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Post by 😎 on Jan 11, 2022 23:59:20 GMT
Like I said, it’s not a great situation but we’re way better prepared for it than a lot of headlines make it out to be. We have absolutely tons of lessons learned and capacity frameworks built out from Delta that raw stats don’t bear out. I developed some of them myself so this is one area I’m very familiar with.
As far as it being depressing that we’ve not done enough, from an overall pandemic viewpoint I’d agree but on a macro viewpoint regarding omicron, again I think it’s fair to say that there’s nothing that could have been done immediately that wouldn’t have had startling ramifications elsewhere anyway (and probably have not done enough - the omicron wave was inevitable the second a case emerged).
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Post by khanivor on Jan 12, 2022 0:00:58 GMT
Considering you’re making a number of declarative statements yourself I’m not sure that’s the gotcha rebuttal you think it is. Let’s see how things are in a week. Maybe Omicron doesn’t have a jag between a positive test and hospitalization. Maybe the occupancy rates today relate to yesterdays one a half million registered cases, not this time last week’s less than half of that. It would fucking suck if a week from now overall hospitalizations reflected that doubling in known positive cases. I sure fucking hope that the millions a day of new cases don’t result in a notable rise in those needing hospital treatment and that they aren’t including healthcare workers among their numbers. That those workers manage to avoid infection despite working in super spreader environments. Isn’t that the nightmare scenario we all took cumulative action in 2020 to try - and succeeded in - avoiding? End of the day, I don’t think the virus gives a solitary fuck as to whether humans are fed up with it or not, or if they choose a sunnier outlook as their go-to at this point in its reign.
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Youthist
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Post by Youthist on Jan 12, 2022 0:07:02 GMT
“Sunnier outlook” due to the fact we are in a hugely better place than a year ago. So yeah - sunnier outlook if you like.
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Youthist
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Post by Youthist on Jan 12, 2022 0:08:42 GMT
Honestly the levels of doom mongering from some people even when there is some good news around on this thing at the moment is quite staggering.
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Post by 😎 on Jan 12, 2022 0:12:31 GMT
If you think it’s bad here then browse the coronavirus subreddit every once in a while. That’s been saying the total collapse of US healthcare is inevitable regularly since December 2020. It’s like one of those death cults that keep pushing the date of the prophecy out every time it comes around citing a translation error on their sacred texts. Makes this place look like frigging Disneyland on Valium by comparison.
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Post by khanivor on Jan 12, 2022 0:13:12 GMT
We are in a better position thanks to vaccinations, anti virals and other medications and almost two years experience dealing with this thing. That we can be grateful for.
I’m also grateful that my kid got a shot in her eight year old arm end of last year, which is surely why after a couple days she’s pretty much back to normal. Really glad as the attitude round here means no mask mandates anywhere, including in the school she went back to last week. A school where, thanks to new state law, a child with a positive test result illegally cannot he denied entry to the classroom. A state where if you loose your job because you don’t go due to infection there’s no unemployment for you, but if you got fired due to not getting vaccinated you can claim unemployment, despite this being a right to work state where you can be legally fired for literally *anything*
I’m glad I’m all boosted so when I get my test results in a few days and they almost certainly show I’m infected, (couldn’t get tested with my kid, didn’t take my insurance, don’t have $90 to pay for one) I’m so far faring pretty well. The effect it’s having on my perilous finances is going to ducking hurt, and there’s no relief there. I can scrape the money for my past due health insurance bill if I need medical treatment
All in, I’m doing ok, all things considered. Despite being sick, despite the dread when my kid started acting like she was tripping that second night, despite the fallout that’s coming, I’m in a much better place than many. Certainly then the Hispanic neighborhood down in the valley below. They are fucked every so for which way. And they aren’t alone. Even among people born and raised here.
This is the content of my argument; the numbers are a good way of arguing it’s all doom, or it’s all going to be ok, this is the death throes. As always, numbers ignore the people and their suffering. “Fuck it, let’s get it over with, pull of the bandage’ is a much easier thing to say when you’re in a position - alien to millions and millions of infected people - to know it’s all taken care of for you.
