Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Nov 13, 2024 9:44:52 GMT
The US government turning into a pump and dump crypto scheme is the kind of plot twist I wish I had the brains to write. Absolutely amazing. That's the thing. The main argument against Trump being the worst version of himself as portrayed by his detractors is that it would be implausibly outside the normal way things work for him to be able to do. Yet implausibly outside the normal way things work keep happening Yeah, it’s like a sixties sci-fi movie set in the 2000s. They couldn’t imagine the internet or mobile phones so we get flying cars. Most people can’t visualise the kind of dumb shit he will just blurt out. |
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senso
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Post by senso on Nov 13, 2024 9:49:33 GMT
This is America's new defence secretary:  Good luck, everyone. |
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Vortex
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Post by Vortex on Nov 13, 2024 10:27:45 GMT
We're DOOOOOMed.
/Private Fraser.
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Nov 13, 2024 10:38:41 GMT
One week on, and I'm still really fuckin' sad and angry about the whole thing. Sad on a selfish level, because a country I've loved since I was a kid (and somewhere I've always aspired to live) has shat the bed in such spectacular fashion; and sad on a more general basis, for all those who are going to be adversely affected by this for the next four years and beyond. Angry because so many Americans chose to vote for a Cheeto-skinned, belligerent, xenophonic, racist, misogynistic, senile, fascistic, narcissistic, demagogue rapist for a SECOND GODDAMN TIME, while so many others sat on their asses and refused to vote in the name of some trite 'principle' or other. I don't buy into the whole hand-wavy, blase, "The world isn't going to end!" narrative - being concerned about all the awful shit Trump and his cronies can pull during a second term isn't alarmist, and worrying about what the future holds for our planet doesn't make one Chicken Little.
So, yeah: sad and angry. That's where I am right now.
For fuck's sake.
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Tuffty
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Post by Tuffty on Nov 13, 2024 11:05:05 GMT
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Post by simple on Nov 13, 2024 11:14:20 GMT
His tattoos look like he walked into the shop and asked for everything swastika adjacent they had because he was too scared to ask for a custom piece
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Post by Jambowayoh on Nov 13, 2024 11:14:22 GMT
Ah man, I gotta say this is all chef's kiss. Drain the swamp indeed.
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otto
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Post by otto on Nov 13, 2024 11:16:22 GMT
Have we mentioned yet the irony of setting up a Department of Government Efficiency with *two* heads?
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Post by Jambowayoh on Nov 13, 2024 11:22:24 GMT
Yes, yes we have.
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otto
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Post by otto on Nov 13, 2024 11:24:32 GMT
Have we mentioned yet the irony of having twice mentioned setting up a Department of Government Efficiency with *two* heads?
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Post by Chopsen on Nov 13, 2024 11:24:40 GMT
You can't really say that you love a country and aspire to be part of it when it's done something by popular demand that you strongly object to on a fundamental, moral basis.
Strong main character vibes there! Or at best you've fallen in love with a fictionalised version of reality.
Bit like some posters calling for the US to be broken up couple of pages back.
Fucksakes guys. Are we asking for open elections and democracy or autocracy. Pick a lane. You don't get to change you stance on these principles because you don't like the result.
You trump is awful and yes there was relentless propaganda and yes lots of people are a bit stupid.
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Post by simple on Nov 13, 2024 11:27:20 GMT
Every post in that thread is like a pitch for a Zapp Brannigan episode |
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Post by Jambowayoh on Nov 13, 2024 11:27:39 GMT
That was Chopsen's long form GET A FUCKING GRIP!
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otto
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Post by otto on Nov 13, 2024 11:28:12 GMT
I dunno, I think this is where it gets complicated. If you "love a country", what does that mean? Probably that you stand for its ideals and values and principles, not necessarily that you will die in a ditch to preserve its fucked up stupid voting system or media culture or whatever. If a system keeps producing results that erode the things you love about a country then maybe you're going to start being a critic of that system.
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Post by Dougs on Nov 13, 2024 11:29:47 GMT
It's like nothing has changed in the last 8 years - on this side or the other side of the pond!
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Post by Chopsen on Nov 13, 2024 11:32:20 GMT
Yeah sure. Not to get too pretentious about this, but what even is a nation state but an imagined community in the abstract that only exists in the mind of those that belong to it.
But there's the rub: those that belong to it are the ones that get to decide what that means. Thyeb decided, overall, that that means something which is frankly baffling to a lot of us. But that's not on us to decide. It's on them. And they decided on trump. For reasons.
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otto
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Post by otto on Nov 13, 2024 11:45:26 GMT
Well, some of them did. Just as some of them here decided that their imagined community (which included the rest of us) shouldn't be in the EU. I think that what this teaches us is that we need to find ways to stop a small majority of stupid ignorant uninformed arsehole voters from making decisions that completely fuck over the rest of us.
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zagibu
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Post by zagibu on Nov 13, 2024 11:50:35 GMT
Yeah, also, when was the USA not shit? It has always been a warmongering hillbilly country with a few very productive cultural hotspots. Their achievements are much less impressive, when you consider the fact that they have an internal market of 300 million people speaking the same language.
Also, in my opinion, true greatness of a country is measured by how well off the poorest citizens are, and in this regard, the USA has always been far behind most other developed nations in the world.
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Vandelay
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Post by Vandelay on Nov 13, 2024 11:56:25 GMT
It isn't even a small majority. His active supporters are very much in a minority of the whole population.
