Duffking
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Post by Duffking on Jun 26, 2024 14:17:36 GMT
I've got to be honest and say that I don't honestly believe ER or any of FROMs soulslikes are 10/10. There's too many bits in there that I think should rightfully bring a score down. They are not, and never will be perfect games. There's too much borderline bad and unfair shit in there for that, not to mention the actual game performance itself (their engine is beautiful but so shoddy at the same time). Doesn't stop me loving the hell out them though (although ER will always be second tier to Dark Souls in my mind, and third tier to Bloodborne). I find all this discourse rather interesting as to me, there's nothing in here that FROM haven't done before be it in their base games or their DLC. Pre-patch Lost Izalith anyone? Or Shrine of Amana? Or the angels in the dreg heap?
Perhaps it's because the game is garnering so much more attention than their previous games that it's more prevalent, but over ten years ago walking into the capra demon fight and immediately getting mauled by his dogs before twatted with two big swords, I'm pretty much expecting to get ganked at every opportunity since then.
I think it depends if you think 10/10 represents perfection, or just "as good as any game can reasonably be". No game'll ever be perfect, but Dark Souls 1 is a straight 10/10 for me. Even though Izalith sucks, it's so sublime overall it doesn't matter to me. |
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Post by Jambowayoh on Jun 26, 2024 14:28:44 GMT
Bloodborne is a clear 10/10, great art direction, so much atmosphere it's embarrassing, great enemy design, some excellent bosses. At first for me it wasn't really working but something just clicked and the aggressiveness really complemented how I play action games. It's a fucking travesty the way Sony has treated that property.
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wunty
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Post by wunty on Jun 26, 2024 14:29:07 GMT
Suppose that's when you start going into what score you personally will give something compared with what score a professional reviewer should give something based on their criteria and focus on neutrality. I'd give them all 10/10 personally, but if I was a professional then there's too much I would mark against them for that. Dark Souls had really pish moments that I almost looked at with endearment, and it definitely came down to if I loved the rest of the game enough to put up with it. My brother bought Dark Souls at the same time as me and we started together. He made it as far as the aforementioned capra demon, went "fuck that" and never touched any of them again since.
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Post by quadfather on Jun 26, 2024 14:31:23 GMT
I've got to be honest and say that I don't honestly believe ER or any of FROMs soulslikes are 10/10. There's too many bits in there that I think should rightfully bring a score down. They are not, and never will be perfect games. There's too much borderline bad and unfair shit in there for that, not to mention the actual game performance itself (their engine is beautiful but so shoddy at the same time). Doesn't stop me loving the hell out them though (although ER will always be second tier to Dark Souls in my mind, and third tier to Bloodborne). I find all this discourse rather interesting as to me, there's nothing in here that FROM haven't done before be it in their base games or their DLC. Pre-patch Lost Izalith anyone? Or Shrine of Amana? Or the angels in the dreg heap?
Perhaps it's because the game is garnering so much more attention than their previous games that it's more prevalent, but over ten years ago walking into the capra demon fight and immediately getting mauled by his dogs before twatted with two big swords, I'm pretty much expecting to get ganked at every opportunity since then.
I think it depends if you think 10/10 represents perfection, or just "as good as any game can reasonably be". No game'll ever be perfect, but Dark Souls 1 is a straight 10/10 for me. Even though Izalith sucks, it's so sublime overall it doesn't matter to me. Hard agree here on dark souls 1 |
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wunty
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Post by wunty on Jun 26, 2024 14:33:09 GMT
But again, even looking at Bloodborne. Look at the glitchy, shite and overall broken Rom fight. It's awful on every level. Look at the red respawning enemies in the nameless village. Are the winter lanterns anything other than a shit frenzy building enemy? To be fair it's harder to find flaws in Bloodborne but they do exist.