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Post by khanivor on Jan 12, 2022 0:15:51 GMT
You can call it doom mongering
Better than the antithesis, which is ‘I’m all right Jack’
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Post by khanivor on Jan 12, 2022 0:18:55 GMT
Also, curious how ‘shattering global records’ is considered good news.
The next few weeks are going to suck a fucking shitload over here. I think it’s totally rational to acknowledge that, even if it upsets sensibilities tired with all the negative nancies
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Post by 😎 on Jan 12, 2022 0:21:26 GMT
I’ve said consistently that contextless numbers aren’t a good thing to concentrate on, so yeah, I agree with you there. And for sure there’s a lot of fallout still to come from various facets of the pandemic that aren’t just direct virus infection - the worldwide mental health crisis when the dust has settled is going to be a doozy. That’s partly why I act like a wang about pessimism in here, because it just doesn’t feel healthy, especially after all this time. Realistic with a dose of mild optimism is the balance I think we should strive for. Sorry for all the shit you’re going through, I know you’ve had it rough even without all that.
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richardiox
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Post by richardiox on Jan 12, 2022 0:21:46 GMT
I think Omicron would steamroll us with anything other than the highest levels of lockdown (April 2020) which requires furlough, and we would have to have that permenantly because as soon as you take the brakes off cases will go mental again. In a population with low(er) immunity, hospitalisations will go up. Rinse repeat.
One of the best solutions, vaccines and specifically a booster, is available. At this point given the choice of full lockdown to slightly slow the growth of Omicron or what's actually happening now I'd go with the latter. Obviously both options are shit by 1997 standards
Guess the upside is that Omicron is now evidenced to be clinically milder and moreso if you're vaccinated/boosted. The protection it affords will hopefully bare dividends for future waves and variants. We're going to hit ridiculously high levels of population immunity in a very short space of time.
The transmissibility of Omicron is fucking scary though. Mind blowing, the extent to which it's grown globally in 6 weeks.
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Post by 😎 on Jan 12, 2022 0:27:37 GMT
I think Omicron would steamroll us with anything other than the highest levels of lockdown (April 2020) which requires furlough, and we would have to have that permenantly because as soon as you take the brakes off cases will go mental again. In a population with low(er) immunity, hospitalisations will go up. Rinse repeat. One of the best solutions, vaccines and specifically a booster, is available. At this point given the choice of full lockdown to slightly slow the growth of Omicron or what's actually happening now I'd go with the latter. Obviously both options are shit by 1997 standards Guess the upside is that Omicron is now evidenced to be clinically milder and moreso if you're vaccinated/boosted. The protection it affords will hopefully bare dividends for future waves and variants. We're going to hit ridiculously high levels of population immunity in a very short space of time. The transmissibility of Omicron is fucking scary though. Mind blowing, the extent to which it's grown globally in 6 weeks. Yeah, that’s pretty much the takeaway we’ve been working off. More aggressive measures will fuck the economy and non-Covid population health just as much as the current outbreak, and only really delay it anyway so a double whammy of people unable to work or get adequate care for one reason or another. Lesser of two evils for sure.
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Post by khanivor on Jan 12, 2022 0:32:49 GMT
Thanks for the empathy, grems, it helps. It really does
Omicron was gonna spank us no matter what. I’d just have preferred an effort was made to try and slow it down, to try to spread its effects across a more manageable, less stressful and deleterious period of time.
I get lots of folks - folks who spent year plus doing the right thing and being decent people - have had enough of the hassle and just want it over, so let’s do this, quick and sharp and get it over with.
