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Post by JuniorFE on Jun 7, 2022 12:08:16 GMT
It's a bit heavier in RPG elements than most Metroidvanias, but I'd like to give a shout to Dust: An Elysian Tail. Gorgeous artstyle, great soundtrack and fun voice acting, simple but satisfying gameplay and it has quite a few optional challenges without overstaying its welcome as far as the main story is concerned.
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Post by RadicalRex on Jun 13, 2022 20:43:23 GMT
Monster Boy and the Cursed Kingdom - 8/10
That score is my personal enjoyment, not an "objective" assessment of the game--if I was into puzzle platformers, the score would have been higher because "objectively" this is a great game. I enjoyed it more than Hollow Knight even though that is actually my type of game.
In the beginning of the game I was a little outside my comfort zone, with the beaches and blue skies and smiling crabs and happy tune it's so relentlessly cheerful it made me a little confused and scared. It's not for the faint of heart. But after a bit of acclimatisation I gave in and was always looking forward to backtracking to that area for the soundtrack alone. I took the anime intro as tongue-in-cheek and didn't mind.
You can see the love and care that went into it everywhere, it's really well designed and polished (looking at you Bloodstained, cough), graphics, music, sound design, animation, everything really. I also found it very well balanced, not punishing but no sleepwalk either, most of the time at least. Usually just the right amount to just have a good time.
Lots of praise for an 8/10, I know. But again, I'm not actually a fan of puzzle platformers, I lean heavily into more action-oriented ones. I don't like timer-based puzzles and this game has a lot of them, although thankfully the timer isn't usually frustratingly tight. I'm not a fan of switching between different forms all the time, again a lot of that in this game. At some points it did became a somewhat frustrating test of patience when I had trouble figuring out what to do and where, especially in the mansion.
But despite all that I had fun overall and wouldn't want to miss it. I can definitely see why you'd regard it so highly.
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Post by RadicalRex on Jun 13, 2022 20:50:34 GMT
Meanwhile, I did swear I'd finally finish Yoshi's Island this time. But I can't. I just can't. I'm not having fun and the levels feel far too long, it's like doing work that I don't want to do, I feel like I've forced myself through it for a long time and I'm not even halfway through. I think I'll abandon it for good this time.
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Post by dangerousdave on Jun 13, 2022 23:03:35 GMT
I loved Yoshi's Island first time around, but didn't finish my most recent playthrough of it. You just gotta be in the right mood for it. Or at least I do. The levels are long, as you say, and the pace slow if you're trying to collect everything.
I do love it, though.
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Post by RadicalRex on Jun 15, 2022 16:12:29 GMT
Turns out you can actually disable screen shake in Hollow Knight, via a config file. Why isn't this in the options? Started a new playthrough and it's such an improvement. Gameplay is much smoother now, and dare I say it, actually enjoyable. Wish I'd known this earlier, would have saved me a lot of frustration.
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cubby
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Post by cubby on Jun 15, 2022 16:44:20 GMT
Guessing that's just a PC thing? The shake and pause is one of the things that's making the game unenjoyable for me.
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Post by damagedinc on Jun 15, 2022 17:29:23 GMT
Playing horace and loving it at the moment, only on chapter 8 but heard it goes on alot longer which worries me. Its brilliant but don't want it to become a chore.
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Post by RadicalRex on Jun 15, 2022 18:27:32 GMT
cubbyYeah, PC only I guess. Unless there's some way to access the console's file system, and hoping there's that config file sitting there in the directory waiting to be text edited
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cubby
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Post by cubby on Jun 15, 2022 18:32:15 GMT
Maybe when I get my steam deck in a year's time then.
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Post by Red_Bool on Jun 15, 2022 18:34:34 GMT
Playing horace and loving it at the moment, only on chapter 8 but heard it goes on alot longer which worries me. Its brilliant but don't want it to become a chore. It becomes quite difficult in places, but persevere because it's worth it!
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Jun 21, 2022 9:56:04 GMT
Which of the games in this genre has the best combat? Any suggestions?
From what I've seen, Blasphemous looks to be the most appealing to me in this regard - it has dedicated parry and dodge buttons, parrying seems to be a big part of combat, there are ranged attack options, and so on. (Unfortunately the control scheme seems decidedly sub-optimal, with no remapping option on PS4!)
Anyway, if anyone has any input here, it'd be received with gratitude. I know combat isn't exactly the point of these games, but I think solid fighting mechanics would be important to me as a Metroidvania n00b.
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Post by dfunked on Jun 21, 2022 9:57:24 GMT
Have you tried Guacamelee? Pretty fun combat in both of those IMO.
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Post by Aunt Alison on Jun 21, 2022 9:57:52 GMT
2D platformers in general?
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Jun 21, 2022 9:58:37 GMT
Have you tried Guacamelee? Pretty fun combat in both of those IMO.
