rawshark
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Post by rawshark on Jun 28, 2024 8:32:15 GMT
It would take Taylor Swift to help us now.
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Post by manfromdelmonte on Jun 28, 2024 8:43:23 GMT
Thing is if Trump behaves in the WH as we all expect him to do then surely a civil war is a real possibility, then the question becomes "well, what sort of American are you?". That's the thing, it's such a variable what he might actually do, and not do in power. When he got in, in 2016 he'd said Hilary Clinton would be locked up and they had a replacement for Obama care on day one. None of which he even attempted. Baring cutting corporate taxes, what did he actually do in power. It's largely all noise and no substance, but is the desperation of this being his last throw of the dice going to harden his resolve? Things that can never happen, can never happen, until they happen all at once. If Trump does choose to play fuck about, the whole of America could be finding out for a long time.
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Jun 28, 2024 8:49:40 GMT
Well, this certainly wasn't the news I'd hoped to see this morning.
It's not as though things were looking good for the Democrats before the debate. Now, though? Fuuuccckkkk.
I don't see Biden being replaced four months before the election. Even if a viable candidate were available, it'd be suicidal.
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Post by Jambowayoh on Jun 28, 2024 9:01:50 GMT
Thing is if Trump behaves in the WH as we all expect him to do then surely a civil war is a real possibility, then the question becomes "well, what sort of American are you?". That's the thing, it's such a variable what he might actually do, and not do in power. When he got in, in 2016 he'd said Hilary Clinton would be locked up and they had a replacement for Obama care on day one. None of which he even attempted. Baring cutting corporate taxes, what did he actually do in power. It's largely all noise and no substance, but is the desperation of this being his last throw of the dice going to harden his resolve? Things that can never happen, can never happen, until they happen all at once. If Trump does choose to play fuck about, the whole of America could be finding out for a long time. I would advise people to check out Project 2025 about the plan for the people around him, the true believers not the yes men, when they get into power.
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Post by Dougs on Jun 28, 2024 9:06:36 GMT
Thing is if Trump behaves in the WH as we all expect him to do then surely a civil war is a real possibility, then the question becomes "well, what sort of American are you?". That's the thing, it's such a variable what he might actually do, and not do in power. When he got in, in 2016 he'd said Hilary Clinton would be locked up and they had a replacement for Obama care on day one. None of which he even attempted. Baring cutting corporate taxes, what did he actually do in power. It's largely all noise and no substance, but is the desperation of this being his last throw of the dice going to harden his resolve? Things that can never happen, can never happen, until they happen all at once. If Trump does choose to play fuck about, the whole of America could be finding out for a long time. Difference this time around is there's lots of work gone on behind the scenes to implement the radical ideas conservatives have. John Oliver did a section on it the other week. They'll be in a much stronger position this time. Edit: jambo beat me
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JonFE
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Post by JonFE on Jun 28, 2024 9:11:54 GMT
They need to beg Michelle Obama to run. QFT, if anyone is capable to do it is Michelle with Kamala as her VP.
Just wait for the GOP meltdown if they get to stand against two black women, it will be glorious
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Post by MegaChad Sigma. on Jun 28, 2024 9:18:13 GMT
It's odd, the most powerful job in the World. You'd think they'd be a long list of potentials from a population of 300+ million Americans.
With Trump it's got to be timing, the left v right zeitgeist has eliminated any more moderate options. No one else symbolises white male privilege and the "status quo" in times of social change.
But Biden? How the fuck has a Democratic party decided he is their best option?
They've handed this election to Trump on a platter.
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rawshark
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Post by rawshark on Jun 28, 2024 9:44:37 GMT
Liz Truss, Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson are all treating themselves to a celebratory wank today.
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Jun 28, 2024 9:46:45 GMT
Even that mental image doesn't disturb me as much as the prospect of a second Trump term.
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Post by Jambowayoh on Jun 28, 2024 9:48:45 GMT
Liz Truss, Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson are all treating themselves to a celebratory wank today. Brings a new meaning to "pork markets"!
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Post by peekconfusion on Jun 28, 2024 9:57:31 GMT
It's odd, the most powerful job in the World. You'd think they'd be a long list of potentials from a population of 300+ million Americans. With Trump it's got to be timing, the left v right zeitgeist has eliminated any more moderate options. No one else symbolises white male privilege and the "status quo" in times of social change. But Biden? How the fuck has a Democratic party decided he is their best option? They've handed this election to Trump on a platter. If they have handed the election to Trump, it'll be because half of them have been sat on their arses whining about Biden instead of coming up with a plan for how to beat not just Trump, but the Republicans in general. Where's their response to the Project 2025 stuff? The Supreme Court makeup? The fact that their main opposition is on the hook for literally hundreds of millions of dollars in fines? If the Republicans can apparently make it so it doesn't matter that Trump is a criminal rapist (who also had question marks over his mental capacity), yet the Democrats get undone by this, they deserve to lose.
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Post by JuniorFE on Jun 28, 2024 10:57:59 GMT
I'm not going to sit here and pretend that this debate is going to help Biden, but he at least was answering the questions posed to him. Trump babbling his same two (false) talking points in response to everything doesn't make him any less wrong (or nonsensical) just because he was louder (and let's not get into shit like admitting live on air that "Putin told me it was his dream to invade Ukraine"...)
The debate was a shitshow for them both. Trump because it showed yet again that he's insane and Biden because he presented himself weak, even though he at least was making sense. There's (at least) one more debate, four more months before the election where anything could happen and the average American has the election attention span of about a week. If Trump does get elected (all gods forbid) it will not be because of last night alone
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Post by Bill the kidding on Jun 28, 2024 12:18:23 GMT
They really needed some kind of on-screen fact checking.
