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Post by Bill in the rain on Jan 27, 2023 14:31:16 GMT
...I didn't even notice they switched out George McFly's, though it has been a long time since I saw BTTF II. To be honest I hadn't even noticed they switched out Red Skull either so I might not be the best judge... I have some potentially upsetting news about James Bond.
You may want to sit down.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2023 14:32:50 GMT
...I didn't even notice they switched out George McFly's, though it has been a long time since I saw BTTF II. To be honest I hadn't even noticed they switched out Red Skull either so I might not be the best judge... This. I thought that was Hugo Weaving.
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Post by britesparc on Jan 27, 2023 14:36:23 GMT
...I didn't even notice they switched out George McFly's, though it has been a long time since I saw BTTF II. To be honest I hadn't even noticed they switched out Red Skull either so I might not be the best judge... Which, to be fair, is exatly why Glover sued, because unless you were following film press at the time you probably thought it was the same bloke as they literally had him made up like Glover, try to do Glover's voice, and deliberately kept him in the background for most of the scene so you couldn't tell it was a different guy. And I'd say the same is true for the Red Skull, to a certain extent: unless you'd read Hugo Weaving bitching about making The First Avenger, you'd presumably not know it wasn't the same guy in the makeup in Infinity War. Now, like I said, I do think there's a difference, because Weaving didn't originate the character the way Glover did, but with precedent having been set, I agree it possible that an actor might be inclined to sue in these circumstances, but I think that would be an overreaction, probably not get anywhere, and I don't think Weaving was ever that arsed. Edited to add: knowing all this shit about the making of the BTTF trilogy, and Glover's thoughts on the matter (which he still seems a little bit pissed off about), it's interesting watching the BTTF musical, where almost all the actors are doing very mannered impressions of the film's cast, to the extent of certain line readings sounding almost identical. And when I saw it in Manchester a couple of years ago, the bloke playing George looked, sounded, and acted exactly like Glover. I keep waiting for the second lawsuit to drop...
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Post by dfunked on Jan 27, 2023 14:39:43 GMT
I finished watching everything up to endgame recently and yeah, didn't realise it wasn't Weaving either. Surprised he didn't get some kind of compensation for that, but I guess Disney would've had that well covered legally.
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Post by Bill in the rain on Jan 27, 2023 14:42:01 GMT
Did Marty's girlfriend sue as well?
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Snake
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Post by Snake on Jan 27, 2023 14:52:40 GMT
I do now wonder if Red Skull's role would've been bigger if Weaving had remained attached. Also I'm not sure why they bothered having the character back at all when Weaving didn't return, it's like two minutes of screen time in two 3 hour movies, if that. I don't remember there being a reason for him being the guardian of the Pit Of Doom. Explained in some of the comics I assume?
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Post by 😎 on Jan 27, 2023 14:54:55 GMT
So basically nick’s post was fine and aubergine was doing an bad acckkshhuuaally post
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Jan 27, 2023 14:57:44 GMT
Dangling plot thread, I assume. Unusally, he just kind of bifrosts out of there rather than being killed outright so there was always speculation over when he would return.
Maybe thats why they start definitively killing off the bad guys.
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aubergine
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Post by aubergine on Jan 28, 2023 1:00:24 GMT
Without even googling: Crispin Glover sued the makers of BTTF for literally this exact thing when they had George McFly appear upside down in BTTF2 and got a substantial settlement. Good point. In that instance, the studio put prosthetics on another actor to make him look like Crispin Glover and Glover successfully sued. In this case, Marvel put prosthetics on Hugo Weaving to make him look like Red Skull, and Weaving put on a voice to sound German. He would not have been compensated directly for that. This is a good read about the BTTF 2 kerfuffle for anyone interested: www.ranker.com/list/crispin-glover-back-to-the-future-2-lawsuit/mike-mcgranaghan
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Lizard
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Post by Lizard on Jan 28, 2023 7:21:06 GMT
Nick vs Aubergine is the Batman vs Superman we deserve.
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kal
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Post by kal on Jan 28, 2023 8:20:45 GMT
They’re exactly the same thing. In both cases different actors were made to look and sound like the original actor’s take on that character. In both cases the intent was to trick audiences into thinking they’re played by the original actor (successfully as seen in this thread).
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Jan 28, 2023 10:08:12 GMT
Good point. In that instance, the studio put prosthetics on another actor to make him look like Crispin Glover and Glover successfully sued. In this case, Marvel put prosthetics on Hugo Weaving to make him look like Red Skull, and Weaving put on a voice to sound German. He would not have been compensated directly for that. They put prosthetics on him and got him to do a German accent, so he looked like Hugo Weaving in makeup and sounded like Hugo Weaving doing a German accent. They then put prosthetics/cgi on someone else to make them look like Hugo Weaving in makeup and got them to do an impression of Hugo Weaving doing a German accent. The new guy wasn’t just ‘the red skull’ he was ‘Hugo Weavings The Red Skull’. I know you’re now pretending you don’t understand this to save face but, come one, man.
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Post by Happenstance on Jan 28, 2023 10:13:21 GMT
I think the difference here between Back to the Future and Avengers is the Red Skull was a pre-existing character that Weaving was made up to look and sound like so any replacement would also be made to look like that.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Jan 28, 2023 10:19:12 GMT
Holy shit
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MolarAm🔵
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Jan 28, 2023 10:20:41 GMT
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Post by MolarAm🔵 on Jan 28, 2023 10:20:41 GMT
Someone is wrong on the internet!
