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Post by Aunt Alison on Sept 29, 2021 15:01:48 GMT
Tryhard? He was a 19 year old kid from Los Angeles. That's how he talked! Then I just don't think it has aged well. I find quite a lot of things 19 year olds say annoying |
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Post by Aunt Alison on Sept 29, 2021 15:09:30 GMT
For me it's the power of the break more than the words. I find myself rapping along happily about what I'm going to do to fool ass niggas, if I like the sample. I fell out of love with hip hop a bit when they started having to pay royalties for samples and the consequence was a lot of rappers started making their own beats. On the topic of ignorance, what do you mean by "breaks"?  |
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Post by Matt A on Sept 29, 2021 15:15:14 GMT
The beat that loops. I think they're referred to as breaks. I used to work in Manchester and there was a shop that sold breaks records that DJs use. So the records have a series of tracks that are just looping beats. Regarding ignorance I know all the words to Mobb Deep, "I'm a queens bridge murderer" |
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Post by 😎 on Sept 29, 2021 15:16:05 GMT
It's when they stop to have a KitKat and a ribena.
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Post by Matt A on Sept 29, 2021 15:21:14 GMT
I just got that. It took a while for the penny to drop.
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dogbot
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Post by dogbot on Sept 29, 2021 15:23:40 GMT
For me it's the power of the break more than the words. I find myself rapping along happily about what I'm going to do to fool ass niggas, if I like the sample. I fell out of love with hip hop a bit when they started having to pay royalties for samples and the consequence was a lot of rappers started making their own beats. On the topic of ignorance, what do you mean by "breaks"? Hand over your rap card, at once. Brakes on a bus, brakes on a car Breaks to make you a superstar Breaks to win and breaks to lose But these here breaks will rock your shoesAnd these are the breaks |
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Kay
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Post by Kay on Sept 29, 2021 15:35:07 GMT
Yeah, really not sure what to make of the last few posts in this thread tbh. Conscious rap really wasn't a huge thing back in the early 90s, so it seems churlish to criticise Snoop and Biggie for not having a message in their songs. Not to mention it was all about the East Coast-West Coast rivalry and other various beefs back then.
And like him or not, Snoop is one of the most iconic and unique rappers in the genre. And those G-funk era albums have aged pretty well imo.
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Deleted
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Hip Hop
Sept 29, 2021 15:38:56 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2021 15:38:56 GMT
Biggie was a great storyteller rapper with a lot of messages in his music. Just because he says bitch doesn't mean his music lacks meaning.
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dogbot
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Post by dogbot on Sept 29, 2021 15:40:41 GMT
Yeah, really not sure what to make of the last few posts in this thread tbh. Conscious rap really wasn't a huge thing back in the early 90s, so it seems churlish to criticise Snoop and Biggie for not having a message in their songs. Not to mention it was all about the East Coast-West Coast rivalry and other various beefs back then. And like him or not, Snoop is one of the most iconic and unique rappers in the genre. And those G-funk era albums have aged pretty well imo. Yeah, agreed. Horses for courses and all that. I love Snoop, personally. It's not very PC, but he has one of the most unique and easily identifiable voices in any genre, has comfortably stood the test of time and has transcended being just a rapper and become some else entirely - just Snoop. He's a regular playlist favourite in my house and I'd play his shizzle over Kanye West's any damn day. |
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Hip Hop
Sept 29, 2021 15:41:48 GMT
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Post by Matt A on Sept 29, 2021 15:41:48 GMT
If your mum read the words to some of his songs would she feel the same?
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dogbot
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Post by dogbot on Sept 29, 2021 15:42:43 GMT
Biggie was a great storyteller rapper with a lot of messages in his music. Just because he says bitch doesn't mean his music lacks meaning. Indisputably one of the greatest, imo. Had it all... flow, humour, braggadocio in spades. |
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Hip Hop
Sept 29, 2021 15:45:13 GMT
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Post by Matt A on Sept 29, 2021 15:45:13 GMT
Oh right meaning. Yeah sorry I'm wrong
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2021 15:50:46 GMT
And you're hearing from their point of view and the environment they grew up in, I don't think they were bothered about middle class white people being offended by bitch.
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Sept 29, 2021 15:55:26 GMT
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Post by Matt A on Sept 29, 2021 15:55:26 GMT
No and I'm not disputing that they're a product of their environment but that doesn't make some of the views expressed as not ignorant. And you can be ignorant and have a message or tell a story at the same time. I mean I think he's a genius but still
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dogbot
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Post by dogbot on Sept 29, 2021 15:55:46 GMT
Anyway... this bangs.
I haven't 100% vetted the lyrics for anything offensive, so if you're upset I'm terribly sorry.
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Post by Aunt Alison on Sept 29, 2021 15:59:46 GMT
Biggie was a great storyteller rapper with a lot of messages in his music. Just because he says bitch doesn't mean his music lacks meaning. That's what I meant by structure. I think the music reflects the lives they've led and their outlook and that is important to express and document. I just don't think drugs, guns, killing people, sexism, etc is 'cool'
As for Snoop Dog, just don't like him. Not everyone is going to like everything. I'm happy for him to exist and have fans, just not for me
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Post by Aunt Alison on Sept 29, 2021 16:03:07 GMT
And you're hearing from their point of view and the environment they grew up in, I don't think they were bothered about middle class white people being offended by bitch. I'm not offended by it, it's "biatch" specifically. Probably because it was co opted at some point by knobs on the internet I suspect and that's my association |
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Deleted
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Sept 29, 2021 16:06:03 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2021 16:06:03 GMT
I was just using bitch as a catch all term people might find offensive with rap.
