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Post by Aunt Alison on Jan 18, 2022 17:05:33 GMT
I hate when people discredit hip hop when it's actually the most intellectual art form. If you want to make an argument against lack of playing instruments, I want to point you toward The Roots who play everything live on albums and in concert, or Dr. Dre who gets a group of musicians to play everything on his records, even if it sounds like a sample of an old Parliament record. It's all live. But lyrically, no other form of music has the wordplay, metaphors, storytelling or similes that hip hop does. And that's not even taking into account the fusion of genres withing the samples and features. I don't think I'd care too much for the opinion of someone who claimed to love music and then dictate what can and can't be considered music. I've listened to a decent amount now and production varies wildly. If there was no artistry or talent involved, you wouldn't have names like RZA and Dre
I've always liked story telling in music, which is probably one of the reason hip hop has struck a chord with me. I love all the word play and pop culture references as well. Hip hop feels like a single entity more than any other genre I've listened to. It has such a rich and important history and the backdrop for it all is so interesting and important to the music itself. Listening to 90s hip hop makes me feel nostalgic and I didn't even listen to it then
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Post by Aunt Alison on Jan 18, 2022 17:11:20 GMT
@sabalisabali I'm a page and a couple of weeks late, but have you heard Methodman & Redman's stuff? Or... just Redman? I've listened to Muddy Waters but it's been so long now. I'm doing the Wu Tang rounds so I will give it and a couple of others a listen Datpiff for all your mixtape needs, pretty sure it has everything on there.
Thanks! |
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Buu
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Post by Buu on Jan 18, 2022 18:19:28 GMT
Speaking of Wu-Tang, we're expecting our first child in March so I had to start her off right and make her a hip hop head...  It's totally more for me than her but she needs to know about Wu |
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Post by Aunt Alison on Jan 19, 2022 17:08:37 GMT
Just wanted to say how much I love Scarface. Still my favourite, especially The Diary. First hip hop album I loved front to back - can't believe it wasn't on the list of essential albums
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2022 17:14:41 GMT
My favourite southern rapper easily, his discography is amazing. The Diary is an absolute classic, the whole thing flows nicely and no skippable tracks which is rare.
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Buu
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Jan 19, 2022 22:00:10 GMT
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Post by Buu on Jan 19, 2022 22:00:10 GMT
Anyone a fan of Nas' most recent album? I'd say for once he finally had an album with consistently good beats on it.
I'm getting a bit annoyed with these really short albums though. Same as Benny The Butcher's 'Pyrex Picasso'. Great album... but it's 23 minutes long
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Jan 19, 2022 22:04:00 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2022 22:04:00 GMT
Nas is my goat so have listened to it and really enjoy it. This late album run he's having this late in his career is pretty incredible.
Apparently Kings Disease 3 is on its way soon as well.
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Buu
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Jan 19, 2022 23:19:03 GMT
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Post by Buu on Jan 19, 2022 23:19:03 GMT
My only knock against Nas is his best selection really. For every great one it feels like he has several atrocious beats.
But no one can deny his pen game. I don't really have a top 10 because it always changes dependent on my mood but he would consistently be up there. He could've retired after Illmatic and still had one of the greatest catalogues of all time
As of 23:20 my top 10 in no order would be...
Jay Z
Nas
Biggie
Black Thought
DMX
J Cole
Method Man
Big L
Kanye
Eminem
You could ask me tomorrow and get a complete different list as some days DMX may get switched out for someone like Common or J Cole for Kendrick. In my mind I have a top 20 who belong to my number 1 spot
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Post by Aunt Alison on Jan 19, 2022 23:37:22 GMT
I can't get into Eminem. I don't care for the subject metter of his songs or like his voice, and the comedy sound effect tracks are quite annoying. Not WG annoying, I just don't like em. Jay-Z, Nas, Biggie, MM, BT, Big L all good. Heard a Big L track on Runaway Slave recently and it's great
I'd add Scarface and probably fill out the rest with Wu Tang members at the moment
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Deleted
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Jan 20, 2022 0:02:32 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2022 0:02:32 GMT
Eminem can rap his arse off and has some absolute classics. It's just mixed in with a lot of puerile shit that hasn't aged that well. His early stuff is great though.
