rftp
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Post by rftp on Dec 2, 2024 18:51:59 GMT
I'm entirely unsure at this point why anyone think Biden should give a shit about anyone but his family. He's spent his life serving the country and the last four years trying to repair the damage of Trump's first term and in return he's just been given a massive finger for it by the US voters. I can imagine he's feeling rather like "well, fuck them" at the moment. And rightly so. He's going to retire and leave them to swim in the pool of shit they've poured for themselves. Because it's his job to serve the American people, not himself, and he swore an oath to do that. Practically everyone here has said it's understandable on a personal level.
It's not the same as using all your powers and fighting tooth and nail to combat actual issues. Biden and the Dems are pretty good managers, but they've done a pretty lousy job at shoring up US democracy and fixing underlying problems. Not to mention the most important thing when it comes to fixing Trump's mess; making sure he doesn't get a second term, which Biden torpedoed, seemingly out of hubris.
Fwiw, I personally don't think presidents should have the power to do this. But what you and I - and fuck it, the rest of the world - thinks right now is so much shit on a stick. I also think that the idea this is on Biden (and Kamala, and not having actual plans and policies etc etc) and not on the voting public is ridiculous nonsense, but there you go. |
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Post by simple on Dec 2, 2024 19:38:42 GMT
I can’t remember which thread I said it in but I think the common factor in elections now is that people are dissatisfied with life and just want change, any change.
Ireland switching which is the larger party in their coalition is the nearest to continuity anyone has got in awhile.
The Dems ran a campaign that missed the mark, no doubt, but I think now it looks like there wouldn’t have been anything an incumbent could have done to restore faith in democracy or whatever in the current mood.
One president pardoning his son’s crimes before handing over to another who will pardon himself hardly screams healthy society.
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Post by Chopsen on Dec 2, 2024 19:40:00 GMT
"Look what you made me do! I've become a nazi!"
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Post by Mark1412 on Dec 2, 2024 23:59:31 GMT
100% I'd have done the same for my kids. Only difference is I wouldn't have strung you all along for however long it's been. Can't judge.
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Post by Bill in the rain on Dec 3, 2024 1:29:43 GMT
I guess Biden was elected mainly on being a moderate who could work with the other side, and he did a reasonably good job on those terms. Problem is, that meant he didn't fix any of the big underlying issues.
What was probably needed was for a Dem leader to come in and immediately go hard on big changes and reforms, but then again, such a leader probably wouldn't have won in the first place.
Either way, they'd probably have lost, but they might at least have fixed a few things.
Biden seems to have left it to the last minute to try and do big things, which is way too late and he's not going to get anywhere now.
Maybe Starmer is right to go hard on painful reforms and 'rewiring' early, on the basis that he might not be around for a second term. (though he's yet to persuade me that what he's doing will actually achieve that, but that's for the other thread).
Pardoning Hunter, while understandable on a personal level, is just a very bad look when we were kind of looking to him to at least slightly uphold the idea that presidents and government have some character and sense of propriety, in the face of the other side who seemingly have none.
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MolarAm🔵
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Post by MolarAm🔵 on Dec 3, 2024 1:52:08 GMT
I actually think he's done a pretty good job overall, all things considered. He should have acted sooner on immigration and inflation, and he probably won't get any credit for the good his administration did (because people have very short memories, and don't know how politics and governments work). But there's a lot to be proud of over the last 4 years.
As previously stated, though, the Hunter thing is a big fail. He said he wouldn't do it, and he did!
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otto
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Post by otto on Dec 3, 2024 9:24:47 GMT
Grozoubinski said it best on Bluesky"I don't love it either, but I'm not sure how you tell a man that he should let his only surviving son rot in prison to respect norms, institutions, and the rule of law, when the country you devoted your life to serving just pretty comprehensively voted they don't give a shit about any of that."
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Tuffty
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Post by Tuffty on Dec 3, 2024 9:27:22 GMT
Think the whole stance on Gaza has really soured Bidens perception, particularly among young voters. All those who chose not to vote Democrat prob realising their error at upon hearing that Trump promises the US will take involvement and hit Gaza harder than ever before once he takes office unless the hostages are released.
All countries now holding their breath over stuff like this over the next 4 years
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Post by skalpadda on Dec 3, 2024 15:25:05 GMT
Aside from the whole election failure, Biden could have put people in charge of institutions that would actually shore them up and fight to get things done. Merrick Garland is the prime example, doing practically nothing of substance for four years despite having probably the most important job in the country after Biden himself. Could have booted him out and put someone else in at any point. Getting bogged down in things like student debt forgiveness was stupid. It's sensible policy in "peace time", but it's not going to win you the next election and it does nothing to defend your democratic institutions from Republican assaults.
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apollo
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Post by apollo on Dec 3, 2024 16:49:42 GMT
trump wants to speed run it
Even saw he wants to put 100% traffis on BRICS lot, but russia is a member, putin will not let him unless trump picks on brazil and SA
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Post by Whizzo on Dec 3, 2024 21:53:08 GMT
Shitty picture created by an AI that doesn't know geography for a brain addled rapist to spread around. |
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zagibu
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Post by zagibu on Dec 3, 2024 22:02:18 GMT
Lol, as if Trump would survive in that height. Fucking bottom dweller would suffocate in that thin air.
