Frog
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Post by Frog on May 4, 2023 19:12:42 GMT
I shall still make the sweetest of love to you Wunty.
Smashed that new page
And Wunty
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Post by baihu1983 on May 4, 2023 20:28:27 GMT
MS have a lot more well reviewed games than not this gen. Also hold the record for highest review average in a single year. I've enjoyed a lot of games with a lower MC score than this.
A change in engine was likely needed due to it being an open-world/multiplayer game.
In their previous game Prey, the main game was made with CryEngine but the Typhon Hunter DLC, which has multiplayer and VR functionality, switched to UE4.
UE4 has had a reputation hit in open-world games with recent games like Jedi Survivor and Gotham Knights.
Poor performance and visual issues. Has some nice elements to the graphics: Dynamic time of day with dynamic shadow maps The volumetric cloud and mist system looks good.
Textures (mostly) look very detailed. The not-so-good: Severe and persistent texture streaming issues.
Especially with layered textures and decals. One example took 18 seconds to pop in. Problem is even present in cutscenes, likely an issue with the game rather than the hardware. "Worst pop-in since Rage".
Shadow quality has low res and artifacts. It is updated every frame but any close inspection looks "gnarly". The lack of dynamic indirect lighting gives character models pretty jarring lighting. AI often just breaks during gameplay. Enemies just stop fighting, can't see you, and even when there are no bugs the game struggles to balance stealth vs aggressive approach.
Just some random, weird bugs in how effects are set up that suggest they're unfinished. Random glitches like graphic settings changing themselves, physics breaking, controls locking out and clipping through objects.
No Quick Resume because online lobby nature.
Arkane often has technical issues but this game was the worst by far.
Series X: 4Kwith TAA and no dynamic resolution scaling detected.
Very stable 30 fps with correct frame pacing.
Does have traversal stutter when traveling between sections of a map.
Significant dips when alpha effects fill screen (fire, red mist, etc).
Series S: 1440P with TAA and no dynamic resolution scaling detected Very stable 30 fps with correct frame pacing.
Does have traversal stutter when traveling between sections of a map. Has much better performance than Series X with alpha effects, could be due to lower resolution alpha effects.
No screen space reflections but there were a couple cutscenes that included it for some reason. Lower-quality shadows. Lower resolution textures....but they load in a bit faster than Series X.
John suggests this setting is just broken.
John is guessing the reason it doesn't have a 60 fps mode is due to poor threading/CPU utilization as seen on the PC version like other open-world UE4 games.
Default controller settings have huge dead zone and poorly adjusted aim acceleration. Can improve by setting "Input Response" to Low and adjusting the aim sensitivity to 2.5.
Gameplay-wise, most of the overworld is empty.
No enemies, missions, points of interest, etc. The primary missions are more traditional Arkane with dense environments and multiple paths.
This and other open-world UE4 games serve as a good advertisement for UE5.
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askew
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Post by askew on May 4, 2023 20:48:31 GMT
I find the headshot hit-marker effect very satisfying.
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askew
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Post by askew on May 4, 2023 20:49:58 GMT
This means there is a designer at Arkane who really likes how this feels. Harvey?!
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Post by ToomuchFluffy on May 5, 2023 4:34:52 GMT
So that means that the complaints about the bad controls are entirely down to people being unable to simply adjust their settings?!? Is that somehow more difficult to do for a controller than for a mouse?
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Post by Phattso on May 5, 2023 4:39:12 GMT
There are two settings, the first of which I don’t even understand. It’s stupid. And the defaults are stupid.
We’re not talking about dialing something in that’s close. It’s just bad. Genuinely bad.
Not really analogous to mouse settings on a platform with five thousand different mice. It’s a fucking console. With a fucking joypad. It’s indefensibly bad.
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Post by Phattso on May 5, 2023 4:41:37 GMT
(And I don’t even dislike the game itself as much as some - but the own goals at every turn are maddening)
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Frog
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Post by Frog on May 5, 2023 5:46:33 GMT
Having poor feeling controls is inexcusable, especially in a fps. Every Arkane game has felt a bit shit on controller as well, it's something they should have learnt to fix by now.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on May 5, 2023 6:45:29 GMT
Same with ghostwire, you shouldn’t have to. The game shouldn’t ship in a state where someone has to spend a chunk of the game saying ‘this is shit’ and then figure out what’s wrong.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2023 6:49:45 GMT
It's weird reading this as I have the same complaints with every Arkane game I've played but it never seems to bother anyone else. Their games uniformly feel like shit to play.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on May 5, 2023 7:06:55 GMT
The difference is that it’s usually made up for with story, setting, atmosphere and interesting gameplay mechanics and, sadly, they all absolutely suck in this one.