I haven't! Thanks - will look into 'em.
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Jun 21, 2022 10:00:32 GMT
2D platformers in general?
Yeah, pretty much - they don't have to be Metroidvanias per se.
I'm basically looking for something different to play between Horizon Forbidden West/Elden Ring (first half of 2022) and The Witcher 3/God of War Ragnarok (hopefully second half of 2022). I figured something 2D/top-down/isometric would be a nice change of pace!
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Post by Aunt Alison on Jun 21, 2022 10:16:58 GMT
Mega Man and Castlevania are really popular 2D action platformers (Castlevania games were more tradition 2D action games before Symphony of the Night) They're old but there's loads. The older Castlevania games can be quite stiff to control There's plenty of action (combat) platformers though, don't worry
If roguelikes are your thing, you'll probably get a lot of mileage out of Dead Cells
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Jun 21, 2022 10:23:25 GMT
Thanks, AA. Nine Sols (trailer posted by Blue_Mike on p. 5) looks to be 100% up my street. "Sekiro-inspired deflection-focused combat"? Sign me the hell up! I *really* hope that one comes to PS5 eventually.
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Post by Aunt Alison on Jun 21, 2022 10:25:52 GMT
I don't personally like it but Salt & Sanctuary is basically a 2D souls rip off. There's another one that does the same with Bloodborne (not sure if it's by the same people - wouldn't surprise me)
I think Dead Cells has countering, not sure
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Jun 21, 2022 10:31:22 GMT
I'm not *necessarily* looking for a Soulslike - as much as I loved it, almost 200 hours in Elden Ring has me ready for a break on that front! - but I'll certainly take a look at Salt and Sanctuary. Thanks again.
I don't suppose you'd remember the name of the Bloodborne-eque game, perchance? According to Wikipedia, the only other recent game made by the S&S devs is Salt and Sacrifice, which I'm assuming is a straight sequel to Sanctuary.
Dead Cells has parrying in a sense, as I understand it, in that you can use your 'secondary weapon' button to parry if you happen to have a shield; however, it's not a dedicated parrying system per se, if that makes any sense at all.
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Post by Aunt Alison on Jun 21, 2022 10:38:23 GMT
Think it might be this but I know absolutely nothing about it beyond it looking a bit like Bloodborne in the trailer
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Post by Aunt Alison on Jun 21, 2022 10:48:17 GMT
You might also want to check out Katana Zero and Mark of the Ninja (this one's more stealth)
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Post by RadicalRex on Jun 21, 2022 11:29:28 GMT
Can't say anything about parry-based combat because I generally don't like that gameplay style and don't enjoy those games--I like movement-based combat where you jump around a lot. But I'll talk about Hollow Knight, Bloodstained, Castlevania SotN and Axiom Verge here.
First, forget about Axiom Verge because combat is its weakest part. It's mostly an atmosphere/exploration focussed game, there's no way around the fact that enemy and boss design is not good. The shooting is there but it's not very engaging, and too easy.
SotN isn't the greatest either, it's fine for what it is but definitely shows its age. Again I think it's more about atmosphere and exploration than tight combat. Difficulty mostly comes from being new to the game and its mechanics, once you get used to it and understand how it works it's very easy too. I wouldn't call it very engaging either.
Of these games (and not only in terms of combat), Hollow Knight is probably the safest bet, it offers a decent enough challenge and has a lot of optional boss fights that can be pretty brutal. Its accessibility can work both for and against it: you have a very limited toolset that's instantly understandable and doesn't raise any questions, difficulty comes mostly from mastering your timing and you move and jump around a lot. It's very tightly designed around that and it's very fast-paced.
On the downside, it's pretty repetitive and regular enemies are pretty hack'n'slashy. You have one (very simple) weapon throughout the entire game, which can feel samey if the base mechanics don't keep you hooked. But again, that core gameplay is designed well and the fast pace prevents getting too bored. Overall, among metroidvanias which often don't have very engaging action, HK is among the best in terms of combat and that's certainly not the only area where it shines.
Bloodstained is kind of the opposite (btw it's basically a modernised SotN). In my opinion, in terms of combat it beats HK, but it comes with many caveats. First of all, it only really comes to life in hard mode which I believe is the intended difficulty the game is designed around. Problem: you have to beat the game in normal mode to even unlock that, and in normal it feels pretty basic and not very engaging because you're not forced to learn mechanics and enemy patterns. And a first playthrough is roughly around the 20 hours mark, so it's a long time investment to even get where the combat gets good.
Once you get there there's a lot to like, it has a reasonably complex moveset, a ton of different weapons with lots of advantages and disadvantages, a ton of vastly different spells to combine them with, which leads to a myriad of different ways to play and replay the game. Enemies are very different to each other and all need different approaches, there's a lot of tactics involved including prioritising enemies, and everything changes based on the weapon/spell set you're using. After hundreds of hours of playing, I still learned new fun things.
