I wouldnt get close anyway as you dont seem to be able to stagger him with normal moves.
The aim of the bosses is to, basically, parry them and hit them with magic/weapon arts until their bar gets all the way left and you can grapple them, so if you hit a parry, try to hold the trigger and do a special on him which does a lot of bar damage.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Feb 27, 2023 10:40:34 GMT
The spells are equal to your stat level in that area. So when you pray at a shrine and put points in wood or something, you can cast spells up to that level on that stat, so if you pile into fire to get your HP up, you can also seemingly cast high level fire spells but not whatever stat youve ignored.
The morale system seems to be a level system per stage to stop you Leeeroy Jenkinsing through the map like you could on Nioh. Enemies get relatively harder towards the end and if you havent killed enough or raised enough flags the boss will OHK you (as far as I can tell)
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Tuffty
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Post by Tuffty on Feb 27, 2023 10:42:18 GMT
Yeah, the whole parry system feels very slick overall. There are a lot of different systems and odd functions going on in the game though. Like you, I have no idea what the morale system does. It seems to rise as you go along and then resets when you die, but only as low as your Fortitude level is, and then enemies get higher as you go along and I assume get stronger and they also get stronger each time they kill you or something, plus you can only cast spells that are equal to your current Morale level, I think, but I have no idea what level a spell is. Simple really. Morale basically just indicates enemy strength. It builds up when you beat enemies, perform surprise attacks, block those big red flashy moves. If an enemy kills you, you lose Morale and half your Qi. You can reclaim it by beating the same enemy, but the enemy also has an increased morale level so there's a little bit of added difficulty. If you look at your wizard spells, the Morale level is listed beside each spell, it's the number in a circle, similar to how morale level looks on the UI
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Feb 27, 2023 10:44:58 GMT
I think raising flags also locks you in at that level so you cant fall below it. I think anyway, there is some gate to stop you falling back to zero every time you die which would be ridiculous.
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Tuffty
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Post by Tuffty on Feb 27, 2023 10:47:39 GMT
Exactly, flags raise the fortitude rank so you can never say be at morale rank 1 at the end of a level. Though would be interesting to try thinking about it, if you just try and beat a level without raising flags. It's not impossible, I imagine the game will prob add it as a challenge.
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wunty
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Post by wunty on Feb 27, 2023 10:49:14 GMT
So what's the point in levelling / upgrading weapons if morale is the thing that affects enemy strength? Will I really have to think about my weapon, my level, what stat I've levelled AND my morale as well as the enemy morale in order to figure out what damage I'm going to do (and that's before we start to think about elemenetal and physical resistances). I'm just going to jump about and hit the shit out of things I think. Let the numbers take care of themselves.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Feb 27, 2023 10:52:37 GMT
I suspect its relative, right? Like if you grind to be OP, you will be just as op against a level 1 enemy as a level 20 enemy if you work through the game methodically, same if youre under levelled, you will be equally underlevelled against everyone.
Like I say, to me it looks like its just to stop you running through the level but presumably at some point youre going to be sufficiently buff for it not to matter.
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wunty
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Post by wunty on Feb 27, 2023 11:00:03 GMT
So basically, you need to really get all the flags and kill enough to be pumped morally against the later enemies / bosses, so you're not at a disadvantage even if you've been levelling and upgrading steadily in the background? Suppose that it's there should those want an additional challenge as well (YT will be full of vids with nutters using entry level gear, no levelling and a morality level of 0 going up against end game shit I presume).
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Post by starchildhypocrethes on Feb 27, 2023 11:00:20 GMT
I’m guessing bosses will cap out at whatever the maximum fortitude level is that you get from flags? Otherwise it’s going to be a massive pain in the arse if you have to go back and grind through some of the level to raise your morale back up again each time you die, but then have that option if you want to get a bit of an advantage.
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Tuffty
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Post by Tuffty on Feb 27, 2023 11:01:42 GMT
On an absolute basic level all you need is to look at the enemy's morale level and your own and that just gives you the knowledge that it could be a difficult fight. I imagine as you level up stats, get better gear etc that coming back to earlier levels are gonna be much more of a breeze, we just don't know what that looks like in the full game yet.
