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Post by Aunt Alison on Nov 13, 2021 22:36:37 GMT
I imagine people aren't getting the full Elden Ring experience. You'll be able to try different builds and playstyles in the full game, make it easier or harder for yourself
You don't have to use the summons and hasn't magic always been easy mode anyway?
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Post by FlexibleFeline on Nov 13, 2021 22:41:13 GMT
Yes. Magic feels as powerful here as in Demon's. That plus summoning spirits is definitely easy mode in the demo.
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malek86
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Post by malek86 on Nov 13, 2021 22:44:02 GMT
I've always been a no shield melee dude, so I've basically always been playing on hard mode. I know that, it's just that it's worked fairly well for me so far.
Still, I'd say the final boss was hard by most standards? He has several combos, very delayed attacks, and can counter with the knife almost instantly. Then after getting down to half health he becomes even worse.
Again though, I couldn't summon anyone, I guess things would have been a lot easier if I could.
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Post by FlexibleFeline on Nov 13, 2021 22:54:09 GMT
I always just want to find the easiest way to deal with bosses. I definitely don't have the skill or reflexes to learn patterns, dodge etc.
By the way, when I say summon I mean using an item, specifically the Lone Wolf Ashes spirit summon, which can be bought from the merchant at Church of Elleh.
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Post by Aunt Alison on Nov 13, 2021 23:06:56 GMT
I've always been a no shield melee dude, so I've basically always been playing on hard mode. I know that, it's just that it's worked fairly well for me so far. Same for me. I don't know if it's easier or harder - I consider it easier for me, especially after Bloodborne. Always take mobility over damage/defence I tend to go with Dex weapons as well. I don't mind doing less damage. I'd rather feel like I've learned a boss properly and am able to stick it out doing less damage than rely on doing enough damage before I run out of Estus
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JonFE
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Post by JonFE on Nov 13, 2021 23:11:09 GMT
By the way, when I say summon I mean using an item, specifically the Lone Wolf Ashes spirit summon, which can be bought from the merchant at Church of Elleh.
Do you need any items to summon spirits, besides the ashes you mentioned?
/doesn't like reading manuals...
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Post by FlexibleFeline on Nov 13, 2021 23:15:29 GMT
By the way, when I say summon I mean using an item, specifically the Lone Wolf Ashes spirit summon, which can be bought from the merchant at Church of Elleh.
Do you need any items to summon spirits, besides the ashes you mentioned?
/doesn't like reading manuals...
Nope! Just the item - equip it as you would a consumable; it's permanent but they do use up varying amounts of FP and you only seem to be able to use them once per boss fight. So there are restrictions, but very useful indeed.
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JonFE
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Post by JonFE on Nov 13, 2021 23:26:25 GMT
FlexibleFeline Thanks, that's something to check tomorrow. Good thing you can travel between bonfires grace sites, perhaps it will help me against Magrit
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malek86
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Post by malek86 on Nov 14, 2021 11:02:55 GMT
Think I'm gonna give it one last try. If I can summon someone, I might be able to at least kill the big dude before the end of the test. Even if that means I won't have explored much beyond the mandatory road.
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neems
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Post by neems on Nov 14, 2021 11:23:52 GMT
Do you not need to explore and level up in order to beat the big dude? I'm sure it's doable straight off, but I imagine the game will be really hard if you only do the critical path.
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Post by skalpadda on Nov 14, 2021 11:52:26 GMT
Same for me. I don't know if it's easier or harder - I consider it easier for me, especially after Bloodborne. Always take mobility over damage/defence
In general pressing a button to hold a shield up and not take damage is obviously easier than having to time a dodge, especially if you're new to the games and don't have a feel for the I-frames (or don't even know that there are I-frames, which seems common for beginners).
On the other hand, dodging instead of blocking lets you position better, be more aggressive and use stamina for attacks instead of defence so fights end quicker. Some things aren't really blockable, and then there's equip load where forgoing a shield can let you equip other useful stuff.