According to Wikipedia (and it is just an estimate, as they are still counting) 63.5% of eligible voters voted. The count of the popular vote is actually looking like it will be much closer than it was originally appearing to be, so we are looking at roughly 31-32% of eligible US voters that voted for Trump.
Of courses, that would be the same for basically every winning President (and much higher than our Labour party got earlier in the year), but it does mean that you can't necessarily tar the whole country with the same brush.
Edit - to add to Zagibu's point, a quick look at the US infant mortal rates shows they are quite a long way from great.
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Post by Whizzo on Nov 13, 2024 11:57:06 GMT
His tattoos look like he walked into the shop and asked for everything swastika adjacent they had because he was too scared to ask for a custom piece I'm sure his tattoo that refers to a phrase from the First Crusade will go down well with the Middle East.
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apollo
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Post by apollo on Nov 13, 2024 12:05:49 GMT
I lived in the USA for a long while and its was never perfect but under Obama there was feel things getting better but under trump first term, things started to decline. People become openly racist and MURICA!!! GUNS AND JESUS FUCK YEAH!
Now with the start of the trump getting into to office it makes 2016 look like almost normal, some of the shit trump is looking to do and he is getting all the worst people in place. That defence secretary looks like he is alcoholic inbred redneck who fucks farm animals than claims "IMGRANTS TOOK HIS JORB!"
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Post by technoish on Nov 13, 2024 12:47:39 GMT
Putting two people in charge of a department to increase efficiency is some genius level thinking. Not only that, but heading a *newly created* department that has no (?) executive ability and can only make recommendations for the legislature to analyse, debate and then try to implement. Strong "xkcd too many standards" cartoon vibes. That is very simple to understand. If it was an official department then Musk would have to stop doing his day-job as he would have to meet conflict of interest standards, etc. |
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Post by Jambowayoh on Nov 13, 2024 12:50:21 GMT
Lol, lol, lol, lol. "Conflict of interests standards". Good one!
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Post by rawshark on Nov 13, 2024 12:52:24 GMT
Ulythium All I can add to this is I know how you feel. I've been going through the seven stages myself and have found myself floating back and forth between Anger and Fear/Depression for the most part of the last week. It looks bad, and it looks like it's only going to get worse, but at least there's a lot of people on this boat with you. My next stage of grief is going to involve the Wetherspoon's curry club vindaloo and at least three pints. Then it's back to rage the day after that. In the work toilets.
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otto
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Post by otto on Nov 13, 2024 12:58:26 GMT
My denial all happened before the actual election. Immediately after the election I felt gripped by depression to the point where I couldn't talk about it or look at the news or any commentary for a few days. That helped and I'm now back in the zone with anger and accepting that this is the shit we are now going to have to try to deal with.  |
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Nov 13, 2024 13:29:03 GMT
I dunno, I think this is where it gets complicated. If you "love a country", what does that mean? Probably that you stand for its ideals and values and principles, not necessarily that you will die in a ditch to preserve its fucked up stupid voting system or media culture or whatever. If a system keeps producing results that erode the things you love about a country then maybe you're going to start being a critic of that system.
I'm not going to get into it with Chopsen's post - he and I fundamentally disagree on this score, so debating it ad infinitum would be a waste of everyone's time - but Otto's response neatly encapsulates my thoughts on the matter.
I didn't throw my toys out of the pram when the US elected George W. Bush (twice!), or spearheaded the invasion of Iraq, or responded to Obama's election by starting the Tea Party movement, or any of the other shitty things it has seen and done in my lifetime. It's not perfect, but nothing is.
Even Trump's initial election in 2016, as much as it made me feel sick to my stomach, did nothing to alter my longstanding affection for the country.
Electing Trump again, though? After 'Stop the Steal', January 6, four years of increasingly-unhinged rhetoric, the ongoing erosion of women's rights, all the awful shit spelled out in Project 2025, and a whole lot more besides? Yeah, that has shaken my 'love' (for want of a less wanky word) for America to its core, and it still feels justified to me even now, a week after the fact.
It's an oft-lamented fact of democracy that sometimes the other side wins. We've all lived long enough to see Tory governments and Labour governments, Democrat administrations and Republican administrations - it's nothing new.
This, to me, feels different.
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Post by gibroon on Nov 13, 2024 13:31:59 GMT
My next stage of grief is going to involve the Wetherspoon's curry club vindaloo and at least three pints. Then it's back to rage the day after that. In the work toilets. Always wondered who drew the dick pics and swear words with bad spelling in the cubicles Eye luv yer werk! |
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Post by rawshark on Nov 13, 2024 14:09:58 GMT
My next stage of grief is going to involve the Wetherspoon's curry club vindaloo and at least three pints. Then it's back to rage the day after that. In the work toilets. Always wondered who drew the dick pics and swear words with bad spelling in the cubicles Eye luv yer werk! Call me for a good time. |
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Post by Whizzo on Nov 13, 2024 14:52:07 GMT
This, to me, feels different.
In one rather huge respect electing Trump again is different, Trump was always thought of as being very dodgy but he's now been convicted on dozens of offences, incited an insurrection, legally found to be a rapist and is very obviously not mentally sound.
I'm not sure about anyone else, certainly not to 70 odd million Americans, to me that makes him unsuitable a person to run a paper shop let alone be the President.
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apollo
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Post by apollo on Nov 13, 2024 14:59:09 GMT
Exxon the oil giant is asking trump not to withdraw from the paris climate pact. Its heard to believe oil giant will say this but here we are. Sure trump will ask for a bribe from them to not withdraw
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