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askew
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Post by askew on Dec 3, 2024 22:34:30 GMT
The Matterhorn appears to have crossed the Atlantic
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Post by JuniorFE on Dec 3, 2024 22:59:44 GMT
The Matterhorn appears to have crossed the Atlantic It's the MAGAhorn now, Trump Executive Ordered it |
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Post by Syrette on Dec 4, 2024 0:11:57 GMT
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MolarAm🔵
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Post by MolarAm🔵 on Dec 4, 2024 2:22:55 GMT
This is exactly the problem. Not that Trump is going to use the pardon as an excuse to do whatever he wants (he would have done it anyway), but that it makes it more difficult for Democrats to say "hey, vote for us so we can get these corrupt clowns out of office and bring ethics back into politics". If you're running on ethics, you have to behave ethically, otherwise it makes no sense. And for people saying "I would have pardoned my son if I had that power"... maybe I would have too! But presidents are meant to be better than the average person, they're meant to be leaders and hold themselves to higher standards. It's what (in theory) makes the American system different from a tin pot dictatorship. |
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MolarAm🔵
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Post by MolarAm🔵 on Dec 4, 2024 2:24:46 GMT
And Biden knows it was wrong too. Otherwise he wouldn't have lied about it initially.
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lukasz
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Post by lukasz on Dec 4, 2024 4:47:12 GMT
This is exactly the problem. Not that Trump is going to use the pardon as an excuse to do whatever he wants (he would have done it anyway), but that it makes it more difficult for Democrats to say "hey, vote for us so we can get these corrupt clowns out of office and bring ethics back into politics". If you're running on ethics, you have to behave ethically, otherwise it makes no sense. And for people saying "I would have pardoned my son if I had that power"... maybe I would have too! But presidents are meant to be better than the average person, they're meant to be leaders and hold themselves to higher standards. It's what (in theory) makes the American system different from a tin pot dictatorship. Being better cost them election. People don't want morally better politicians |
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Post by Bill in the rain on Dec 4, 2024 4:53:35 GMT
There does seem to be a sizable group who actively like politicians who are bastards, whether they'd admit it aloud or not.
I don't really get why, but I wonder if they think the fact they're a callous bastard means they'll "get stuff done" that a nice guy wouldn't.
There was a local mayor over here recently who got called out for lots of workplace bullying etc.. even to the point where 2 people committed suicide. He was pretty much unrepentant and when he was finally forced to call an election he won again. *shrug*
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minimatt
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Post by minimatt on Dec 4, 2024 7:03:18 GMT
sado-populism innit. we're still the same dumb barbaric apes who crowded arenas to watch gladiators fight to the death or people ripped apart by lions, the same cruel baying mob who flocked to watch pulic executions violence, real or threatened, against "others" is what a substantial portion want, it only fails as a populist tactic when a majority fear they're at risk of becoming an "other".
it's why humanity is doomed to failure and not worth saving
/cheery motivational poster
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Post by Bill in the rain on Dec 4, 2024 7:13:08 GMT
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apollo
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Post by apollo on Dec 4, 2024 8:28:06 GMT
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Post by JuniorFE on Dec 4, 2024 9:14:29 GMT
And Biden knows it was wrong too. Otherwise he wouldn't have lied about it initially. I'm not entirely sure that it was a lie tbh. As he himself says in his statement: (emphasis mine) That, to me, says that Biden believed the electorate would see what he had seen (and, let's be blunt, what they SHOULD have seen) in Trump, namely that he's unfit for any office of importance higher than Milton's in Office Space, and would vote reasonably. I honestly believe that, had Kamala won (or, at the very least, had Trump not swept all three chambers) he wouldn't have pardoned Hunter, because there would be a reasonable administration coming in, one that wouldn't make him feel the need to protect his son like this in the first place. It's Trump's sweep and the looming hostile Congress that triggered it IMO. |
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zagibu
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Post by zagibu on Dec 4, 2024 9:28:04 GMT
I honestly believe that, had Kamala won (or, at the very least, had Trump not swept all three chambers) he wouldn't have pardoned Hunter Yep. The way it is now, it would have been dangerous to not do it. Also, they will have to honour the pardon, because otherwise they can't use pardoning themselves. |
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Post by JuniorFE on Dec 4, 2024 9:34:21 GMT
I honestly believe that, had Kamala won (or, at the very least, had Trump not swept all three chambers) he wouldn't have pardoned Hunter Yep. The way it is now, it would have been dangerous to not do it. Also, they will have to honour the pardon, because otherwise they can't use pardoning themselves. Well, that's assuming they care about being seen as hypocrites... Or is there a rule that if you override a pardon you cannot then pardon people yourself? (Not that Trump wouldn't ignore that as well...) |
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Post by JuniorFE on Dec 4, 2024 9:35:33 GMT
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zagibu
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Post by zagibu on Dec 4, 2024 12:04:36 GMT
Well, that's assuming they care about being seen as hypocrites... Or is there a rule that if you override a pardon you cannot then pardon people yourself? (Not that Trump wouldn't ignore that as well...) Yeah, I guess everything is possible. Would still be pretty hard to sell. |
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