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Post by Aunt Alison on Jun 26, 2024 14:34:49 GMT
Bloodborne was my first souls game and my first, and really only, experience of the sheer joy and rush of overcoming a boss and gradually working my way through the game. Those unbearable tense moments towards the end of a boss where you're desperately trying not to think about the end of the fight, followed by complete elation. My hands would literally be trambling after from the adrenaline That alone makes it one of my favourite games of all time The other games have had their moments, but once you've learned how to play a souls games, the same skills will see you through all of them to a degree. I did feel it a bit beating Margit and Godrick at level 9, which is in part why I wanted to, but it was still nowhere near Bloodborne levels
Sekiro is probably the closest I've got to that same feeling I got playing Bloodborne
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Post by quadfather on Jun 26, 2024 14:35:19 GMT
Suppose that's when you start going into what score you personally will give something compared with what score a professional reviewer should give something based on their criteria and focus on neutrality. I'd give them all 10/10 personally, but if I was a professional then there's too much I would mark against them for that. Dark Souls had really pish moments that I almost looked at with endearment, and it definitely came down to if I loved the rest of the game enough to put up with it. My brother bought Dark Souls at the same time as me and we started together. He made it as far as the aforementioned capra demon, went "fuck that" and never touched any of them again since. Ah, I've just spotted something here. Your brother is exactly how I feel about Dark Souls 2 and 3, and from what I'm reading, would also be elden ring dlc. Whereas for Dark Souls 1, even though some areas have been highlighted as not very good (Izalith etc), I actively enjoy them genuinely. It's because I love the whole game so much, I accept these areas fully as part of the game. Put it this way, if no-one on the Internet moaned about izalith, I wouldn't have ever brought it up as I accept it's part of a game I genuinely love. It probably wouldn't have even crossed my mind that it wasn't as good a area as x,y,z. |
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Post by quadfather on Jun 26, 2024 14:36:33 GMT
Bloodborne was my first souls game and my first, and really only, experience of the sheer joy and rush of overcoming a boss and gradually working my way through the game. Those unbearable tense moments towards the end of a boss where you're desperately trying not to think about the end of the fight, followed by complete elation. My hands would literally be trambling after from the adrenaline That alone makes it one of my favourite games of all time The other games have had moments, but once you've learned how to play a souls games, the same skills will see you through all of them to a degree. I did feel it a bit beating Margit and Godrick at level 9, which is in part why I wanted to, but it was still nowhere near Bloodborne levels I got that rush with dark souls 1. I think there might be something in the order that you play these games for the first time |
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Post by Aunt Alison on Jun 26, 2024 14:41:17 GMT
Suppose that's when you start going into what score you personally will give something compared with what score a professional reviewer should give something based on their criteria and focus on neutrality. I'd give them all 10/10 personally, but if I was a professional then there's too much I would mark against them for that. Dark Souls had really pish moments that I almost looked at with endearment, and it definitely came down to if I loved the rest of the game enough to put up with it. My brother bought Dark Souls at the same time as me and we started together. He made it as far as the aforementioned capra demon, went "fuck that" and never touched any of them again since. I didn't know you had a brother, wunty. You've been keeping secrets. Do you have him locked in a tower |
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wunty
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Post by wunty on Jun 26, 2024 14:41:55 GMT
The atmosphere to each game is quite different. Dark Souls 1 will always be special, because it genuinely is special. Even though I prefer DS2 from a gameplay perspective, Dark Souls 1 will always technically be king. It's the one that also felt the most obtuse, the most mysterious, the darkest and most brutal. I overlook every flaw in it because once it hooked me, it never let go. I think my point is though that the flaws are in these games, it just depends on your own personal tolerance. I'm forgiving a lot of issues with this ER DLC purely becuase, in typical FROM fashion, it has grabbed me. I can't deny they exist, but I can overlook them because I'm so enthralled anyway. it's always been like that for their games. I think, as jambo and others have said, it's louder with this than ever because the player base has become so huge (and also streaming has never been bigger). Previously it would just be a few of us in a dark corner of the internet gurning about it. Ultimately (and I am aware I'm diluting my own point) what i think I was saying was that it's no more or less unfair than any other game they've made. It just boils down to if you have the patience for it and if there's enough apart from the gank jank that you like to overlook or put up with it.
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wunty
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Post by wunty on Jun 26, 2024 14:42:13 GMT
Suppose that's when you start going into what score you personally will give something compared with what score a professional reviewer should give something based on their criteria and focus on neutrality. I'd give them all 10/10 personally, but if I was a professional then there's too much I would mark against them for that. Dark Souls had really pish moments that I almost looked at with endearment, and it definitely came down to if I loved the rest of the game enough to put up with it. My brother bought Dark Souls at the same time as me and we started together. He made it as far as the aforementioned capra demon, went "fuck that" and never touched any of them again since. I didn't know you had a brother, wunty. You've been keeping secrets. Do you have him locked in a tower Worse, Australia. |
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Post by Aunt Alison on Jun 26, 2024 14:47:03 GMT
But again, even looking at Bloodborne. Look at the glitchy, shite and overall broken Rom fight. It's awful on every level. Look at the red respawning enemies in the nameless village. Are the winter lanterns anything other than a shit frenzy building enemy? To be fair it's harder to find flaws in Bloodborne but they do exist. What's glitchy about Rom? Never had a problem with him
Trying to think of the respawning enemies but not coming up with anything. The ones near the witches fight?
