Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2021 14:18:41 GMT
You're definitely remembering it incorrectly.
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Post by Aunt Alison on Dec 18, 2021 15:12:57 GMT
Would you say you weep when you remember Zion?
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anephric
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Post by anephric on Dec 18, 2021 15:22:59 GMT
Ahh, I like Captain Yoshi. That's the only good bit in Revolutions!
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Blue_Mike
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Meet Hanako At Embers
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Post by Blue_Mike on Dec 19, 2021 1:31:59 GMT
IGN Livestream of US Premiere:
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Post by Bill in the rain on Dec 19, 2021 3:36:16 GMT
Wasn't the fight to save zion a tense action scene last stand, that kept getting interrupted to go over to whatever boring fight neo was having with smith again, or whatever pointlessly complex faux-philosophical plot point they were trying to introduce?
That's how I remember it.
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Post by 😎 on Dec 19, 2021 3:37:34 GMT
Yeah, it cut away a bunch of times for Neo and Trinity’s flight to the machine city, and gave us the cringeworth scene where they fly above the clouds and see SUNSHINE AND RAINBOWS
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Post by baihu1983 on Dec 19, 2021 12:13:17 GMT
She also had one of the longest deaths ever filed
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Blue_Mike
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Post by Blue_Mike on Dec 19, 2021 13:29:12 GMT
Wait, didn't Smith transform into a giant Mecha-Smith at the end?
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Post by 😎 on Dec 19, 2021 16:45:40 GMT
That was in the Path of Neo game.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2021 16:52:06 GMT
They did do some wacky Dragon Ball Z fight at the end though. And that was AFTER the Mechwarrior battle.
Matrix 3 was some bullshit.
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nexus6
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Post by nexus6 on Dec 19, 2021 17:09:01 GMT
The pixelated pavement effect at the end of the third was great. And I didn’t mind it as a film as much as the second one.
The problem with films like this as I see it:
A sci-if or other high concept type of film is most interesting when explaining the set-up. Many films do this for the first third and then often falter in the finale.
The Matrix, the whole film was explaining itself so it was all good. The second and third films were the extended 2nd and 3rd acts that didn’t have the legs to see them over the line.
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Post by baihu1983 on Dec 19, 2021 17:26:40 GMT
That was in the Path of Neo game. Needs a remake |
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MolarAm🔵
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Post by MolarAm🔵 on Dec 19, 2021 22:27:53 GMT
I think the Wachowskis sometimes needed a producer to tell them "hey guys (or gals now), maybe tone it down a little eh". The first Matrix was so successful that it feels like they were given free reign over the next two, and things got messy. Like it's cool that they're sex positive and all, but I personally could have done without the Zion orgy (yeah I know it was a dance party, but c'mon). Or the philosophy lectures.
That being said, I've often loved it when they go Full Wachowski (Speed Racer and Sense8 come to mind), so maybe I like them being complete wild cards.
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Lukus
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Post by Lukus on Dec 19, 2021 22:29:02 GMT
You want to remove philosophy from the Matrix?
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MolarAm🔵
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Post by MolarAm🔵 on Dec 19, 2021 22:34:07 GMT
It was fine in the first one. But it was more in the background, and the second film brought it into the foreground, bringing the plot to a screeching halt for a five minute cut scene. It didn't work as well.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2021 22:39:25 GMT
There was a lot in the first one too. That's why I didn't like it as much when I rewatched it a month or two ago. When I was a teen, it was cool and it made me feel smart. As a 30 year old, it's just a lot of psychobabble nonsense.
That's why I partly feel Resurrections is doomed to fail in my personal eyes (not speaking for anyone else's opinion). If they lean too hard into the metaphysical philosophy, it can come off pretentious and dull. If they don't lean into it as much, it can end up feeling not as good as the previous films.
For better or worse, nonsense transhumanist philosophy is a core element of The Matrix's DNA.
Unless they just went full on sci-fi kung fu Jesus in this one.
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Post by elstoof on Dec 19, 2021 22:43:08 GMT
The first one was almost entirely Beaudrillard’s Simulcra just with added kung fu, philosophy was hardly a mere background element
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Post by elstoof on Dec 19, 2021 22:49:21 GMT
I’d say the sequels were less philosophical if anything. They ran out of source material as made a straight up sci fi romp with a few cod-philosophy monologues thrown in
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Post by stixxuk on Dec 19, 2021 23:04:55 GMT
Rewatched the whole trilogy recently. 2 and 3 weren't as bad as I remembered but definitely not a patch on the first one.
