Vandelay
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Post by Vandelay on Jan 12, 2023 14:30:57 GMT
It doesn't really sound like Khan is actually saying that much different to Starmer and the shadow cabinet. They are both saying we need to have closer alignment to the EU.
Unfortunately, it is unlikely that we would be welcomed back into the EU anytime soon and just joining the single market is likely to anger many and is far from an ideal outcome for the UK (even if it was probably the best outcome we could have hoped for when Brexit happened).
I don't like the rhetoric from Starmer, but when you drill past it to what is actually being said, it is probably the only real course we can take.
Also not sure whether the country could take another election/vote that is all about Brexit. That is what the next general election will become if there is even a hint of Starmer thinking of rejoining.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2023 14:32:32 GMT
When even Starmer is now in full on xenophobic little Britain mode and pretending all is fine it is astounding there is no pushback about all this. What? This sort of stuff. www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64173370.ampEdit. There is a big difference between saying we have to work with realities, need to come together and what Starmer is doing which is clearly based to appease the racists and embrace brexit terminology. Along with his no benefits to rejoining etc. |
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geefe
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Post by geefe on Jan 12, 2023 14:35:09 GMT
Yes, that makes him a racist Little Englander.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2023 14:40:06 GMT
Yes, that makes him a racist Little Englander. No. He is pandering to them as he feels he needs the votes. He has decided siding with them is a better choice than with the 48%. Which may be a good political ploy, but fuck me if I will support it. |
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X201
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Post by X201 on Jan 12, 2023 14:53:19 GMT
He's done it to stop the Tories using it as a stick to beat Labour with.
I'm certain that he knows rejoining is the only sane decision, but the crap, tribal state of politics in Britain means that he can't actually campaign for what's good for the country.
The Tories will just invoke the "Posh man steal ar Brexit" knobheads, and we end up with another five years of the Tories trashing everything.
It needs the Tories to sort themselves out in opposition, wrestle the party back from the right wing anti Europe mob, find a path back to the centre ground and then stick their head above the parapet and mention that joining some of the EU institutions could be good for Britain.
Only then will it be safe for Labour to campaign vocally on it.
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Lizard
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Post by Lizard on Jan 13, 2023 2:29:39 GMT
Yep, Starmer needs to be somewhere on the Brexit spectrum otherwise he will be eviscerated by the Tories and right wing press and most likely lose the election. A sad but unavoidable reality of current British politics. It'll be a fair old while before moving back towards the EU is anything other than ballot box poison.
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malek86
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Post by malek86 on Jan 13, 2023 11:15:40 GMT
Gotta wonder though, I don't know much about UK politics, but hasn't public opinion on Brexit swayed over time? Pretty sure most people now think it was a bad idea, even some Brexiters. You'd think politicians who want votes would look at that and reconsider their support of it.
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Post by TheSaint on Jan 13, 2023 11:18:51 GMT
Generally, people that think like that are already going to vote Labour.
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Vandelay
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Post by Vandelay on Jan 13, 2023 11:27:40 GMT
There is plenty of polling coming out suggesting that people aren't happy about Brexit. However, I would be weary about making the jump from that to lots of people wanting to reverse it. When you look at the actual questions in these polls, it normally is asking along the lines of how well is Brexit going. Even asking the question whether you would have voted differently if you knew what you knew now does mean people want back in, as there are still plenty of people who think we voted for it and have to stick with it.
Even if you were to take the results of the polling at face value and take it to mean that the majority of people want to return tomorrow, there are still 30-40% of people that are burying their heads and waiting for their unicorns. With our voting system, if you made the next election all about Brexit and made that group fear Brexit being reversed, that would have a massive impact on the result.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2023 11:31:33 GMT
But you don't need to be all "fuck Europe, yay brexit! No single market" Which starmer is doing. It is deliberately antagonistic.
Why not. "We respect Brexit, so let's look at integration where it would be beneficial and keep sovereignty where appropriate. So we won't seek to break red lines but we will see to engage on the beneficial areas."
Means the same thing, but is less jingoistic.
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dogbot
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Post by dogbot on Jan 13, 2023 11:37:11 GMT
At the moment, he's not making manifesto pledges, just giving soundbites. Specific answers to specific questions whilst trying (imo) to avoid making everything about Brexit yet again.
Additionally, he seems to be upsetting the "Lexit" nutters greatly, which is nice.
