Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Nov 28, 2023 9:02:30 GMT
The problem with Spider-Man in general is that its really easy to make everything about how being a superhero = torture for Peter. He's never just in a story, he always is the story. He is always paying some kind of price for choosing this life, he is always the architect of his own downfall, he always creates his own misery and always fucking up the life of everyone around him.
One of the great things about the Raimi movies is that they (sometimes) showed how Spidey is a completely different person from Peter and how much Pete enjoys it. The new movies are just Peter with and without a mask getting shat on like he was bitten by a radioactive buttmonkey.
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Post by rawshark on Nov 28, 2023 11:57:16 GMT
One of the great things about the first two Raimi movies is that they... Sorry.
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wunty
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Pastry Forward
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Post by wunty on Nov 28, 2023 12:05:19 GMT
My boy actually prefers the third one. I know it's not as good as the other two but it's still decent. Blasphemous perhaps but I would watch any of the three Raimi films over any Spidey film that's come out since. I really don't like the new three at all. The second in particular was just fucking crap.
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Post by rawshark on Nov 28, 2023 12:30:14 GMT
Personally, and I tried to go back and view it in a better light, I just can’t be positive about Spider-Man 3. There’s just too much stuff that’s outright bad about it.
I can understand criticism of the newer ones, and Amazing Spider-Man 2 is objectively just a poor film, but the jazz bar scene, the alien suits’ sinister influence being limited to strutting and selfishly eating cookies, the English news reporter, the bloated running time, the ham-fisted melodrama, the jumps in story logic… it’s just a terrible, terrible film. Parts of it are Batman & Robin bad.
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Post by clemfandango on Nov 28, 2023 12:35:47 GMT
Rocky IV: Rocky vs. Drago - The Ultimate Director's Cut - 10/10
My second viewing last night and it gets better with repeat viewing. Literally no fat on this version but somehow manages to give all the main cast more character and makes you care more. The fights are much improved/longer and the montage(s) are still the gold standard in Montages.
If you haven't watched it, just get it watched as you won't regret it.
Also the Count of Monte Fisto is the greatest boxing nickname ever....
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Post by Vandelay on Nov 28, 2023 12:36:56 GMT
Re: Spidey 3
It's really not good. I wouldn't go as far as saying it is Batman & Robin bad, but some of it is probably Batman Forever bad.
There are some good parts. I think the Harry/Green Goblin stuff is pretty good. If the film had of just focused on that and being a culmination of the arc that had been running through all three films, I think it could have been really great. They tried to cram in way too much though (and mean Pete was all cringe).
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Post by clemfandango on Nov 28, 2023 12:37:32 GMT
Personally, and I tried to go back and view it in a better light, I just can’t be positive about Spider-Man 3. There’s just too much stuff that’s outright bad about it. I can understand criticism of the newer ones, and Amazing Spider-Man 2 is objectively just a poor film, but the jazz bar scene, the alien suits’ sinister influence being limited to strutting and selfishly eating cookies, the English news reporter, the bloated running time, the ham-fisted melodrama, the jumps in story logic… it’s just a terrible, terrible film. Parts of it are Batman & Robin bad. I agree with all that yet it's still my fourth favourite live action spiderman film... Spiderman 1 Spiderman 2 Spiderman No way home Spiderman 3 Then all the other ones
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Post by clemfandango on Nov 28, 2023 12:40:38 GMT
My boy actually prefers the third one. I know it's not as good as the other two but it's still decent. Blasphemous perhaps but I would watch any of the three Raimi films over any Spidey film that's come out since. I really don't like the new three at all. The second in particular was just fucking crap. Yeah I recently did the trilogy with my eldest daughter and she liked three the most too.
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Post by rhaegyr on Nov 28, 2023 12:45:03 GMT
I hated it at the time but now whenever I see Tobey Maguire dancing down the street with his new emo hair cut and clicking his fingers I can't help but laugh.
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Post by simple on Nov 28, 2023 12:54:11 GMT
I like the two Schumacher Batman movies. They’re camp as tits daft romps.
And the most egregious thing about Spidey 3 for me is the way they hide the final battle behind the news report. The rest is a bit silly but that bit felt like Raimi was really checked out on the series.