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wunty
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Post by wunty on May 5, 2023 8:15:32 GMT
It's weird reading this as I have the same complaints with every Arkane game I've played but it never seems to bother anyone else. Their games uniformly feel like shit to play. I think your complaints were always valid to be fair. I think I've always noticed but it's never been an issue before due to the pace I always went at in their previous games. Dishonored 1, 2 & DotO, alongside Prey, Mooncrash and Deathloop. Each one I was stealthy stealthy. Taking it really slowly. This is a completely different style of game and from what I see it centres around gunplay, not stealth, so I can see why more people are noticing it and complaining about it now. Think I said earlier but the way their games control has always discouraged me from going full ham, but as I'm a stealth player first and foremost, and because the option was always there, I took that route.
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Post by darkling on May 5, 2023 8:58:29 GMT
They have released a couple of excellent games already this year, then they release one shit one and everyone is going on about how terrible they are. Feel there is a massive overreaction to a bad game. I agree. I think it shows just how many people are invested in the ol' console wars, whether they realise it or not. I think people should at least see how Microsoft's 2 big games this year pan out (Starfield and Forza) before passing judgement on Microsoft's entire Xbox division.
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Post by Jambowayoh on May 5, 2023 9:09:15 GMT
I don't think it's console wars in the slightest (obviously not for everyone who isn't 10yrs old). It's a game from a renowned developer part of MS's big push of exclusives to get people onto Xbox and for all intents and purposes it's failed, miserably and more importantly it's MS's first 70 quid game so there's a clear expectation here of perceived quality. They've released games, some critically received well, but have any of them got people talking and saying I want to get an Xbox so I can play this game that I can't play on any other console? Take into account that Sony's last exclusive was GoW Ragnarok and Nintendo's next is Zelda you might start to realise why people are concerned, couple that with a 30% drop in hardware sales for consoles that are more readily available than PS5's in some areas I truly think it's symptomatic of something truly troubling at MS.
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wunty
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Post by wunty on May 5, 2023 9:16:30 GMT
Well yeah that's it. Thing is, I'd genuinely love a reason to get back on Xbox. The 360 was / still is one of my favourite consoles ever. Sony just keep knocking it out the park with exclusives that for my money, MS can't get close to yet. Redfall could literally have been the game that put me on to getting an S or X later in the year*, and I'm more disappointed than anything that's it's not going to be that game.
* I mean come on. It's Arkane. it's Vampires. The setting is dripping with Lovecraft. It should be a no brainer for me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2023 9:21:51 GMT
Maybe giving all of your exclusive games away for free wasn't such a great idea after all.
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Post by Jambowayoh on May 5, 2023 9:24:19 GMT
Maybe giving all of your exclusive games away for free wasn't such a great idea after all. That point would hit harder if they had a lot of exclusives that people wanted to play. But if Starfield does the business then yeah I think people will get an Xbox for it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2023 9:34:29 GMT
I more mean that not getting any money to put into their development is a bad thing.
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wunty
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Post by wunty on May 5, 2023 9:39:17 GMT
I just don't see how stuff like GP is viable in the long term. People are more likely to form an attachment to a game they have paid money for. Stick with it longer, and still be playing it to forkout money for DLCs and extras. The subscription model just encourages people to try it and ditch it. Same with Sony at it now as well.
Then again I know nothing about this stuff.
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Post by darkling on May 5, 2023 9:39:49 GMT
Microsoft have a ton of cash to throw around though, and they're clearly happy to "give away" their games on Game Pass and treat it as a loss leader, just to get a strong foothold in the game subscription market.
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Post by Jambowayoh on May 5, 2023 9:42:20 GMT
I just don't see how stuff like GP is viable in the long term. People are more likely to form an attachment to a game they have paid money for. Stick with it longer, and still be playing it to forkout money for DLCs and extras. The subscription model just encourages people to try it and ditch it. Same with Sony at it now as well.