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X201
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Post by X201 on Jan 13, 2023 12:15:00 GMT
But you don't need to be all "fuck Europe, yay brexit! No single market" Which starmer is doing. It is deliberately antagonistic. Why not. "We respect Brexit, so let's look at integration where it would be beneficial and keep sovereignty where appropriate. So we won't seek to break red lines but we will see to engage on the beneficial areas." Means the same thing, but is less jingoistic. But to vast swathes of the public that still means "Rejoin Europe!!! Man steal ar Brexit!!!"
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mcmonkeyplc
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Post by mcmonkeyplc on Jan 13, 2023 12:23:24 GMT
All he needs to say is make Brexit work for Britain.
It's as vague as Brexit is Brexit bullshit and could also mean literally anything.
He can't say reverse Brexit cause there are still plenty of fucking idiots in this country that think it's awesome just not done right.
It doesn't matter what all these polls say that people regret it now. I'd bet you money it's just like shy Tory. People just don't want to admit their stupid.
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sport✅
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Post by sport✅ on Jan 13, 2023 12:31:04 GMT
He needs to fight fire with fire.
Brexit is no longer the will of the people - it is now Brentry!
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nexus6
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Post by nexus6 on Jan 13, 2023 14:46:12 GMT
All he needs to say is make Brexit work for Britain. It's as vague as Brexit is Brexit bullshit and could also mean literally anything. He can't say reverse Brexit cause there are still plenty of fucking retards in this country that think it's awesome just not done right. It doesn't matter what all these polls say that people regret it now. I'd bet you money it's just like shy Tory. People just don't want to admit their stupid. Still on the retard chat mcmonkey? |
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mcmonkeyplc
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Post by mcmonkeyplc on Jan 13, 2023 14:56:39 GMT
Sorry, I get angry about this topic.
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Post by Whizzo on Jan 13, 2023 15:10:58 GMT
Well stupid things that are obviously stupid are something to get angry about.
The Emporer's New Brexit deal is as insubstantial as the original no matter who is proposing it.
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nexus6
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Post by nexus6 on Jan 13, 2023 15:13:16 GMT
Sorry, I get angry about this topic. That's fine. Just use a different word yeah? |
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Post by Dougs on Jan 13, 2023 15:56:08 GMT
Yeah, do better monkey. We were all children of the 80s where the word was bandied about with abandon, but things have moved on and we're grown ups. In theory.
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Post by Whizzo on Jan 13, 2023 16:05:13 GMT
Fuckwit confuses Yanks so that's always a bonus.
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Post by elstoof on Jan 20, 2023 13:24:10 GMT
Just had our kids passports renewed so they’ve got the new brexit specials. They’re a bit shit really, one of the pages is like a hard plastic driving licence so you’ve got the bendy paper pages then this one hard thing bunged in there.l and I’m sure it’ll start pulling away after I’ve sat on one a few times. We used to be a real country
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hedben
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Post by hedben on Jan 20, 2023 13:27:36 GMT
At least Gove probably likes it, I imagine the hard plastic comes in handy in an age where credit cards are being replaced by Apple Pay and the like
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Post by Jambowayoh on Jan 20, 2023 13:30:32 GMT
Just had our kids passports renewed so they’ve got the new brexit specials. They’re a bit shit really, one of the pages is like a hard plastic driving licence so you’ve got the bendy paper pages then this one hard thing bunged in there.l and I’m sure it’ll start pulling away after I’ve sat on one a few times. We used to be a real country The hard page is probably an emergency makeshift splint to keep up the erections of all the farts trying to get a semi after finally getting their blue/black passport. |
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hedben
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Post by hedben on Jan 20, 2023 13:33:35 GMT
Is it for chopping up a line or propping up a semi- who can say?
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Post by elstoof on Jan 20, 2023 13:53:18 GMT
It’s basically impossible to flick through the pages looking for an empty space with in there, just a really unpleasant thing to hold even when you disregard the reason it exists
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Post by Reviewer on Jan 20, 2023 14:10:33 GMT
Didn’t they have a hard page a while ago, like 10 years ago? Not sure if I’m misremembering.
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dogbot
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Post by dogbot on Jan 20, 2023 14:11:58 GMT
Both of my last red EU ones (I had two because I had entry stamps for countries that won't let you in if you have them, so had a dupe) had the hard plastic page. Issued in 2010 (and the duplicate in 2015).
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Post by Reviewer on Jan 20, 2023 14:14:21 GMT
My current one has a page that’s hard but floppy.
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Post by elstoof on Jan 20, 2023 14:26:57 GMT
My 2020 passport has no hard pages, no previous ones did and my kids 2018 ones didn’t either. Shenanigans at Petty France
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Post by Dougs on Jan 20, 2023 14:30:45 GMT
This conversation is some of our best work. Well done all.
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