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Post by Jambowayoh on Nov 28, 2023 13:05:57 GMT
Personally, and I tried to go back and view it in a better light, I just can’t be positive about Spider-Man 3. There’s just too much stuff that’s outright bad about it. I can understand criticism of the newer ones, and Amazing Spider-Man 2 is objectively just a poor film, but the jazz bar scene, the alien suits’ sinister influence being limited to strutting and selfishly eating cookies, the English news reporter, the bloated running time, the ham-fisted melodrama, the jumps in story logic… it’s just a terrible, terrible film. Parts of it are Batman & Robin bad. Oh god the English news reporter. I cringed inside myself watching that the first time.
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kal
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Post by kal on Nov 28, 2023 13:12:35 GMT
… the alien suits’ sinister influence being limited to strutting and selfishly eating cookies Superman 3 always cracks me up in this respect. “Evil Superman” is limited to five o clock shadow, getting a bit pissed and walking down the street being slightly rude to people. He’s really not evil at all. I act like that most of the time.
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Post by rawshark on Nov 28, 2023 13:20:41 GMT
I like the two Schumacher Batman movies. They’re camp as tits daft romps. And the most egregious thing about Spidey 3 for me is the way they hide the final battle behind the news report. The rest is a bit silly but that bit felt like Raimi was really checked out on the series. Yeah, was going to say it really felt like Raimi stopped caring by that point. I wonder if anyone in the film’s heart was really in it.
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Post by drhickman1983 on Nov 28, 2023 13:26:29 GMT
It's safe to say Spider-Man 3 had a lot of studio interference and Raimi has said he didn't really believe in the characters - he has been fairly open that he doesn't like Venom but Sony made him shoe horn the character into the film.
So if it feels like Raimi's heart wasn't in that film it's because it wasn't.
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Post by clemfandango on Nov 28, 2023 13:32:54 GMT
Venom is a bit shite in general, I read spiderman comics as a kid but it was before venom was created so I only knew of him through a few cartoons etc. If the character is like the Tom Hardy portrayal then he's crap and Tophers version was much better...
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Post by simple on Nov 28, 2023 13:41:47 GMT
Raimi wanted to do the Vulture for the third film, didn’t he?
After the hospital scene in 2 I bet he could have had fun doing weird aging/de-aging stuff with the character.
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kal
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Post by kal on Nov 28, 2023 13:55:23 GMT
Venom is insanely popular with kids. Probably moreso than Spider-Man. It really resonates for some reason.
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Post by rawshark on Nov 28, 2023 14:06:55 GMT
Venom is a funny one. Initially he started out as “spider-man but bad” and eventually became “brain eating monster”. I think they were aiming for the former with Spider-Man 3 but as English reporter told us, no one was confused with his identity as they somehow already knew he was called Venom.
I didn’t mention Thomas Haden Church - he looked like he was trying. I’d like to see a revised version that skipped Venom and focused on Sandman. Maybe keep the black costume to set up for Venom in the next film but we could really have done without Venom in the film.
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Post by simple on Nov 28, 2023 14:31:57 GMT
Venom is insanely popular with kids. Probably moreso than Spider-Man. It really resonates for some reason. I just got halfway through typing a theory of how he debuts around the same time as Miller’s Daredevil, Moore’s Batman and the Punisher mini-series and what that represented for comics but honestly I think the reason he’s got such a big fanboy favourite reputation is that Mcfarlane drew him looking real cool
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kal
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Post by kal on Nov 28, 2023 14:35:17 GMT
Venom is insanely popular with kids. Probably moreso than Spider-Man. It really resonates for some reason. I just got halfway through typing a theory of how he debuts around the same time as Miller’s Daredevil, Moore’s Batman and the Punisher mini-series and what that represented for comics but honestly I think the reason he’s got such a big fanboy favourite reputation is that Mcfarlane drew him looking real cool Yeah it’s totally McFarlane. It’s not just the way he drew it, it’s his whole schtick. Venom is popular for all the same reasons Spawn is popular. Also the black suit was and is cool. Especially the OG slightly purple one (which again was McFarlane).