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wunty
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Post by wunty on Feb 27, 2023 11:02:29 GMT
Plus I noticed that the two phase boss killed me then went up a level to 11, yet after he killed me again he seemed to be back down to level 10. Which I didn't get.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Feb 27, 2023 11:03:55 GMT
On both demos, I think Ive got to the end and locked in at level 20 which seems to be the cap without any grinding, so they do seem to be well designed to organically get you to that level for the boss fight and keep you there.
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Tuffty
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Post by Tuffty on Feb 27, 2023 11:04:42 GMT
Think bosses operate somewhat differently. If you die you'll see the morale go up, bit if you make it back to the boss stage and start the fight, you'll immediately reclaim the morale you lost. Wouldnt make sense to have to beat it to get it back like you do for normal enemies, plus doesn't make it too unfair to the player as bosses should be the biggest challenge
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wunty
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Post by wunty on Feb 27, 2023 11:05:36 GMT
Cool. I'm sure it will click fairly quickly in the main game.
Shit, I'm quite pumped now.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Feb 27, 2023 11:09:06 GMT
Yeah, my ass temps are very cranked for this.
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Tuffty
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Post by Tuffty on Feb 27, 2023 11:09:14 GMT
If you wanna delve a little deeper into it and optimise your damage output etc then also consider the fact that there's weapon scaling like in Dark Souls, so as you put points into Wood Virtue for example, you can get a weapon that scales with it and get you a bit of a damage boost. But like Nioh, the systems are all there, its just they'll take greater importance presumably at the end game.
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Post by starchildhypocrethes on Feb 27, 2023 11:19:06 GMT
Yeah, I’m looking forward to the first 10hrs or so before it all becomes far too difficult and I give up in a huff.
As it’s on GP it should be available Thursday, too.
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Post by uiruki on Feb 27, 2023 11:19:08 GMT
If you're going to play on Game Pass it's letting you pre-install on PC and Xbox now.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Feb 27, 2023 11:21:24 GMT
The swing-o-meter or whatever its called also makes a difference. Im glad they got rid of stamina and this momentum gauge really encourages you to keep your foot on the gas. If youre all the way to the right, your triangle move is powered up and whatnot.
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Post by UncleLou on Feb 27, 2023 12:27:51 GMT
The only thing that might top this for me this year is Diablo 4, but like Nioh 1/2, Wo Long is designed as if they looked directly into my brain and made a game based on all the things I love about games. Absolutely adored the demo.
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wunty
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Post by wunty on Feb 27, 2023 12:37:33 GMT
It's all the mythology shit I'm looking forward to. I loved all the Yokai in Nioh 1&2.
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Tuffty
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Post by Tuffty on Feb 27, 2023 13:11:24 GMT
Theres a looot of Three Kingdoms stuff in here I have no clue about so all these names, places terminology etc when I read about it in their glossary is kinda going over my head. I appreciate the effort, I should really read more into it I guess. But then, nobody is really playing this for the story.
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wunty
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Post by wunty on Feb 27, 2023 13:21:43 GMT
Yeah I thought the same with nioh. I feel like I should have paid more attention to the historical stuff but... Yokai.
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wunty
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Post by wunty on Feb 27, 2023 13:22:50 GMT
I realise that I made a boob. I was playing with Japanese voices. Something just sounded off and I couldn't place it. Better rectify that start properly.
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Post by UncleLou on Feb 27, 2023 13:24:13 GMT
I am in NG+++ somewhere in Nioh 2, and I don't have the foggiest idea about the story. For me it's the combat, randomised loot and min-maxing. It's like a Souls game fused with Diablo.
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Post by rhaegyr on Feb 27, 2023 13:28:28 GMT
May be an unpopular opinion but I wish they'd cut all the excess loot and min-maxing out and go for a more stripped down experience.
To be honest I think I just want a straight up sequel to Ninja Gaiden (that's good).
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wunty
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Post by wunty on Feb 27, 2023 13:29:51 GMT
Think I stopped Nioh 2 somewhere in NG++. I not only still didn't have a clue about the story, but no idea about what I was doing with my gear! Just ended up sticking with the same build the entire time (onmyo / switchglaive), but I loved it.
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wunty
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Post by wunty on Feb 27, 2023 13:30:37 GMT
May be an unpopular opinion but I wish they'd cut all the excess loot and min-maxing out and go for a more stripped down experience. To be honest I think I just want a straight up sequel to Ninja Gaiden (that's good). I know what you mean. I just view it all as there if you want it, but it's perfectly possible to play in a more streamlined way and not be penalised.
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