MolarAm🔵
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Post by MolarAm🔵 on Jun 28, 2024 14:07:09 GMT
I guess it is inflation (and immigration, sigh) that is killing Biden, because from the outside it seems weird that as the US economy seems to be doing way better than most of the rest of us. It is weird. But then, more than half of Americans think that the American economy is in recession, so maybe the answer is just that Americans don't know what reality is.
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Zyrr
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Post by Zyrr on Jun 28, 2024 14:23:58 GMT
If Trump wins I don't ever see there being another free and fair election in the US. Just look at the manifesto for Project 2025 to see how they're going to restructure the government. He's been taking notes from Putin, Orbán, etc.
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MolarAm🔵
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Post by MolarAm🔵 on Jun 28, 2024 14:31:39 GMT
I'm not convinced it's going to be the end of the world. Which isn't to say that I want Trump to get in, but I'm pretty sure we can survive another 4 years of it if we have to.
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Jun 28, 2024 14:36:15 GMT
At the time, I also thought that Biden was signing on for one term - beat Trump in the election, steady the ship, and get behind Harris as the Dems' candidate for 2024. I don't know whether this was a mistaken belief on my part, or whether the original plan changed at some point; either way, sticking with Biden has never looked like a bigger cock-up than it does right now. And just to be clear, I like Biden. I respect him enormously for all he has accomplished in his career; I loved him for kicking Trump's ass in 2020; and it's unfair in the extreme that his political swansong is playing out like this.
He deserves better.
Then again, we all* deserve better than Trump Mk. II... and if there was a realistic hope of avoiding that outcome by ditching Biden, I'd jump at the chance regardless of how unfair it would be.
* Except for the MAGA idiots, who deserve to have their faces eaten by leopards.
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Post by Mr Wonderstuff on Jun 28, 2024 14:46:20 GMT
I believe Newsom is the pick for next election if Democrats ever get back into government after the MAGA faithful have done their damage. You do realise that if Trump gets in there will not be a 'next election'.
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lukasz
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Post by lukasz on Jun 28, 2024 14:50:30 GMT
Republicans were not prepared for what it means for trump to be in charge. This time definitely they are. They might not succeed and it wont be the end of the world but they will damage the country.
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cubby
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Post by cubby on Jun 28, 2024 15:14:58 GMT
What about one of the Kennedy's, they're still popular right?
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Post by Jambowayoh on Jun 28, 2024 15:15:12 GMT
I believe Newsom is the pick for next election if Democrats ever get back into government after the MAGA faithful have done their damage. You do realise that if Trump gets in there will not be a 'next election'. Well that's why I wrote "if".
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Post by Jambowayoh on Jun 28, 2024 15:17:13 GMT
Republicans were not prepared for what it means for trump to be in charge. This time definitely they are. They might not succeed and it wont be the end of the world but they will damage the country. The Republicans, well what we would call republicans, aren't in charge any more. It's a new breed, a Christofacsist breed. The people who were like Mitt Romney, McCain, they're not controlling it anymore.
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Post by 😎 on Jun 28, 2024 16:17:19 GMT
Well, not really. It'll be shit if Trump gets in, but I still don't think it'll be the End of US Democracy As We Know It. Despite all the fancy literature around things like Project 2025 and the Christian Nationalists, they're still mostly filled with incompetent people who will infight too much to accomplish anything significant. The pattern that's consistently emerging is they have a hot moment of the limelight and then wither and die accomplishing nothing, getting voted out or recalled if they even make it in anywhere. That's happened at the local level even in solid red states where the Moms for Liberty and Stop Woke bullshit has been thoroughly rejected after making lots of noise.
The most likely outcome is that his rich mates will get a little richer, he'll probably die of poor health, and whoever his VP pick is will struggle to do anything and be completely out of their depth and end up with a blue wave if and when the Dems decide to get their shit together.
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Post by JuniorFE on Jun 28, 2024 16:20:55 GMT
I don't even want to risk that outcome tbh. The choice isn't great, but it's what the voters have, and I'd take old and senile Biden a thousand times over anything that gives the Republicans power at this point
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rawshark
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Post by rawshark on Jun 28, 2024 16:23:15 GMT
I liked it when Larry David played Bernie Sanders on SNL. Can we not just get him in to say “I’ll take it from here, Joe”.
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Jun 28, 2024 16:35:32 GMT
JuniorFE Same here. Will Trump 2.0 mean "the End of US Democracy As We Know It"? Probably not...
... But if the main (only?) impediment thereto is the MAGA crowd's stupidity, and their proven inability to work together in pursuit of a common goal, that's pretty goddamn horrifying.
Not effective opposition; not a Democratic victory; not checks and balances; not the rule of law; not the Constitution; just the wannabe fascists' incompetence.
Yes, the Dems need to get their shit together, but woe betide us all if the Trumpists ever do.
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malek86
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Post by malek86 on Jun 28, 2024 17:07:06 GMT
How many times has it happened that a president didn't get picked by their party for a second term? I think Biden was always going to be the most obvious candidate, no matter how bad an idea it may have seemed.
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zephro
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Post by zephro on Jun 28, 2024 20:45:37 GMT
I didn't watch the debate. The thing that strikes me is that US politics while not having the same manifesto / party system of the rest of us, still maintains an insane level of deferential nonsense. In the UK I suspect Biden and Trump after both of their relative failures would have been fucking knifed in the back by their own parties in a way US politics seems incapable of.