Winter laterns are annoying but they're also pretty creepy and intimidating, so there is that
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Post by quadfather on Jun 26, 2024 15:00:08 GMT
The atmosphere to each game is quite different. Dark Souls 1 will always be special, because it genuinely is special. Even though I prefer DS2 from a gameplay perspective, Dark Souls 1 will always technically be king. It's the one that also felt the most obtuse, the most mysterious, the darkest and most brutal. I overlook every flaw in it because once it hooked me, it never let go. I think my point is though that the flaws are in these games, it just depends on your own personal tolerance. I'm forgiving a lot of issues with this ER DLC purely becuase, in typical FROM fashion, it has grabbed me. I can't deny they exist, but I can overlook them because I'm so enthralled anyway. it's always been like that for their games. I think, as jambo and others have said, it's louder with this than ever because the player base has become so huge (and also streaming has never been bigger). Previously it would just be a few of us in a dark corner of the internet gurning about it. Ultimately (and I am aware I'm diluting my own point) what i think I was saying was that it's no more or less unfair than any other game they've made. It just boils down to if you have the patience for it and if there's enough apart from the gank jank that you like to overlook or put up with it. Yeah that sounds a better way of putting it imo too |
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Post by Jambowayoh on Jun 26, 2024 15:09:38 GMT
Interestingly I only experienced Demons' Souls after Bloodborne via the remake and on the whole I really enjoyed. It was also interesting how the bosses were generally quite easy and straightforward, although Flamelurker was the real skill check that stumped me for a while. Now the route to actually get to the bosses I found extremely punishing compared to Elden Ring where the route to the boss isn't that bad on the whole.
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JonFE
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Post by JonFE on Jun 26, 2024 15:09:46 GMT
For what it's worth, I don't think FROM games are 10/10 games, but for me personally, ever since Dark Souls 1 got its hooks on me, most other non-FROM games seem bland and uninteresting; and I'm not talking strictly about soulslike games, I'm talking about all games.
I purchase games all the time, start them, get up to a point having my fill and then abandoning them. I just lose interest. Lately, the only games I was determined to finish apart from FROM games, were some AA games like Tunic, Death's Door or Cocoon and soulslikes Wo Long, Lies of P and Lords of the Fallen that I felt were worth of my time (add to them Rise of the Ronin and Stellar Blade, which I will get back to eventually).
In a nutshell, FROM games have ruined gaming for me...
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Post by quadfather on Jun 26, 2024 15:14:51 GMT
For what it's worth, I don't think FROM games are 10/10 games, but for me personally, ever since Dark Souls 1 got its hooks on me, most other non-FROM games seem bland and uninteresting; and I'm not talking strictly about soulslike games, I'm talking about all games. I purchase games all the time, start them, get up to a point having my fill and then abandoning them. I just lose interest. Lately, the only games I was determined to finish apart from FROM games, were some AA games like Tunic, Death's Door or Cocoon and soulslikes Wo Long, Lies of P and Lords of the Fallen that I felt were worth of my time (add to them Rise of the Ronin and Stellar Blade, which I will get back to eventually). In a nutshell, FROM games have ruined gaming for me... Or, they've opened up what it is you like and that makes it easier to decide what games to play now maybe? I agree by the way, there are only a handful of games I'm prepared to 100% commit. But don't forget we're both old bastards too and that has some bearing in these matters too imo! |
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JonFE
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Post by JonFE on Jun 26, 2024 15:28:54 GMT
quadfather Fun fact: prior to DS1 I wouldn't touch an RPG with a ten-foot pole. I always thought stats and numbers in gaming were tedious, had enough of them in RL, why bring them in my hobby etc. I'd see friends glamouring over Ultima or Baldur's Gate or Civ (not an RPG but stat heavy in my eyes) and I'd steer away. I was like, give me an FPS and I'm in heaven...
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wunty
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Post by wunty on Jun 26, 2024 15:54:08 GMT
I remember starting Dark Souls and hating it because it wasn't Diablo 2. Which is weird, looking back.
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Frog
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Post by Frog on Jun 26, 2024 16:09:30 GMT
I think almost all of Froms (souls) games are 9 or 10's. I just think this dlc is more bullshit heavy than usual and unless you are very skilled it pushes you towards turtling as the number of boss combos that kill you outright if you are anything less than perfect if the worst it's been. You can perfectly dodge every combo or sit behind the finger greatshield and poke or counter till your heart is content.