It also has (imo) the best jumping mechanics of all these games, they're a delight. So yeah, imo Bloodstained really shines in the combat department, but it definitely requires long-term commitment. And not all is great, for all the shine there's also a lot of jank, most notably boss fights are shit, no way around that.
So yeah, if you're looking for enjoyable combat straight away instead of only after dozens of hours, among these games I think HK is the way to go.
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Jun 21, 2022 11:34:46 GMT
Many thanks for that, Rob - a very thoughtful and detailed post.
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Post by Aunt Alison on Jun 21, 2022 11:37:09 GMT
If you're on PC, couldn't you just download a completed save for Bloodstained and go straight onto Hard difficulty?
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Post by RadicalRex on Jun 21, 2022 11:47:17 GMT
On PC, probably yes you could. Although there's another caveat there because on hard the beginning of the game is pretty nasty if you don't already have some understanding of the game's mechanics, I guess that's why it's hidden behind the unlock. And even then the first boss has a seemingly undodgeable attack which you might have to look up online how to dodge, so the potential for frustration is immense, at a stage of the game where combat isn't that interesting yet. So actually I wouldn't even necessarily recommend going there straight away even if you have the option.
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Post by Aunt Alison on Jun 21, 2022 12:54:21 GMT
Have there been any really good modern 2D action platform games that aren't metroidvanias, roguelikes or Mega Man?
I've been in the mood for something but they often are those things. Probably going to end up getting Sonic Mania
Do you like Sonic, Rob?
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Post by RadicalRex on Jun 21, 2022 14:11:27 GMT
I do have Sonic Mania, but I haven't played far because I'm not a huge Sonic fan. Fans say it's amazing though, and from the limited time I played it I got that impression too. I certainly noticed in Sonic's animation what great care and attention to detail went into that, which is usually a good sign that the rest of the game is handled with great care too. As for other modern 2D platformers, I don't know that many actually. The Messenger comes to mind, but it offers surprisingly little in terms of fighting enemies, for the most part they're just moving obstacles (if they're even moving at all) that mostly serve as dummies for charging your cloud step skill. Ulythium, I forgot to mention this game, I wanted to warn you that despite what it may look like it's definitely not a combat game. Even Monster Boy has more combat focus. Ghosts'n'Goblins Resurrection is great at what it does, but what it does is not for everyone of course. You really need to be in the mood for that, you need to be very concentrated, focussed and hell-bent on taking on its gleeful sadism. It's great, but sadly I haven't come very far yet because I'm rarely in that mood. But if you liked the White Palace, in terms of difficulty level I'd say it's comparable--at least in the early game. That leaves 20XX and 30XX, which in a nutshell is Mega Man X gone roguelike. 20XX was an EGS freebie once, so if you used to snatch free games there it may be in your library. 30XX is still in early access, however in its current state it is already a more fleshed out game. Both have great movement and shooting mechanics, and for whatever reason they regularly get me in the "zone" where everything just happens instinctively without ever thinking about it, which is testament to how good the mechanics and controls are. 20XX is pretty repetitive and enemies feel a little simplistic, 30XX is definitely a step up, however I have a big issue with one of the main stages which was added earlier this year. It has so much gravity skulduggery, water mechanics, switching platforms and lots of enemies also subject to gravity and whatnot happening at the same time on a single screen I find it completely overwhelming and sadly it ruins the game for me. edit: video highlighting animation in Sonic Mania. I'm amazed, it's art. Love this stuff.
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dmukgr
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Post by dmukgr on Jun 21, 2022 14:29:29 GMT
Mark of the Ninja?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2022 14:37:54 GMT
I'm not *necessarily* looking for a Soulslike - as much as I loved it, almost 200 hours in Elden Ring has me ready for a break on that front! - but I'll certainly take a look at Salt and Sanctuary. Thanks again. I don't suppose you'd remember the name of the Bloodborne-eque game, perchance? According to Wikipedia, the only other recent game made by the S&S devs is Salt and Sacrifice, which I'm assuming is a straight sequel to Sanctuary. Dead Cells has parrying in a sense, as I understand it, in that you can use your 'secondary weapon' button to parry if you happen to have a shield; however, it's not a dedicated parrying system per se, if that makes any sense at all. Salt and Sanctuary is actually pretty great. Very 2D Dark Souls though as mentioned, but I would recommend it regardless. Another one I recently bought but haven't played enough to comment on yet is Dark Devotion (currently on sale on PSN), which is reminding me of Blasphemous so far.
Honorable mentions for 2D jobbers go to Valfaris, Slain and Sundered, which are all also quite decent.
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Jun 21, 2022 15:36:57 GMT
Did anyone try F.I.S.T.: Forged in Shadow Torch? Terrible name aside, it looked pretty good.
Anyone?
I know it's a bit esoteric, but I figured one of you fine folk would've taken it for a spin!
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