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Post by Aunt Alison on Jan 20, 2022 0:06:49 GMT
Yeah, it's not one of those things where I think he's overrated or anything like that. Just a personal thing. There've been times when I haven't liked someone at first and thne gone back and loved them later so it's always worth listening to things again down the line
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Jan 20, 2022 0:09:39 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2022 0:09:39 GMT
BLACK THOUGHT 👍🏽
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2022 0:09:41 GMT
Listen to some of his eminem show - 8 mile stuff. He was in his prime then for me. Loads of great guest features where he stole the show as well.
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Post by Aunt Alison on Jan 20, 2022 0:16:25 GMT
Can someone explain to me what makes them think of someone as the GOAT? Like, flow and stuff- I keep meaning to look this stuff up
I thought Pharoahe Monch was really good but don't have the musical vocabulary to put it into words why
Also, random, but does anyone know where '...and you don't stop' originates from? Is 'One time for your mind' Nas'? I hear both quite a lot
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Post by jetsetchilli on Jan 20, 2022 1:07:28 GMT
where '...and you don't stop' originates from? Rappers Delight I would hazard a guess at |
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Post by jetsetchilli on Jan 20, 2022 2:21:27 GMT
You may think me strange but I have never really got the love for Nas. Yeah, he can rap, and on a technical level, he's right up there at the top. But for me, his songs just aren't funky. I think I like one track on KD2 and one or two, three at most on Illmatic. Hip Hop for me started with breakdance music in the early 80's. Artists like Flash, Melle Mel, Bambatta, Whodini, Packman, Nucleus, Capt. Rock etc. The rapping in songs by these artists is way simpler bar maybe Whitelines which is a pure classic and perhaps the original conscious rap. But for my puerile old arse though, Hip Hop is first and foremost about the beats and rhythms. The rapping was always secondary (heavily caveated because there have been plenty of fucking awesome rap songs you wouldn't dance to!). Some 80's funky stuff Run DMC - Sucker MC's and Mary Mary Flash and Melle Mel - Whitelines Bambata - Planet Rock De la Soul ft. Jungle Brothers & Q-Tip - Buddy Fast Life - Dr. Jeckyll & Mr. Hyde (in fact just listen to the whole of Electro 5 oh and 6 - 8) I'll stop there  Oh I forgot Schooly D - Am I black enough for ya |
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Buu
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Post by Buu on Jan 20, 2022 8:43:28 GMT
Eminem is very divisive. But I life his older bits and I expect a large part of that is nostalgia but I also liked the Kamikaze album from a few years back.
I could put Inspectah Deck in that list based off his verse in Triumph. Probably one of the single best verses of all time
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Post by Aunt Alison on Jan 20, 2022 9:31:54 GMT
It's probably in part Rum's influence but Nas is essential to me. He also seems like a very serious boy from what I've seen of him in various interviews and it comes across in his music too. I don't think I've seen him smile
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Buu
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Post by Buu on Jan 20, 2022 9:41:17 GMT
There was/is a Nas documentary about Illmatic on Netflix. Watched it a few years back but worth watching for any fan of his
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dogbot
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Post by dogbot on Jan 20, 2022 11:18:36 GMT
Eminem is very divisive. But I life his older bits and I expect a large part of that is nostalgia but I also liked the Kamikaze album from a few years back. I could put Inspectah Deck in that list based off his verse in Triumph. Probably one of the single best verses of all time He bombs atomically, don'tcha know? I love Deck. His first solo record is underrated, too. I think Eminem is a really talented rapper, but I don't love a lot of what he writes. If we're doing 80s rappers, Grandmaster Caz usually gets missed off the list. |
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Jan 20, 2022 13:46:46 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2022 13:46:46 GMT
Can someone explain to me what makes them think of someone as the GOAT? Like, flow and stuff- I keep meaning to look this stuff up I thought Pharoahe Monch was really good but don't have the musical vocabulary to put it into words why Also, random, but does anyone know where '...and you don't stop' originates from? Is 'One time for your mind' Nas'? I hear both quite a lot It's so subjective based on people's views. It's why I'll never argue someone else's pick despite it obviously being Nas. But I look for storytelling, flow, wordplay, charisma and beat picking that elevates this. You have to replayability of the albums and songs. The best rappers have an ability to make a white guy from the UK get a perspective and insight of their lives and what it's like where they're from. But then you look at Jetsets post and he has a totally different criteria. But I'll always favour storyteller style rappers like Nas, Big and Scarface over most. |
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Post by rhaegyr on Jan 20, 2022 14:03:26 GMT
Shocking lack of Ghostface Killah in this thread - when he's at the top of his game (which has admittedly been a while now) there's no better storyteller for me.
