Frog
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Post by Frog on Feb 2, 2024 10:04:26 GMT
Looter shooters are great when done well and with a suitable IP. They don't need to be live service games though, just robust.
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Derblington
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Post by Derblington on Feb 2, 2024 10:46:43 GMT
Yeah, there are plenty of good looter shooters.
The GaaS bit is an issue but also not really. The plan seems to be to make a lot of the significant content - new maps & characters - free to all, with ignorable fluff being transactional. It's not a competitive game, so there's no fear of selling power creep, etc.
The hate boner seems to be reactionary to the announcement of what the game is, rather than how it is. Most accounts suggest that the Rocksteady narrative DNA is present, so it being SP or co-op may not change much had they created a shooter regardless.
As to what they may have produced were it not what it is, well it's all just speculation.
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Post by rhaegyr on Feb 2, 2024 11:06:05 GMT
I don't think you can boil the 'hate boner' down to one thing - there's a multitude of factors at play imo.
- 8 years of development from a highly thought of studio only to come out with a multiplayer loot shooter.
- Loot shooters/GaaS is a crowded and oversaturated market - do we need another one?
- A lot of people incorrectly thought they were working on a Superman game for a long time. Suicide Squad is a naff IP in comparison.
- Studio has a pedigree of great single player games with the Arkham trilogy
- Studio heads left not long ago - never a good sign
There's probably more at play and people are sometimes too quick to judge (myself included) but from everything I've seen the game just smacks of publisher intereference and wanting to chase the latest GaaS trend.
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Post by Duffking on Feb 2, 2024 11:07:18 GMT
Lots of general superhero fatigue at the moment as well
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Post by Jambowayoh on Feb 2, 2024 11:21:05 GMT
I don't think you can boil the 'hate boner' down to one thing - there's a multitude of factors at play imo. - 8 years of development from a highly thought of studio only to come out with a multiplayer loot shooter. - Loot shooters/GaaS is a crowded and oversaturated market - do we need another one? - A lot of people incorrectly thought they were working on a Superman game for a long time. Suicide Squad is a naff IP in comparison. - Studio has a pedigree of great single player games with the Arkham trilogy - Studio heads left not long ago - never a good sign There's probably more at play and people are sometimes too quick to judge (myself included) but from everything I've seen the game just smacks of publisher intereference and wanting to chase the latest GaaS trend. I always thought the studio heads left due to the sexual harassment/bullying going on under their leadership. Sefton Hill was very much involved with the development of this game from the beginning. |
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Post by rhaegyr on Feb 2, 2024 11:22:26 GMT
Oof - never knew that.
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Post by mikew1985 on Feb 2, 2024 11:23:46 GMT
I don't think you can boil the 'hate boner' down to one thing - there's a multitude of factors at play imo. - 8 years of development from a highly thought of studio only to come out with a multiplayer loot shooter. - Loot shooters/GaaS is a crowded and oversaturated market - do we need another one? - A lot of people incorrectly thought they were working on a Superman game for a long time. Suicide Squad is a naff IP in comparison.- Studio has a pedigree of great single player games with the Arkham trilogy - Studio heads left not long ago - never a good sign There's probably more at play and people are sometimes too quick to judge (myself included) but from everything I've seen the game just smacks of publisher intereference and wanting to chase the latest GaaS trend. That's a great point. Enthusiasm started to dwindle when that little nugget was revealed, although not sure Superman wouldn't have had a worse effect there. |
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Post by Jambowayoh on Feb 2, 2024 11:28:41 GMT
I guess there's always the internet pileon though based on admittedly poor trailers issued by the publisher. I mean I played the Alpha, well the beta really and I didn't enjoy due to the extreme repetitive nature of it but I could how see people could enjoy it.
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Post by rhaegyr on Feb 2, 2024 11:33:32 GMT
I love the 4 player co-op genre - I play a lot of co-op online so I really wanted this to turn out great (as I did Anthem, Avengers, Redfall etc).
Absolutely no joy from this being (from the looks of it) merely average to good in parts. There's just too many great games out there fighting for my time to give this one a serious look.
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nazo
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Post by nazo on Feb 2, 2024 11:49:33 GMT
This really feels like Anthem again, a me-too looter shooter from a studio that made their name from excellent single player games. From the first reveals the reaction has been “we don’t want this” but like Anthem the response seems to be “you’re wrong, you’ll love it” and they pushed on anyway. I expect the outcome will be the same.
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Post by dfunked on Feb 2, 2024 12:28:06 GMT
I know it's not the first game to do it, but not sending out review codes until it's in the public's hands put me off more than I already was.
That they couldn't spin up an instance just for reviewers is absolute horseshit. They would've planned servers with scalability in mind and would have test instances running constantly, so could've easily provided something.
That combined with superhero and live service fatigue means I'll just blast through the story when it's free and there's nothing better to play in my backlog. Not exactly a hate boner, but not a love boner either. Just plain flaccid.
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Derblington
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Post by Derblington on Feb 2, 2024 12:32:33 GMT
Anthem was fundamentally broken, which is a bit different.
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Post by starchildhypocrethes on Feb 2, 2024 12:54:36 GMT
Was it? I played through the whole thing and don’t remember having any particular issues.
I’m completely the wrong market for these games as I never keep endlessly playing the same game, I just jump onto whatever the next new shiny thing is, but I always enjoy playing through the initial content.
I enjoyed both Anthem and Avengers and got my money’s worth from them and probably will from this.