Then again I know nothing about this stuff.
For MS it's more important and something they're happy to take a loss on as it's their ultimate goal to leave consoles and just have the Gamepass platform on EVERYTHING. But I don't think that's a secret.
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wunty
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Post by wunty on May 5, 2023 9:43:38 GMT
Maybe I just hate the thought of a game subscription service in general. I like to own shit.
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Post by dfunked on May 5, 2023 9:46:16 GMT
I'm less likely to stick with a game if it's shit that's been shovelled out just to keep the release numbers up, but something genuinely good like FH5 kept me involved just as long as it would've if I'd bought it. I guess there's a bit of sunk cost fallacy to it, though. If I buy a mediocre game then I'm far more likely to see it through to the end, but that same game on GP would've been dropped early on.
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Post by Jambowayoh on May 5, 2023 9:48:37 GMT
Maybe I just hate the thought of a game subscription service in general. I like to own shit. I used to but for me it was the amount of boxes I had plus how many publishers are moving to the disc/cart not having the full game on it which doesn't sit right with me but PC folk seem to get on fine without having physical games.
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wunty
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Post by wunty on May 5, 2023 10:16:15 GMT
I'm not fussed about physically owning, just owning, even digitally, if you know what I mean. But I know then that's a whole different kettle of eggs about whether I'm still actually owning it or not.
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wunty
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Post by wunty on May 5, 2023 10:17:27 GMT
I'm less likely to stick with a game if it's shit that's been shovelled out just to keep the release numbers up, but something genuinely good like FH5 kept me involved just as long as it would've if I'd bought it. I guess there's a bit of sunk cost fallacy to it, though. If I buy a mediocre game then I'm far more likely to see it through to the end, but that same game on GP would've been dropped early on. Exactly.
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deez
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Post by deez on May 5, 2023 10:32:02 GMT
So that means that the complaints about the bad controls are entirely down to people being unable to simply adjust their settings?!? Is that somehow more difficult to do for a controller than for a mouse? Why should people have to change anything? It should be good out of the box, with any tweaking purely for personal preference. I suspect most barely know these options exist.
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Post by Vandelay on May 5, 2023 10:42:08 GMT
I just don't see how stuff like GP is viable in the long term. People are more likely to form an attachment to a game they have paid money for. Stick with it longer, and still be playing it to forkout money for DLCs and extras. The subscription model just encourages people to try it and ditch it. Same with Sony at it now as well.
Then again I know nothing about this stuff.
As much as I do like my Game Pass sub and feel it is good value for money (at least with the cheap ways of getting it), I have always felt it would need to change in order to exist long term. And I can only see two ways it can go. 1) make it very developer led. Let them do there own thing and put out shorter games made with smaller teams, creating a wide variety of content that people can dip in and out of, finish one thing off in a few evenings before moving to the next. This is the good path. 2) make everything a games as service game that keeps people playing forever and ever. Have lots of microtransactions in the games to get people spending more on top of their subscription. Ensure games are designed to keep people playing for long periods or getting them to keep coming back for events. There might be nods to smaller games, but the GaaS games make so much more money that all the effort will ultimately go to them. This is the hellscape path. I would be very happy for Game Pass to go down the first route, but I can't see it taking any other path but the second one.
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Post by dfunked on May 5, 2023 10:48:51 GMT
Are GaaS games actually a viable option these days, though? Feels like for every successful one there are another 10 that get shitcanned within a year.
With the reaction to stuff like Suicide Squad, I can't see many publishers salivating at the thought.
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Post by Vandelay on May 5, 2023 10:59:57 GMT
Maybe. Although I think GaaS is a style that can be applied in a lot of ways. What people are rejecting is the floaty combat that leads to floaty numbers. They also are rejecting games that are forcing a particular style into franchises that don't really lend themselves to it. Getting a new shiny hat for the Hulk that gives +5 to agility is jarring.
Fortnite, Apex Legends, Destiny 2, Warframe, FFXIV, Roblox. Those are all successful implementations of GaaS and they are very different games. Although, interestingly, none of them are particularly associated with a particular console and definitely not with the console manufacturers.
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