I find that particular attitude akin to wanting pan handlers locked up. As if one’s time is the most important thing in the universe
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Post by richardiox on Jan 12, 2022 0:40:36 GMT
Guess try to stay positive and invested in the IRL stuff that makes you happy for the next four weeks then come up to breathe. Get a new game. Sneak in an extra wank or three. It's out of our hands in any realistic way ^
The real blame for deaths and hospitalisations and ICU admissions is increasingly on the non vaccinated not on the policy response which actually seems appropriate given the big picture. You've done your bit and as you've now been fingered by Covid you shouldn't have to worry about that in the Spring either. One of those look to the horizon moments.
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Post by Dougs on Jan 12, 2022 6:44:04 GMT
That's true - the 3 months after I caught Covid were the most free I've felt since it all began. Firstly, catching it removed the mystery and I knew what we were dealing with, and secondly, I knew a reinfection was almost impossible.
All the best Khani - as grem says, it's been rough for you without additional stresses like this.
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スコットランド
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Post by スコットランド on Jan 12, 2022 7:09:04 GMT
Not being 100% convinced that it's all sunny uplands and will be over in a few months isn't doom mongering. I have no idea where we'll be in 6 months, I desperately hope we'll be close to normal life with very low illness and death but none of us here know how It'll be, the virus may be hugely reduced or we may import some bastard variant from somewhere in the world with fuck all vaccinated people. None of us know. The whole "I've decided that it's over so anyone that isn't dancing in the street can get fucked" mentality isn't a good one.
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Post by geefe on Jan 12, 2022 7:59:16 GMT
I think the thing for most people is that one worry has now been supplanted by another - rising prices.
I know it's happened for me. Am I bothered about covid? Yes. Am I more bothered about the fact that bills are going to soar and I'll probably be about £500-1,000 worse off for the next couple of years, as a minimum? Yes.
Based on statistics for my region, about 3-5% of people have covid but 100% of us are paying more to keep warm.
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Youthist
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Post by Youthist on Jan 12, 2022 8:07:25 GMT
Not being 100% convinced that it's all sunny uplands and will be over in a few months isn't doom mongering. I have no idea where we'll be in 6 months, I desperately hope we'll be close to normal life with very low illness and death but none of us here know how It'll be, the virus may be hugely reduced or we may import some bastard variant from somewhere in the world with fuck all vaccinated people. None of us know. The whole "I've decided that it's over so anyone that isn't dancing in the street can get fucked" mentality isn't a good one. Yeah - that thing no one on here is doing you mean? It is unreal the level some are going to on here to keep banging the “it’s all fucked” drum whenever things are shown to be improving. Now that mentality isn’t a good one.
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Youthist
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Post by Youthist on Jan 12, 2022 8:09:39 GMT
You can call it doom mongering Better than the antithesis, which is ‘I’m all right Jack’ Which, again, is being said by precisely nobody.
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Post by richardiox on Jan 12, 2022 8:30:03 GMT
Just because a situation is improving/ less bad doesn't mean that things still a) aren't fucked in the grand scheme and b) people aren't allowed to feel anxious still and post on this thread about it.
This "no negativity!" hard-line approach is total fucking bullshit and unsupportive of each other. The thread should be an outlet for the whole community and everyone is in a different headspace. I've been piled on to for having the audacity to "doom" post (even though I've been balanced).
At the time I had swung to feeling anxious again and having a few community members turn on me for it was depressing - and ridiculous. "You need mental health support!". "This thread is for discussing a pandemic, I'm feeling optimistic so I don't want you dragging me down"...I'm going to alert Gremmi to take action. Bollocks for a community like ours.
There's actually a way to reassure people without shutting them down and ridiculing them. Out of 20 years in the community more than anything else this thread recently has affected me the most with some people's behaviour and "policing".
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Post by スコットランド on Jan 12, 2022 8:53:22 GMT
Not being 100% convinced that it's all sunny uplands and will be over in a few months isn't doom mongering. I have no idea where we'll be in 6 months, I desperately hope we'll be close to normal life with very low illness and death but none of us here know how It'll be, the virus may be hugely reduced or we may import some bastard variant from somewhere in the world with fuck all vaccinated people. None of us know. The whole "I've decided that it's over so anyone that isn't dancing in the street can get fucked" mentality isn't a good one. Yeah - that thing no one on here is doing you mean? It is unreal the level some are going to on here to keep banging the “it’s all fucked” drum whenever things are shown to be improving. Now that mentality isn’t a good one. I must have imagined the repeated pile-ons of the likes of psychotext then.