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Post by Jambowayoh on Feb 2, 2024 13:13:51 GMT
Not wanting to speak for Derbs but I interpret it as Anthem was broken from a game design perspective. The awkward mix of 3rd person combat with 1st person rpg lite, the one biome, the terrible weapon economy, the awkward division of worlds with egregious loading zones. The attempt to build Anthem 2.0 was because it was so broken but obviously EA couldn't justify the time and money required to fix it.
Fwiw I thought Anthem was a wasted concept and entirely down to the hubris of Bioware especially with the reveal that in development all talk of Destiny as a design document was banned. I mean it's fucking insane not to look at a leader in the genre at the time as a template for your game.
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Post by Duffking on Feb 2, 2024 13:29:00 GMT
It's definitely had a troubled development if nothing else; about 3-4 years ago a colleague of mine left where I was working at the time to go to Rocksteady as a coder, left after about 12 months and came back citing basically continuous crunch.
To think it dragged on so long even *after* that. They must have had enormous churn and I bet barely anyone responsible for their batman titles is even there any more.
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Tuffty
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Post by Tuffty on Feb 2, 2024 13:30:50 GMT
IGN uploading the games end cutscene is pretty petty. Sure they haven't done that before? especially for a game that officially releases today. Don't they have those "Ending explained" videos that show the ending? |
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Post by Bill in the rain on Feb 2, 2024 13:37:00 GMT
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Post by Jambowayoh on Feb 2, 2024 14:51:51 GMT
Ahhh the old Streisand Effect in effect! |
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Post by Jambowayoh on Feb 2, 2024 14:52:42 GMT
It's definitely had a troubled development if nothing else; about 3-4 years ago a colleague of mine left where I was working at the time to go to Rocksteady as a coder, left after about 12 months and came back citing basically continuous crunch. To think it dragged on so long even *after* that. They must have had enormous churn and I bet barely anyone responsible for their batman titles is even there any more. Oof. That doesn't sound good. How many are there, like 200 people? |
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Post by Humperfunk on Feb 2, 2024 18:01:47 GMT
Played a few hours with two mates and absolutely tremendous fun.
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Post by baihu1983 on Feb 2, 2024 18:02:58 GMT
Story wise they could have avoided a lot of heat if they said it was in a new universe rather than the Arkham universe gamers had loved over 4 games.
Also not helped they went from Knight to oh yeah here's all the JL but they bad now guys!
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Post by 😎 on Feb 2, 2024 19:03:02 GMT
Nice little detail - when you have the somewhat annoying "stop on a rooftop and wait for the radio conversations to end" moments, if you glance around the landscape you can often spot Bats perched on a ledge in the distance watching you.
I'm having terrific fun with it right now but would be surprised if it sustains once I've polished off the story campaigns, aside from dipping back in as and when the new story elements and characters drop. Also had a couple of mission failures/aborts that were completely due to the game design - only side missions, but still. One was to protect data terminals, but bad guys only take grenade damage. You can replenish grenades with melee on grunts. Except at one point there are no grunts and just a couple of the big tanky guys roaming around who take more grenades than you can keep in stock, so it's literally impossible.
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Post by magicpanda on Feb 2, 2024 23:14:39 GMT
Nice little detail - when you have the somewhat annoying "stop on a rooftop and wait for the radio conversations to end" moments, if you glance around the landscape you can often spot Bats perched on a ledge in the distance watching you. I'm having terrific fun with it right now but would be surprised if it sustains once I've polished off the story campaigns, aside from dipping back in as and when the new story elements and characters drop. Also had a couple of mission failures/aborts that were completely due to the game design - only side missions, but still. One was to protect data terminals, but bad guys only take grenade damage. You can replenish grenades with melee on grunts. Except at one point there are no grunts and just a couple of the big tanky guys roaming around who take more grenades than you can keep in stock, so it's literally impossible. Check the perks on your guns, some of them are based around damage to grunts and brutes. I've had the same thing on that mission, you just have to knock them down with a counter and they drop grenades. The snipers however are bastards, they dont seem to function well with a bot team. You need a human Deadshot or Boomerang to prioritise them. More I play, the better I get and the higher my opinion gets, they've taken the combo system with Arkham, given it guns, tied it into perks, skills, talent trees and gear sets and made it fucking glorious fun to play and pore over loot. I've not noticed Batman yet, evil Batman on the radio is good fun. King Shark is genuinely funny. |
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Feb 2, 2024 23:24:10 GMT
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Post by dfunked on Feb 2, 2024 23:30:52 GMT
Well that makes a change from all of the positive reviews that have been flooding in.
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Post by Jambowayoh on Feb 2, 2024 23:47:30 GMT
That was quite the comprehensive review for IGN.
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Post by theguy on Feb 3, 2024 0:55:25 GMT
It sort of confirms some of my fears from the Alpha like the mission design not evolving much
If the campaign is 10 hours or so then I can definitely see the game being decent fun for that length of time. I probably spent 3 or 4 just in the Alpha. Which, I'm sure was up for longer than it took some sites to publish their full review.
It's just weird because 10 hours would suggest a curated experience, in line with quality single player titles (Like Arkham) but it doesn't seem it's really the case. More just go there and shooty shooty. Can't help but think it is at odds with itself.
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Frog
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Post by Frog on Feb 3, 2024 7:40:20 GMT
Sounds like its a game that's like doing destiny patrols the whole time.
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Post by magicpanda on Feb 3, 2024 9:15:24 GMT
Up to 86% on Steam now. 4.52 Stars on the PSN store. It good looking game on PC, the character models are unmatched.    |
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Post by Zuluhero on Feb 3, 2024 9:24:36 GMT
Sounds like its a game that's like doing destiny patrols the whole time. But they're the most fun parts!! How does it not work?? |
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