There are differences between the games as well. DS1 starts you off against an army of weak hollows that are very easy and safe to block but super dangerous if you get caught in a chain of their attacks, so it trains you to think that shields are crucial early on. In DS2 I don't think you can even have a 100% shield at the start, but then you also have crappy agility so your dodging is crap as well. I don't know what they were thinking, frankly. DS3 definitely pushes you to rely a lot less on shields in general.
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Post by bichii on Nov 14, 2021 12:50:16 GMT
A more positive and sober experience today. Still the combat feels too dated for my tastes but I enjoyed the exploring and some spells I found. looking forward to the release.
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malek86
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Post by malek86 on Nov 14, 2021 12:54:21 GMT
I died a few more times, said screw it (summons still seem pretty iffy, they almost never work) and went somewhere else. Found a cave and killed a few enemies, and then killed the boss at the bottom. My ego has recovered slightly. Guess that's enough for me. There are differences between the games as well. DS1 starts you off against an army of weak hollows that are very easy and safe to block but super dangerous if you get caught in a chain of their attacks, so it trains you to think that shields are crucial early on. In DS2 I don't think you can even have a 100% shield at the start, but then you also have crappy agility so your dodging is crap as well. I don't know what they were thinking, frankly. DS3 definitely pushes you to rely a lot less on shields in general. [/div][/quote] On the other hand, DS2 becomes a lot easier if you specifically know how it works, because then you can just pump all of your early levels into agility. I think my problem is that I started with Demon's Souls rather than Dark Souls. Because the community was pretty small back then, there wasn't a lot of consensus on what were the best tactics. So I kinda went and made a shield-less build because it seemed simpler to manage. By the time people realised in Dark Souls that shields were essential for an easy time, it was too late to change my habits. Well, it did prepare me for Bloodborne. I think I didn't have as much trouble with that game as some other people.
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Post by Aunt Alison on Nov 14, 2021 13:08:29 GMT
Same for me. I don't know if it's easier or harder - I consider it easier for me, especially after Bloodborne. Always take mobility over damage/defence
In general pressing a button to hold a shield up and not take damage is obviously easier than having to time a dodge, especially if you're new to the games and don't have a feel for the I-frames (or don't even know that there are I-frames, which seems common for beginners).
On the other hand, dodging instead of blocking lets you position better, be more aggressive and use stamina for attacks instead of defence so fights end quicker. Some things aren't really blockable, and then there's equip load where forgoing a shield can let you equip other useful stuff.
There are differences between the games as well. DS1 starts you off against an army of weak hollows that are very easy and safe to block but super dangerous if you get caught in a chain of their attacks, so it trains you to think that shields are crucial early on. In DS2 I don't think you can even have a 100% shield at the start, but then you also have crappy agility so your dodging is crap as well. I don't know what they were thinking, frankly. DS3 definitely pushes you to rely a lot less on shields in general.
Makes sense. It seems strange to me to just stand there and let an enemy hit you and take stamina damage. I'm just a more proactive player in general. My point with saying it was easier for me is just because it suits my playstyle more so I'd struggle with a shield, or at least wouldn't enjoy it as much. I can't even abide running more slowly due to equip load
My order of playing was Bloodborne, then DS3, DS1, DS2, so it sounds like I skipped my shields conditioning
Shields are nice, but not if they engender passivity
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Post by FlexibleFeline on Nov 14, 2021 13:51:11 GMT
I didn't beat Margit the Fell in the end - yes, I who said "the bosses seem easy". Let me be clear: this is true of the mini-bosses / dungeon bosses but not the main ones like Margit.
I switched up tactics - going off and buying a bastard sword, grinding a bit for smithing stones in the mines and upgrading it. Maybe a bit better, especially with fire added but I just couldn't get past that final 20%- 30% of his health bar. He's quite unpredictable, making dodging by rolling a bit hit and miss; and he can really close a gap quickly or spam ranged attacks at you when you back off to heal or replenish FP.