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Jan 28, 2023 11:33:02 GMT
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Post by Saul1138 on Jan 28, 2023 11:33:02 GMT
So, that Batman eh?
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Post by baihu1983 on Jan 28, 2023 11:55:44 GMT
Hopefully the sequel tells us what happened to Bruce's parents.
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Post by Whizzo on Jan 28, 2023 12:07:18 GMT
Hopefully the sequel tells us what happened to Bruce's parents. Teen Titans Go! To the Movies has the definitive version of that, once they fix their time travelling mistake (no Crispin Glover in it either).
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Jan 28, 2023 12:13:37 GMT
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Post by Jambowayoh on Jan 28, 2023 12:13:37 GMT
I think the difference here between Back to the Future and Avengers is the Red Skull was a pre-existing character that Weaving was made up to look and sound like so any replacement would also be made to look like that. I don't know about that, the voice was clearly intended to ape Weaving's so much so that I thought it was the same actor. I don't think there's a set voice for the character other than what Weaving initially brought to the role. It was imo 100% intentional.
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Post by baihu1983 on Jan 28, 2023 12:15:19 GMT
Hopefully the sequel tells us what happened to Bruce's parents. Teen Titans Go! To the Movies has the definitive version of that, once they fix their time travelling mistake (no Crispin Glover in it either).
Underrated film.
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Post by Whizzo on Jan 28, 2023 12:17:12 GMT
The final line in the film is one of the greatest in cinema history.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Jan 28, 2023 12:30:08 GMT
I think the difference here between Back to the Future and Avengers is the Red Skull was a pre-existing character that Weaving was made up to look and sound like so any replacement would also be made to look like that. I don't know about that, the voice was clearly intended to ape Weaving's so much so that I thought it was the same actor. I don't think there's a set voice for the character other than what Weaving initially brought to the role. It was imo 100% intentional. Let’s put it this way: There have been three hulk actors in the last 20 years. When Bruce Banner turns into the hulk, he doesn’t turn into a generic hulk, he turns into a hulk that looks like the actor with the actors voice. Every time. If, for example, it was just the cgi hulk who turned up in She-Hulk but they got some random to do the mocap and do an impression of Mark Gruffalo because Marvel didn’t want to pay him, lawsuits would be had. ‘The hulk is a pre-existing character, so fuck him’ would not get them very far.
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Jan 28, 2023 12:34:40 GMT
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Post by Jambowayoh on Jan 28, 2023 12:34:40 GMT
Did Norton's Hulk look like him? I didn't really see that, all the others yeah, Ruffalo's especially.
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Jan 28, 2023 13:02:13 GMT
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Post by Reviewer on Jan 28, 2023 13:02:13 GMT
They could’ve easily chosen to make red skull look or sound a bit different, suggesting either there’s something in Weaving‘a contract to allow them to do that, they paid him off or he didn’t care.
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Jan 28, 2023 13:04:07 GMT
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Post by Reviewer on Jan 28, 2023 13:04:07 GMT
Did Norton's Hulk look like him? I didn't really see that, all the others yeah, Ruffalo's especially. A bit but not hugely obvious which is probably as much related to technology as the design choice and/or Norton’s head being a bit bland in hulk form. Lou Ferrigno looked the most like his own Hulk.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Jan 28, 2023 13:35:45 GMT
It did a bit but there did seem like a conscious decision to make basically *everything* more generic in that movie. It’s probably why they swung right back the other way with the next one.
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Post by Bill in the rain on Jan 28, 2023 13:45:03 GMT
The final line in the film is one of the greatest in cinema history. Oh the yes indeed!
Dope song too.
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aubergine
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Post by aubergine on Jan 28, 2023 14:17:53 GMT
Good point. In that instance, the studio put prosthetics on another actor to make him look like Crispin Glover and Glover successfully sued. In this case, Marvel put prosthetics on Hugo Weaving to make him look like Red Skull, and Weaving put on a voice to sound German. He would not have been compensated directly for that. They put prosthetics on him and got him to do a German accent, so he looked like Hugo Weaving in makeup and sounded like Hugo Weaving doing a German accent. They then put prosthetics/cgi on someone else to make them look like Hugo Weaving in makeup and got them to do an impression of Hugo Weaving doing a German accent. The new guy wasn’t just ‘the red skull’ he was ‘Hugo Weavings The Red Skull’. I know you’re now pretending you don’t understand this to save face but, come one, man. Oh, I totally understand what you’re saying now, especially in light of the Crispin Glover example, and it would be interesting to see whether your take on it would stand up in court (were Weaving to sue as Glover did) or whether it would be thrown out for being apples and oranges fucking nonsense. We can only be sure that we’ll never truly know the answer.
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Post by britesparc on Jan 28, 2023 14:57:47 GMT
I think the difference with the Hulk example is, especially in Ruffalo's case, it's performance capture so that's literally his likeness (I might be wrong but I think Ruffalo is the first actor to be mo-capped as the Hulk). It'd be like if in Avatar 3 they cast someone else as Jake Sooly but the big blue cat-man still looked exactly like Sam Worthington.
And I think we will actually see a lawsuit along these lines in the next decade, where a studio thinks they own the rights to an actor's likeness and gets someone else to impersonate them via CGI.
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Bongo Heracles
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Jan 28, 2023 15:07:20 GMT
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Jan 28, 2023 15:07:20 GMT
it would be interesting to see whether your take on it would stand up in court (were Weaving to sue as Glover did) or whether it would be thrown out for being apples and oranges fucking nonsense. It would likely depend on whether their legal team repeatedly changed the definition of an ‘apple’ every time they responded to something.
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