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Jan 20, 2022 14:12:16 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2022 14:12:16 GMT
GFK and The Wu get loads of love in the thread!
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Post by rhaegyr on Jan 20, 2022 14:49:28 GMT
My mistake!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2022 18:46:52 GMT
Ghostface is the greatest American storyteller. Mark Twain who?
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Jan 21, 2022 12:55:25 GMT
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Post by smoothpete on Jan 21, 2022 12:55:25 GMT
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Post by Aunt Alison on Jan 23, 2022 18:03:09 GMT
Can someone explain to me what makes them think of someone as the GOAT? Like, flow and stuff- I keep meaning to look this stuff up I thought Pharoahe Monch was really good but don't have the musical vocabulary to put it into words why Also, random, but does anyone know where '...and you don't stop' originates from? Is 'One time for your mind' Nas'? I hear both quite a lot It's so subjective based on people's views. It's why I'll never argue someone else's pick despite it obviously being Nas. But I look for storytelling, flow, wordplay, charisma and beat picking that elevates this. You have to replayability of the albums and songs. The best rappers have an ability to make a white guy from the UK get a perspective and insight of their lives and what it's like where they're from. But then you look at Jetsets post and he has a totally different criteria. But I'll always favour storyteller style rappers like Nas, Big and Scarface over most. I thought it was purely a technical thing; explains why I've seen people saying LL Cool J is the GOAT. I like Mama Said Knock You Out, but eh
I completely agree with your list of what you look for. Illmatic definitely fits that - was listening to it earlier today and it's now my favourite Nas album
Surprisingly, someone I don't see mentioned very much is Tupac. Before getting into hip hop, he was easily the rapper I was the most aware of from the outside looking in, but very rarely see him named as GOAT by anyone and don't think he's been talked about in this thread much either. He was the one who got me to take notice of hip hop in the beginning and start looking deeper but even I don't listen to him as much as I probably should. I still need to go through his many posthumous albums. Keep Ya Head Up is one of my all time favourite tracks
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Jan 23, 2022 18:27:49 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2022 18:27:49 GMT
I love Tupac, one of my favourites. I think he's often not talked about because he is the most obvious and famous rapper everyone knows so it's just a given.
A lot of it might be over saturation as well, he recorded so much that after his death there were new songs and albums still coming out 10yrs later. And some were really just cashing in projects with no effort.
Regarding Nas, the really amazing thing about Illmatic was that Nas wrote verses and songs on that when he was only 16 yrs old.
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Post by Aunt Alison on Jan 23, 2022 20:53:16 GMT
U-God's Golden Arms Redemption is pretty shocking for a Wu Tang album. I don't know what the worst hip hop song I've heard is but I think it might be on this album. Could be Hungry. Yikes
Hopefully Inspectah Deck is better
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Jan 23, 2022 22:18:59 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2022 22:18:59 GMT
When you start to dilute into the wider posse there's some real stinkers.
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