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Post by lordofthedunce on Jun 28, 2024 22:45:52 GMT
I didn't watch the debate. The thing that strikes me is that US politics while not having the same manifesto / party system of the rest of us, still maintains an insane level of deferential nonsense. In the UK I suspect Biden and Trump after both of their relative failures would have been fucking knifed in the back by their own parties in a way US politics seems incapable of. Exactly. That either of them is running is utterly nuts.
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Post by Dougs on Jun 28, 2024 22:46:27 GMT
Frank Underwood showed how it's done.
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zephro
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Post by zephro on Jun 28, 2024 23:13:37 GMT
Yeah though being based on a UK show about the Whips Office, my impression is US politics is no way near as ruthless as all that.
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Post by Bill the kidding on Jun 29, 2024 2:10:14 GMT
I'm not sure a Trump victory is going to bed the end of democracy as we know it. But it is going to screw up a lot of stuff like Ukraine in the meantime.
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Post by grey_matters on Jun 29, 2024 4:14:32 GMT
I didn't watch the debate. The thing that strikes me is that US politics while not having the same manifesto / party system of the rest of us, still maintains an insane level of deferential nonsense. In the UK I suspect Biden and Trump after both of their relative failures would have been fucking knifed in the back by their own parties in a way US politics seems incapable of. And then replaced by May. And then Johnson. And then Truss(!!). And then Sunak.
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Post by JuniorFE on Jun 29, 2024 11:42:33 GMT
I'm not sure a Trump victory is going to bed the end of democracy as we know it. But it is going to screw up a lot of stuff like Ukraine in the meantime. About that... www.thenation.com/article/society/chevron-deference-supreme-court-power-grab/This after a ruling a few days ago that "bribes are pretty okay actually" (paraphrasing). And if Trump gets in, (at least) two "Justices" can immediately retire to be replaced by young up-and-comers (like Cannon, who's doing everything she can and cannot to stall the classified documents case) ready to keep the Supreme Court conservative and the closest thing to all-powerful for the majority of many people's lifetimes...
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Post by skalpadda on Jun 29, 2024 13:43:24 GMT
I don't take much comfort from their general incometence and the last Trump administration's (relative) inabiliby to get stuff done. In part because there are just fewer brakes in place in congress and the courts this time, but even if there aren't any giant disasters the ongoing regulatory capture and erosion of democracy will fuck things up for decades. Even if it's only four years the dems would need to go scorched earth to even start unfucking things once they get back in power, similar to what's being done in Poland now, and they've never shown the willingness or competence to actually fight like that.
And I don't think it will stop if Trump falls over and dies after a week in office either. This lunacy has been steadily gaining since the Tea Party movement and Dubya. Trump is the current fulcrum, but there will be something/someone else once he's gone. Half the voting population of the US wants this and they will latch onto whatever is presented to them.
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Post by 😎 on Jun 29, 2024 16:17:22 GMT
I’m not too worried about the Supreme Court in general. It’s a shit show for sure but almost everything they have planned and everything terrible they could do is hinging on a clean sweep of Presidency, House and Senate, with enough margins to push it all through. I don’t see that happening, especially with how absolutely fragmented the GOP is in house. The continuing debacle with House Speaker positions is testament to that.
To be clear I’m not suggesting everything would be good, it would obviously be a shitshow with lots of ramifications and a terrible time for a lot of folks, but I also think it would be a recoverable one, especially once Trump is gone and they lose their figurehead. I’m also still confident (maybe naively) there’s enough reasonable people to not let it happen. There’s lots of little signs that I take as a better measure than contextless snap polls, like this time in 2020 my subdivision had a ton of Trump flags and signs already, but I haven’t seen a single one yet so far this time around.
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lukasz
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Post by lukasz on Jul 1, 2024 14:46:14 GMT
So supreme court just ruled that president is immune completely as long as what he does is official.
And he decides what's official.
So cute. What a frigging shit show.
Biden has a power to declare people terrorists. Not sure if somebody else has to approve it but can do without congress I think?
Can he just make trump enemy of the state and drone him?
Official act of presidency.
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Post by technoish on Jul 1, 2024 14:48:41 GMT
For a country devoted to freedom they sure know how to limit it in the face of authority.
There's something similar for police, who get qualified immunity. Means if they break the law while doing their job they can personally not be prosecuted, although it can be waived in certain circumstances.
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Post by Dougs on Jul 1, 2024 14:52:12 GMT
What an absolute basket case.
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Vandelay
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Post by Vandelay on Jul 1, 2024 15:01:43 GMT
I for one am shocked that the Supreme Court that Trump stacked with his allies has sided with him!
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Post by peekconfusion on Jul 1, 2024 15:09:10 GMT
TBF, it's not that surprising a ruling. 8 guess the devil will be in the detail of what is considered an "official act".
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Post by Bill the kidding on Jul 1, 2024 15:10:56 GMT
If I was Biden I'd immediately make 2 official acts.
1 - Ban Trump from the upcoming election. 2 - Remove 6 Supreme Court Justices.
See how that goes down.
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Post by Jambowayoh on Jul 1, 2024 15:19:48 GMT
What a totally fucking normal country.
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