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wunty
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Pastry Forward
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Post by wunty on Nov 28, 2023 14:41:07 GMT
Personally, and I tried to go back and view it in a better light, I just can’t be positive about Spider-Man 3. There’s just too much stuff that’s outright bad about it. I can understand criticism of the newer ones, and Amazing Spider-Man 2 is objectively just a poor film, but the jazz bar scene, the alien suits’ sinister influence being limited to strutting and selfishly eating cookies, the English news reporter, the bloated running time, the ham-fisted melodrama, the jumps in story logic… it’s just a terrible, terrible film. Parts of it are Batman & Robin bad. Oh god the English news reporter. I cringed inside myself watching that the first time. I've said this before but what makes her scenes even weirder is knowing she died just a couple of years later.
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geefe
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Post by geefe on Nov 28, 2023 14:45:46 GMT
I saw Spiderman Trois once, in the cinema and it seems I've forgotten most of it. I remember the dancing and Sandman killed his uncle. That's it.
I feel lucky.
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askew
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Post by askew on Nov 28, 2023 15:09:09 GMT
Intermission:
A Streetcar Named Desire and Rebel Without A Cause are both 3.99 at the moment over at iTunes.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Nov 28, 2023 15:17:05 GMT
I think its time for a critical reappraisal. I think it was overly ragged on initially but if you watch it now its still a different gravy to the production line shite that gets pumped out now. Just the way its edited elevates it over most other superhero movies.
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Post by Bill in the rain on Nov 28, 2023 15:34:30 GMT
My kids liked 3 as well. I think it's just a fun movie with lots of cool villains in it. It's not particularly great if you think about it too much, but kids generally don't.
I'm surprised to see so many people bashing the new Spiderman movies though. I prefer the first 2 raimi ones, but I think all 3 of the Holland ones are pretty good. Though the Raimi ones have more character in the editing.
The problem with spiderman as a character is he never bloody shuts up. Hence why he works better as a side character or part of an ensemble.
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kal
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Post by kal on Nov 28, 2023 15:39:26 GMT
I think it’s time for a critical reappraisal. I think it was overly ragged on initially but if you watch it now it’s still a different gravy to the production line shite that gets pumped out now. Just the way it’s edited elevates it over most other superhero movies. I tell you what’s definitely due reappraisal. Ang Lee’s Hulk. The CGI is ropey and dated, and I don’t think he really ‘got’ the character. But it captures the feel of comics and comic book storytelling in a way that none of the recent DC or Marvel films do. Popeye, Dick Tracy and Hulk make a slightly strange but very interesting trilogy of films that actually capture the spirit of comics themselves, not just representations of the characters. All three are worth a watch.
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cubby
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doesn't get subtext
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Post by cubby on Nov 28, 2023 15:41:01 GMT
I like how green he is in that movie.
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Post by rhaegyr on Nov 28, 2023 15:43:28 GMT
I think it’s time for a critical reappraisal. I think it was overly ragged on initially but if you watch it now it’s still a different gravy to the production line shite that gets pumped out now. Just the way it’s edited elevates it over most other superhero movies. I tell you what’s definitely due reappraisal. Ang Lee’s Hulk. The CGI is ropey and dated, and I don’t think he really ‘got’ the character. But it captures the feel of comics and comic book storytelling in a way that none of the recent DC or Marvel films do. Popeye, Dick Tracy and Hulk make a slightly strange but very interesting trilogy of films that actually capture the spirit of comics themselves, not just representations of the characters. All three are worth a watch. Read an article years ago that made me look at Ang Lee's Hulk in a different light, definitely worth a read - Confronting Ang Lee's "Hulk"
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Nov 28, 2023 15:45:54 GMT
No reappraisal from me, Ive always liked it. Despite it taking over an hour for The Hulk to appear in a The Hulk movie and him fighting a radioactive poodle...
But, yeah, same deal, really. You watch it back and it feels like, for better or worse, an artist was at the helm rather than an algorithm. He took 'comic book movie' very, very literally.
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geefe
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Post by geefe on Nov 28, 2023 15:47:31 GMT
He must be very Ang Lee at how it turned out
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