Nioh (the series)

In the end though, it all comes down to preference. If you prefer the tighter, more skill-based Sekiro fighting instead of the more RPG-y, build-based Nioh fighting, more power to you

I thought Nioh 1 had more bullshit bosses than Nioh 2. It's telling that I just completely abandoned some of the dual boss match ups in the first game, but annihilated absolutely everything in the second one. Either way though, the bosses in both games are a definite highlight personally. They are fucking brilliant fun. Elden Ring, by comparison, has some of the worst boss encounters ever experienced in a souls-like.

I'm plodding my way through the first game and while it was debatable whether I was enjoying it in the first two regions, I have really got into it since, especially in the great fifth region. The level design, while never reaching FromSoftware's best works, has improved as the game goes on, the ninja mansion and the big battlefield being especially highlights.

It's the best of the Souls-likes I've played (though stacked up against Ashen and the original Lords of the Fallen isn't great competition to be fair) but for me comes in under all FromSoftware's I've played (Demon's through to DSIII so far).

The combat in Nioh is undoubtedly good, but I prefer the simplicity of the Souls games combat. I find it the same with shmups that utilise all the buttons on a controller rather than just a few, it slightly spoils my enjoyment when I lose from failings to remember which damn button I was wanting to press to get the desired result. Nioh very much is like that as I need to flick between different short cut menus mid combat and end up switching weapons by accident or getting the wrong menu and using the wrong item. I also can never be bothered to read and learn the various button combinations for certain moves (lazy I know). It does allow for great variety undoubtedly, but for the way my brain works, it isn't quite my bag; hence preferring the Souls games.
The bosses are all a reasonable standard (Umi-bozu being the worst so far) but I haven't found one that reaches the heights of FromSoftware's best. They all seem to go one of two ways, either I get murdered pretty quickly or they die rather easily. I rarely felt I had to knuckle down and learn the 'dance' that one does against the Fume Knights, Pontiffs and Ludwigs of FromSoftware. Instead it is the case of having good enough equipment, managing Ki and using the right spells/items before mullering them.
My post seems overly negative and I must admit to really enjoying it now. Far better than many other games I have played over the last few years to be honest.

The design of the bosses in Elden Ring are up there with the best but I just found the process of beating them to be among the worst of the entire genre. Its mainly due to them being balanced for muliplayer/summons so its just a pain in the arse to solo them.

I don't remember any particulary terrible or unfair bosses in Nioh and I didn't engage with the RPG mechanics or loot systems. The loot was such a mess and everything became obsolete so quickly that it wasn't worth paying attention to any attached stats. I just went with whatever light armour had the highest number and looked alright and put points into whatever weapon I was using (think I started with spear/katana and then switched to dual katanas)

I've never bothered with magic or anything fancy in any souls game so every boss is just a case of learning the patterns until you can win. Never had a boss that couldn't be beaten that way. Builds and specialised equipment certainly aren't a necessity and a lot of the time the strategies people suggest tend to undermine the challenge in my opinion. Of course a boss or enemy is going to be easier if it's moving at half the speed you are. I wouldn't call that a strategy (this is also why I can't understand someone being opposed to an easy mode but being perfectly happy to use something like that)

I think Sekiro is probably the better game but I'd sooner play Nioh again as you can bumble about more and have more options. I loved Sekiro but I'm not not sure if I could be arsed to put the time and effort in to learn it all again for what would essentially be the exact same experience. I tend to find souls games quite relaxing (they're challenging but you can't fail and the worst that can happen is you lose some souls which I've never found that devastating) but I wouldn't say that about Sekiro

I've been thinking about picking up a souls game as it's been ages since I last played one

What is Wo Long missing in terms of mechanics from Nioh? If it's basically Nioh without all the loot or magic, that sounds ideal

Might go for Lords of the Fallen but the performance on series X sounds a bit wanky

My previous post said, I do also generally find that Nioh's boss fights encourage an aggressive approach compared to other Souls games, Dark Realm or not... And conversely, that when you do have to turtle up and fight with attrition, things become frustrating.

As an example, I usually saved videos of my boss fights after winning (if I could figure out how to upload them from PS5 short of starting a proper YouTube account or something, I would have posted some 😅). My Orochi video I selected the three minute option and it barely caught half the fight... Meanwhile, with Hundred-Eyes I chose one minute and it caught part of the preceding cutscene too! Quite the difference here, and it's pretty much entirely because Orochi just isn't made to be rushed

I'm not sure tbh, I loved Wo Long, flawed though it may be, and appreciated its streamlined approach to builds. There is a lot of redundant loot still, though not as much as Nioh. 

LOTF: I've said it elsewhere, it could and hopefully will be brilliant, but steer clear of the series X version right now. 

Sounds like it might be worth playing, especially as you can't get Nioh on Xbox anyway

One thing I really liked about Nioh and something that made it much more fair than other soulsy style games is that enemies were subject to the same rules as you. They also have stamina bars that you can see and are fucked if they run out

And, for an earlier topic that I missed, I'll also have to disagree that Elden Ring had horrible bosses. They weren't all winners, certainly, but for the most part I did enjoy them. Even the Godskin Duo was somewhat fun... on my second playthrough with the trumpet at least

Probably the most frustrating part was having to fight Radagon plus Elden Beast every time, which I feel Nioh 1 did better (if you beat Kelley before Orochi, you only have to deal with Orochi afterwards)... But even that wasn't really a dealbreaker, just tougher than your average two-phase boss.

I mean, it is playable for sure, and you'll spend most of your time not really thinking about the issues to be fair. But then it will just go tits up - usually not entirely randomly, as discussed in the LOTF thread, it's areas that are heavy on particle effects - the Fen, Calrath etc. But it's happened elsewhere and it can genuinely end up being a meagre handful of FPS, a bizarre slideshow. 

Your first question is the key though - there's been no evidence that they've tried to fix this so far, even while they've patched other stuff across the versions. And that does annoy me. It really bloody annoys me, tbh.

I've no idea why it's much worse on series X but I would have bough the PS5 version if I'd known. 

I enjoyed wo long more. Sure it's easy to argue nioh 2 is the better game but wo long cuts out all the extra salad filler I'm not interested in and just gives me all the meat. The combat is so much fun and the bosses were a pleasure throughout to beat.

By contrast, I only needed one attempt against Boar Boy to realise that it wasn't going to happen tonight, and if I didn't want to go to bed angry, I'd be better off quitting while I wasn't too far behind.

I am

(Damn, I played that fight horribly at the end, looking at it now... He should have been dead the moment I used Yokai Shift and instead he got me to less than 100 health... Definitely a "How not to finish a fight"

Edit: yeah, him and especially the next one were a major case of me not taking my own advice. Way, way too passive, the type of play that should be reserved for Dojo missions )