It was way closer to reality and just grittier and cooler. And had a far far better soundtrack.
Sequels were fine and actually made more sense than I'd remembered (and to be fair I pretty much couldn't remember the plots of those at all, don't think I've seen them since they were in the cinema).
Still not sure how Neo gets the ability to use matrix powers in the real world? Did he have a wi-fi implant that got activated or something?
Looking forward to the new one but expectations aren't high 😁
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MolarAm🔵
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Post by MolarAm🔵 on Dec 19, 2021 23:19:05 GMT
It wasn't really about the films having philosophy or not, more about how the philosophy was presented and integrated. For me, the philosophy in the first one felt like it was in service to helping tell the story. And it felt more out of place in the second. But whatever, people disagree, that's ok. I still think the Wachowskis maybe needed someone to tell them no at some point.  |
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geefe
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Post by geefe on Dec 20, 2021 0:36:02 GMT
The philosophy is fine in the first. It mostly poses questions and lets the audience respond to them.
If you left the Matrix, would you go back in?
Is being human/ alive a physical experience or what you perceive?
Is the AI actually trying to make things good for us?
Are we doomed to create something that wipes us out?
I wouldn't say they're huge questions but there's enough mystery and intrigue in a mega blockbuster that's worth exploring.
The sequels definitely should have been pared down and focused on that angle of asking the audience questions that they interpret. You can keep the rogue programs and such but keep it simple, to a few questions.
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Post by Bill in the rain on Dec 20, 2021 1:02:42 GMT
The main problem was that the end of Matrix 1 set up neo as basically god, and then they had to work out some way to reign that in or counter it. It was the old superman problem.
The other problems, other than the obvious ones of unrestrained excess and pacing, were mainly that they explained everything in hugely over-complicated ways. I think it actually all does kinda make sense, but good grief they make it hard to parse at times.
Matrix one kept its philosophical questions pretty short and clear and to the point. They might not always have had a clear answer, but at least you could understand the question.
PS/ After watching several trailers, I jsut read an article and only then realized that the blue haired girl is Jessica Henwick! (the good one from outta Iron Fist).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2021 9:36:06 GMT
The sequels didn't really need to exist at all.
I loved the open end to the first one. Made you leave the cinema imagining all the things that could happen.
Turns out that bad CGI fights and underground orgies is what happened. That I did not need to see.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2021 9:37:09 GMT
Having said that I like the premise to this new one. It seems to fit given the big gap in movies.
Going to see it Wednesday night and excited.
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Post by baihu1983 on Dec 20, 2021 10:18:53 GMT
Apart from the Zion stuff and how bad the giant Smith fight looked at times I really enjoyed Reloaded.
Problem was they filmed them back to back so Revolutions was stuck with being 85% real world which isn't what people wanted.
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Post by Bill in the rain on Dec 20, 2021 10:44:51 GMT
I seem to remember that I thought Reloaded was the one that was rather a waste of space... if you cut the highway fight out of that one, and put it into Revolutions, you'd be fine.
The Architect chat is the other big mistake. If they'd made that more 'there is no spoon' instead of 'afoihdsaoifnsdo ef dslnfafoi s fosidnfosd jsfd ' it'd have helped a lot.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Dec 20, 2021 11:05:15 GMT
I've really warmed to them over the years. I thought two was ok and three was rubbish when they first came out but I really do enjoy all three now. Obviously, one is a standalone triumph but the others do round out the story.
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Solid-SCB-
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Post by Solid-SCB- on Dec 20, 2021 11:18:50 GMT
I love the lot of it unashamedly, including the Animatrix and that Enter the Matrix game they did.
Oh, and Path of Neo. Rejigged ending and all.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2021 11:28:21 GMT
Animatrix is genuinely good if you ask me.
I love it if they did another one on the back of this new film.
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Solid-SCB-
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Post by Solid-SCB- on Dec 20, 2021 11:36:05 GMT
I watched them far more times than I care to remember. Thought they did a really good job of supplementing Reloaded/Revolutions.
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