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Youthist
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Post by Youthist on Jan 12, 2022 8:56:24 GMT
fwiw I completely agree with Richard above. It works both ways though, of course. The optimistic view is getting slammed on here, and it creates a reaction. I don't believe anyone has ever said "no negativity" etc but that keeps getting thrown in. Nobody to my knowledge thinks things are not and have not been a complete fucking nightmare over the last two years. Clearly there are different mindsets when there is a glimmer of light at the end of a shite filled tunnel, and I for one want to look at that as a way out of this. And I think that is there right now, others don't, all fine. I don't appreciate being told my head is in the sand or happy clappy or I am all right jack and all that total fucking utter nonsense, because I don't see anyone saying that on here from the more positive looking folks on here myself included.
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richardiox
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Post by richardiox on Jan 12, 2022 9:06:19 GMT
Imagine reading Khanis posts last night where he is clearly worried and telling us about how things are for him and in his locality/country where there are categorically record numbers of hospitalisations (still rising too) and wider societal effects and then coming back with:
"It is unreal the level some are going to on here to keep banging the “it’s all fucked” drum whenever things are shown to be improving. Now that mentality isn’t a good one"
Imagine doing that. How are things improving in the situation he described? Totally out of order and actually quite horrible.
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Post by dfunked on Jan 12, 2022 9:07:36 GMT
I don't think anybody is saying "dust off your hands lads, good job at beating this thing"
It's definitely looking more positive and may very well be on the path to the new normal, whatever that ends up looking like. Just stop being fannies and let us have this moment of things not looking totally shit after 2 years of this. Without this incessant fucking doom mongering please.
/edit Speaking purely from a living this shit in the UK perspective. Obviously things are looking different elsewhere.
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Post by technoish on Jan 12, 2022 9:10:49 GMT
I see Quebec are putting in place a health tax just targeted at the unvaccinated - to help pay for the extra care they need.
FT had an op article that making unvaccinated pay was on better ethical grounds than a vaccine mandate.
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Dgzter
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Post by Dgzter on Jan 12, 2022 9:13:17 GMT
This Djokovic thing is just getting messier and messier. Blatantly broke restrictions; agent alleged to have 'ticked the wrong box' on the form, a 'human error' resulting in the falsification of visa documents.
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Post by dfunked on Jan 12, 2022 9:15:40 GMT
At least we can all agree that Djokovic is an absolute cockwomble.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2022 9:18:26 GMT
The thread is unhealthy at this point. For the past few weeks I've been posting positive news with the sole reason of seeing how quickly someone goes out of their to put a negative soon on it. It's normally about 2 and a half minutes. I honestly think some people are so used to this shit that they're afraid of things going back to normal.
If it was up to me I'd lock the thread.
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スコットランド
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Post by スコットランド on Jan 12, 2022 9:32:18 GMT
Doommongers can't type anything negative without being jumped on, happy clappers can't post anything positive without being jumped on. It's almost as if there should me a middle ground where we accept that omicron is weaker and killing many fewer people but acknowledging the negative effects of huge chunks of the population being "mildly" sick and that we don't know how future variants will be yet.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2022 9:38:11 GMT
I honestly think some people are so used to this shit that they're afraid of things going back to normal. I think you're on to something there. Not just this thread, I see it elsewhere at home and at work too. It's almost like a Stockholm syndrome, or as someone described it to me there being more certainty in the current uncertainty, than about what comes next.
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Post by TheSaint on Jan 12, 2022 9:45:08 GMT
I'd argue pessimism is probably the default British position on most things, so it's hardly surprising. Things were looking pretty rosy in spring last year before Delta emerged and messed it all up again. So it's not really a surprise that people err on the side of caution.
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