It negates the huge and varied sandbox the base game has unless you have top tier rolling skills.
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Vandelay
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Post by Vandelay on Jun 26, 2024 16:18:31 GMT
What are the rewards for killing them? I haven’t even attempted one. Is there a good method? For most of them you can just bash their ankles until they stagger. Once they stagger 3 times they fall over and you can crit their faces. That'll do about 50% damage in one go. Takes a while, but that's how it's done. On top of this use your trusted steed and double jump whenever it does the foot slam to spread fire everywhere. You can also roll through that attack if you aren't directly underneath, but I found avoiding it with a jump from Torrent to be far more effective |
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Post by peacemaker on Jun 26, 2024 16:26:52 GMT
Blood borne is an easy 10. Then maybe dark souls 1 and sekiro. All the rest solid 9s including ds2.
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Post by JuniorFE on Jun 26, 2024 16:27:53 GMT
I think almost all of Froms (souls) games are 9 or 10's. I just think this dlc is more bullshit heavy than usual and unless you are very skilled it pushes you towards turtling as the number of boss combos that kill you outright if you are anything less than perfect if the worst it's been. You can perfectly dodge every combo or sit behind the finger greatshield and poke or counter till your heart is content. It negates the huge and varied sandbox the base game has unless you have top tier rolling skills. Or use summons. Early days yet, of course, but having something to split aggro and a second source of damage mitigates the bullshit quite a bit |
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Post by JuniorFE on Jun 26, 2024 16:32:17 GMT
For what it's worth, I don't think FROM games are 10/10 games, but for me personally, ever since Dark Souls 1 got its hooks on me, most other non-FROM games seem bland and uninteresting; and I'm not talking strictly about soulslike games, I'm talking about all games. I purchase games all the time, start them, get up to a point having my fill and then abandoning them. I just lose interest. Lately, the only games I was determined to finish apart from FROM games, were some AA games like Tunic, Death's Door or Cocoon and soulslikes Wo Long, Lies of P and Lords of the Fallen that I felt were worth of my time (add to them Rise of the Ronin and Stellar Blade, which I will get back to eventually). In a nutshell, FROM games have ruined gaming for me... Or, they've opened up what it is you like and that makes it easier to decide what games to play now maybe? I agree by the way, there are only a handful of games I'm prepared to 100% commit. But don't forget we're both old bastards too and that has some bearing in these matters too imo! Worth pointing out that he has yet to touch Tears of the Kingdom, in spite of his admitted interest, liking BotW, and my own urging... Among multiple games that fit those criteria, including fellow Wo Long-likes Nioh/Nioh 2! |
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loto
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Post by loto on Jun 26, 2024 16:34:26 GMT
I didn’t realise they’d recalibrated/patched it. According to Duff’s link, at +14 Scuds, I’ll go from 70% damage to 90%. I might rush and finish it before they release the inevitable nerf.
I’ll practice on that bargain basement Orphan of Kos alike down in the Fissure first, as he’s a cheating twat.
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Tuffty
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Post by Tuffty on Jun 26, 2024 16:42:38 GMT
That is a top notch headline
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neems
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Post by neems on Jun 26, 2024 17:15:05 GMT
For me Elden Ring is absolutely 10/10, just the sheer scope of it. We're all used to it now, but the first time playing it was just mind boggling.
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Frog
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Post by Frog on Jun 26, 2024 17:20:54 GMT
Yeah, the shared experience was amazing as we were all uncovering stuff and helping each other. I remember there was this flail that I found..
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neems
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Post by neems on Jun 26, 2024 17:31:20 GMT
Yeah, the shared experience was amazing as we were all uncovering stuff and helping each other. I remember there was this flail that I found.. Oh I know the one, Wunty's Flail is it called? |
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Post by Jambowayoh on Jun 26, 2024 17:39:44 GMT
Messmer...what the in the ever loving fuck was that fight. Took 3 goes and I was just baffled by it. It was just 1 minute of him doing endless moves and me getting 1 second of opening. Then a second phase where lock on is not advised. Not a great one lads.p
I am enjoying it but it really can't help but get in the way of itself.
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Post by peacemaker on Jun 26, 2024 17:45:56 GMT
Messmer...what the in the ever loving fuck was that fight. Took 3 goes and I was just baffled by it. It was just 1 minute of him doing endless moves and me getting 1 second of opening. Then a second phase where lock on is not advised. Not a great one lads.p I am enjoying it but it really can't help but get in the way of itself. Took me one hour to beat him. Think I was +4 as I found him earlier. So much rage for 60 minutes. |
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