The problem with replacing Biden is that all the obvious candidates aren't White Men. And they need to appeal to all the almost-Trump voters. That was kinda why Biden got picked in the first place.
Michelle Obama might be able to do it anyway, but I'm not sure anyone else could.
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MolarAm🔵
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Post by MolarAm🔵 on Jun 28, 2024 12:31:32 GMT
I've defended Biden before. But at this point, I feel like he probably needs to step aside.
I've nfi who would take his place, and it might not make any difference. But right now the campaign feels like it's in a tailspin, and there's not enough time to move out of it before the election.
It's really, really fucking unfair, because he seems like a nice dude who, on the whole, has had a pretty productive presidency. He doesn't get credit for any of it, and that is truly fucked. But he's going to lose all the same, and if replacing him is going to stop the orange idiot from getting in, then that's what needs to happen.
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Post by MegaChad Sigma. on Jun 28, 2024 12:41:29 GMT
Liz Truss, Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson are all treating themselves to a celebratory wank today. Brings a new meaning to "pork markets"! I'll pork YOUR market.
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Post by Jambowayoh on Jun 28, 2024 12:42:38 GMT
Well there's that and but also a fair few people are single issue voters and if one thing is checked off then it overrides everything else. Let's also not discount the not unsubstantial amount of folk who are unhappy with Biden due to Israel which baffles me because the government is not going to suddenly do a 180 on its foreign policy in that area. So they'll just abstain and let a god awful human being into power because "they're all the same".
It genuinely upsets me.
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Post by Vandelay on Jun 28, 2024 12:43:38 GMT
Also at the same place. Also defended Biden and often felt the age issue is overly exaggerated. The presidency seems to have done pretty well, with the Green New Deal and the economy supposedly doing well, despite the global issues. It appears a simple choice to me and I've thought for a while that the polling would change when we get nearer the date.
But this is more important than being nice to a seemingly good guy doing a pretty good job and very public humiliations like the debate are only going to move the needle in the wrong direction. A Trump v2.0 presidency could potentially lead America into a very dark place, but it would undoubtedly be disastrous for the rest of the world. The Democrats should be doing anything to prevent it happening and if that means replacing Biden then so be it.
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Post by Jambowayoh on Jun 28, 2024 12:45:16 GMT
I'm sure old man Bernie is waiting in the wings ready for his turn for all his bros.
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Post by technoish on Jun 28, 2024 12:46:22 GMT
People forget how good a politician Biden is and how much he manages to get done knocking heads together / negotiating with friends and foe across the house and senate. He's got a really well functioning executive machine. It's not so simple as just having somebody else decent step in.
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Post by grey_matters on Jun 28, 2024 12:47:45 GMT
People forget how good a politician Biden is and how much he manages to get done knocking heads together / negotiating with friends and foe across the house and senate. He's got a really well functioning executive machine. It's not so simple as just having somebody else decent step in. He could run as vice president to Kamala?
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Post by Reviewer on Jun 28, 2024 13:13:28 GMT
I think people know Biden is a good politician, the problem is how much of his time he manages that at his age.
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Post by Whizzo on Jun 28, 2024 13:27:54 GMT
I think the problem with Biden became obvious when Harris never seemed to work as VP, you can't groom someone as a replacement if they're unpopular and pretty much anonymous.
Most people assumed Biden would be a single term president, on last night's performance he will be but not because he's handing the throne on to someone else but because he loses the election.
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Post by jimnastics on Jun 28, 2024 13:33:27 GMT
I think the problem with Biden became obvious when Harris never seemed to work as VP, you can't groom someone as a replacement if they're unpopular and pretty much anonymous. I think most people assumed Biden would be a single term president, on last night's performance he will be but not because he's handing the throne on to someone else but because he loses the election. What actually happened with Harris? When Biden became President, it was pretty much agreed that she would be groomed to run in 2024. Now look at the fucking state of things. Did she screw up badly at some point?
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Post by Dougs on Jun 28, 2024 13:35:10 GMT
Wss just going to ask the same thing.
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Post by peekconfusion on Jun 28, 2024 13:43:06 GMT
She didn't have the charisma required to get past the fact that she's a Black woman in America in 2024.
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Post by Bill the kidding on Jun 28, 2024 13:44:37 GMT
Was it ever agreed, or just assumed?
I always assumed Biden was going to be a one term president, but the dems started putting out pretty early that he was going for a second term.
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Post by jimnastics on Jun 28, 2024 13:50:41 GMT
Was it ever agreed, or just assumed? I always assumed Biden was going to be a one term president, but the dems started putting out pretty early that he was going for a second term. Yeah bad choice of word, by "agreed" I meant us plebs agreed amongst ourselves that was probably the case!
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Post by tonyferrino on Jun 28, 2024 13:55:19 GMT
I think Newsome seems to be the most competent appearing, electable face but like someone said earlier, parachuting a white guy in to replace Kamala may go down so badly with the democratic core voters that it is counterproductive,in the usual lefty shooting themselves in the foot kind of way.
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Post by Bill the kidding on Jun 28, 2024 14:02:17 GMT
Has there actually ever been an intentional single-term president who handed off to their vice president? I assumed it would happen, but I guess it's probably a lot harder and more unlikely in reality.
The VP role tends to be pretty anonymous, and I think most VPs who have later become president have done so after the president finished their two terms, or at a later election. (or after the president dies in office or gets assassinated, which seems to have happened more than you'd expect). I guess it is inflation (and immigration, sigh) that is killing Biden, because from the outside it seems weird as the US economy seems to be doing way better than most of the rest of us.
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Post by Jambowayoh on Jun 28, 2024 14:02:22 GMT
I believe Newsom is the pick for next election if Democrats ever get back into government after the MAGA faithful have done their damage.
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