Anyway, I ended up summoning a couple of random players, about 3 or 4 times - didn't fare any better, they were crapper than me :-D We'll see how I get on in February...
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malek86
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Post by malek86 on Nov 14, 2021 14:02:01 GMT
He also seems to have a whole lot of health. Many of the stronger Souls bosses are quite fragile, whereas the more durable ones tend to attack slowly and somewhat predictably. It's hard to find a fast and difficult boss that won't go down in relatively few hits. Basically, it's either slow attrition or all-out warfare.
But this guy doesn't take much damage at all, so my patience starts to wear out after a while. Maybe I could have tried to improve my weapon, but I don't know how many chances you had in the demo. They didn't really explain how to upgrade your equipment, and I didn't find any Art of War for the axe.
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Post by bichii on Nov 14, 2021 14:04:43 GMT
The hold block then hit heavy attack straight after seems op. I beat the boss in a dungeon with just spamming it. He also staggered very easily it seemed for the back stab. I never beat the main path boss. Got him down low a few times but didn't finish him off. That magic hammer was a bitch
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Tuffty
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Post by Tuffty on Nov 14, 2021 14:09:31 GMT
My time with the Elden Ring network test just came to an end. Pretty much as I expected it to be, open world Dark Souls in all but name. My biggest worry was if they could make the open fields interesting but I saw plenty of activity, enemy camps, dungeons to explore with mini bosses and valuable treasure. Never got a chance to explore any big region to see if it still has the fabled level design and shortcut porn from Souls games as a main boss was blocking my route up until the end. Tons of fun though, I'm more excited now to play the game than I previously was.
I wouldnt read too much into boss health, attack, difficulty etc. Its all artifical for the sake of the demo, I remember the DS2 beta being the same way.
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Post by FlexibleFeline on Nov 14, 2021 14:14:46 GMT
Yeah, I had actually forgotten about weapon upgrading until my son had a go (he's really bloody good) and declared the fight bullshit, with too little damage output, saying I needed to upgrade my weapon...so I googled and I'd totally forgotten there's an anvil for upgrading next to the merchant in the church. You can upgrade to +3 if you have enough smithing stones (from the mine). They are scarce, though. It helped a bit but not massively - he's just a bit of a bastard for the reasons you both mention (high health and that 2nd phase magic hammer attack - really quite hard to avoid, and my health is pretty much gone by then).
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JonFE
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Post by JonFE on Nov 14, 2021 14:16:02 GMT
My son butchered Margit on his first try with the help of the Noble Wandering Ashes summon and those little Homing Swords you can attach to the TwinBlade I found. He also beat the Tree Sentinel (gold horse rider) by the church on his second try... This after my numerous failed attempts on both, which just goes to show me that he will play the game a lot better than I ever will... He is also the one that explained to me some of the new mechanics that I refused to read/understand... Ohh well, passing the torch, c'est la vie
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Post by FlexibleFeline on Nov 14, 2021 14:16:23 GMT
My time with the Elden Ring network test just came to an end. Pretty much as I expected it to be, open world Dark Souls in all but name. My biggest worry was if they could make the open fields interesting but I saw plenty of activity, enemy camps, dungeons to explore with mini bosses and valuable treasure. Never got a chance to explore any big region to see if it still has the fabled level design and shortcut porn from Souls games as a main boss was blocking my route up until the end. Tons of fun though, I'm more excited now to play the game than I previously was. I wouldnt read too much into boss health, attack, difficulty etc. Its all artifical for the sake of the demo, I remember the DS2 beta being the same way. True, I think we can expect pretty much everything to be different, including item placement etc. I can't bloody wait to be honest, I found the main boss frustrating but loved the experience overall.