I was more offended at the suggestion that BIG's music lacked substance or had no meaning.
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Post by Aunt Alison on Sept 29, 2021 16:09:25 GMT
I was just using bitch as a catch all term people might find offensive with rap. I was more offended at the suggestion that BIG's music lacked substance or had no meaning. By something I said? Not at all. I went into rap as someone who was put off by all the gangster stuff and loved Biggie straight away, which really opened it all up for me |
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Deleted
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Sept 29, 2021 16:14:33 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2021 16:14:33 GMT
I'm not really offended.
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Sept 29, 2021 16:17:01 GMT
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Post by Matt A on Sept 29, 2021 16:17:01 GMT
With regards to conscious rap in the 90s, I'd put krs one, public enemy and rakim in that bracket. There was a lot of stuff that was moral for want of a better term.
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Post by Aunt Alison on Sept 29, 2021 16:25:36 GMT
I just read my earlier comment back and it does sound like that's what I was saying actually. I'd say that when listening to something like Biggie, there's a lot of horrible stuff in there but there's also moments of incredible insight
I've only listened to a couple of his albums - well, one and the duets one (I don't get why Korn is on there) - same with most other people so I should probably keep my opinions to myself for now. Still don't like Snoop though - I'd be willing to give another album a go. Any suggestions?
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dogbot
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Post by dogbot on Sept 29, 2021 16:28:56 GMT
The first two (Doggystyle and Murder Was the Case) are the best ones, but also some of the later stuff like Paid the Cost to be the Boss, R&G, Blue Carpet Treatment or Malice in Wonderland are all good, too.
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Sept 29, 2021 16:33:21 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2021 16:33:21 GMT
I'm not a big Snoop fan outside of Doggystyle and The Chronic.
The Biggie duets album was a cash grab for Puff Daddy, absolutely awful. Tragic he only got to put 2 proper albums out.
I think you'll like Scarface though, touches on a lot of subjects and doesn't glorify the gangsta stuff you don't like so much. Start with The Diary, it's a classic.
With a lot of older rappers it's best to start from the beggining rather than their newer stuff first.
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Post by Aunt Alison on Sept 29, 2021 16:43:35 GMT
I'm not a big Snoop fan outside of Doggystyle and The Chronic. The Biggie duets album was a cash grab for Puff Daddy, absolutely awful. Tragic he only got to put 2 proper albums out. I think you'll like Scarface though, touches on a lot of subjects and doesn't glorify the gangsta stuff you don't like so much. Start with The Diary, it's a classic. With a lot of older rappers it's best to start from the beggining rather than their newer stuff first. Ngl, I do like the ganster stuff. I think it's the anger and swagger of it. I think people like Biggie can back it up with genuine talent though. I'm not offended by any of it, at most it's a case of rolling my eyes or just laughing, usually at the sexist stuff
That's a shame. I quite like a few of the Duets tracks
Will give that a listen, and the stuff Matt mentioned. I'm just soaking up everything I can
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Post by Matt A on Sept 29, 2021 16:48:53 GMT
The 90s stuff. This is my all time favourite song
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dogbot
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Post by dogbot on Sept 29, 2021 17:08:08 GMT
I'm not a big Snoop fan outside of Doggystyle and The Chronic. The Biggie duets album was a cash grab for Puff Daddy, absolutely awful. Tragic he only got to put 2 proper albums out. I think you'll like Scarface though, touches on a lot of subjects and doesn't glorify the gangsta stuff you don't like so much. Start with The Diary, it's a classic. With a lot of older rappers it's best to start from the beggining rather than their newer stuff first. Ngl, I do like the ganster stuff. I think it's the anger and swagger of it. I think people like Biggie can back it up with genuine talent though. I'm not offended by any of it, at most it's a case of rolling my eyes or just laughing, usually at the sexist stuff
That's a shame. I quite like a few of the Duets tracks
Will give that a listen, and the stuff Matt mentioned. I'm just soaking up everything I can
Have you heard Prince Paul’s concept album, A Prince Among Thieves? Well worth a listen. |
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Post by Aunt Alison on Sept 29, 2021 17:12:09 GMT
Nope, someone posted a link to a reddit thread of best rap albums that I've been working through as well as whatever gets mentioned here (and daffy's been great giving recommendations) Will give it a listen
edit: think the link was in the 2pac thread
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dogbot
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Post by dogbot on Sept 29, 2021 17:14:00 GMT
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Post by gamingdave on Sept 29, 2021 17:28:53 GMT
I'm definitely more into 90's hip hop and rap than anything modern. Probably stems from my dislike of R&B (in the words modern usage - I love proper Rhythm & Blues) and it's influence, or anything with bloody autotune.
Ice-T OG is close to a perfect album for me, a few tracks don't quite hit the mark but then it is 72mins long.
You can add to that NWA's Straight Outta Compton, Public Enemy's Fear Of A Black Planet and the masterpiece that is Critical Beatdown by the Ultramagnetic MC's
There's a lot of stuff from the late 80s and 90s which is highly misogynistic and homophobic, and/or glamourises violence but then that's still the case with hip hop in a lot of cases.
But as Matt A said, it's all about the breaks. I preferred hip hop when it was made on an MPC with an 808 for the kick (and no one cared what they sampled).
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