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Post by FlexibleFeline on Nov 14, 2021 14:16:59 GMT
My son butchered Margit on his first try with the help of the Noble Wandering Ashes summon and those little Homing Swords you can attach to the TwinBlade I found. He also beat the Tree Sentinel (gold horse rider) by the church on his second try... This after my numerous failed attempts on both, which goes to show me that he will play the game a lot better than I ever will... He is also the one that explained to me some of the new mechanics that I refused to read/understand... Ohh well, passing the torch, c'est la vie Haha, good lad!
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Post by skalpadda on Nov 14, 2021 14:21:05 GMT
I was going to stay away from spoiling myself as much as possible but I caved and watched a few videos and a PvP stream from the network test today. So, thoughts: Looks like I'll enjoy it. Very Dark Souls 3, both in terms of designs and combat, which I'm fine with. The overworld (at least this part of it) doesn't look super exciting but the locations, dungeons and bosses/minibosses look good. They seem to have realised that a horse should be a useful and convenient way to get around. A relief compared to a lot of other open world games where just calling and getting off and on your horse is an ordeal.
Wolves are boring. Boo.
I approve of birds with swords for legs. Santa Claus. By the time people realised in Dark Souls that shields were essential for an easy time, it was too late to change my habits. I'm not so sure they are. There's more of a learning curve to not using a shield for sure, but once you can time your dodges you have a lot of advantages as well. Letting you play however you want is one of the best things about the games though, so screw what's best or easiest or optimal. My order of playing was Bloodborne, then DS3, DS1, DS2, so it sounds like I skipped my shields conditioning
Shields are nice, but not if they engender passivity If you played BB first it's no wonder if you find the thought of turtling behind shields a bit boring. DS1, 2, 3, BB for me, and I've used shields progressively less.
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JonFE
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Post by JonFE on Nov 14, 2021 14:30:28 GMT
So far, my main concern was that previous games were more or less linear experiences tightly designed around that linearity. For example, the worst that could happen to the player in original Dark Souls was to head to the catacombs early on, but the skeletons punished the err in your choice and you headed another way... Perhaps, Elden Ring's open world could be less focused on that, but I have faith in Hidetaka Miyazaki to pull this off As for the extra mechanics like crafting items, ashes of war etc only time will tell how much they will annoy me, as I'm used to playing these games using only a handful of items (those that restore or boost health, magic or stamina, those that cure poison, bleed etc, upgrade materials for the weapons I like) and ignore the rest...
... and the fact they added a jump button made the whole "two handed hold" a bit more complicated than I'd like; hopefully you will be able to remap some keys
Edit: coming to this right after Demon Souls remake, where I'm playing in familiar territory against familiar enemies meant that I was reckless at first, thinking I could take anyone just by being aggressive... I remembered quickly enough that turtling behind a shield is a valid tactic in Souls games when on unfamiliar ground
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2021 14:55:23 GMT
It’s a network test. Like others they’ve done in the past, player health and abilities are boosted, enemy and boss health isn’t what will appear in the final game.
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Post by quadfather on Nov 14, 2021 15:07:17 GMT
So overall impressions then? Boosted chars and enemy boss health aside?
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Post by Danno on Nov 14, 2021 15:18:37 GMT
So overall impressions then? Boosted chars and enemy boss health aside? Can't wait for the release and I'm taking that week off to play it, and possibly sending Ms Danno to a hotel too.
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Post by quadfather on Nov 14, 2021 15:27:40 GMT
Haha, sounds positive then
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JonFE
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Post by JonFE on Nov 14, 2021 18:59:25 GMT
quadfather Positive from me as well. As I said, for all intents and purposes this is Dark Souls 4 in an open world setting. IMHO, it plays as a "best of Souls", with both familiar & brand new mechanics and several open world elements that could expand the whole experience.
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Post by Danno on Nov 14, 2021 21:00:40 GMT
For me it's like that Simpsons episode where they focus group the school for the perfect toy, except they only asked me and it was about videogames
It could be shit, but what I've played so far sort of says it won't be, and I don't really care what anyone else thinks tbh. I love it
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