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DC Films
Dec 9, 2022 11:25:31 GMT
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Post by Vandelay on Dec 9, 2022 11:25:31 GMT
I'm sure those online that say they hated it did actually hate it. But, the narrative around the film is that it was shit. Again, critically it wasn't considered shit and general tone at release was mostly positiveish. I'm certain if you polled those that saw it you would get fairly middling scores, with it being considered a 3-star film. If you believed the internet, you would think it was one of the worst films ever made. It is your standard Internet of everything needing to either be best thing ever or worst thing ever. I believe that even critics, even those such as Kermode said that COVID was a key reason why they looked it a somewhat favourably as in it seemed quite positive in a very depressing situation that everyone was going through. Out of that bubble it clearly pales compared to the first one. Maybe. I only watched it at that time, so I was in that bubble too (I recall at the time, as ever, being much in agreement with Kermode's assessment). And I agree, the first is much better. I just disagree with the way it is used as synonym with really shit. There are definitely worse films within that genre and it certainly was nowhere near as bad as a Justice League or Man of Steel. Patty Jenkins became a bit of a hate figure afterwards as well (see reaction to Rogue Squadron announcement) and I don't think it was so bad that her future projects should be tarred. |
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MolarAm🔵
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DC Films
Dec 9, 2022 11:26:16 GMT
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Post by MolarAm🔵 on Dec 9, 2022 11:26:16 GMT
Routh is great in the Arrowverse shows, Legends of Tomorrow in particular. He always looked like he was having a lot of fun with those parts.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2022 11:29:40 GMT
He looks a bit serial killery.
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Post by Bill in the rain on Dec 9, 2022 11:30:29 GMT
Superman Returns was better than anything the DCU has done with superman. I rather liked it. Routh was probably a bit young and inexperienced, but he did a decent enough job. Reminds me that I should watch that one with the kids.., most of the charm of Superman 1 and 2, but with updated effects.
The movie seems to have done an Avatar and been totally forgotten.
I remember watching it around the same time as Batman Begins and enjoying both about equally. At the time I was hoping for a crossover along the likes of Dark Knight Returns (though again Routh was too young) ... unfortunately later I got what I wanted with Batman Vs Superman. Be careful what you wish for...
As I said, Cavil seems like a nice enough guy, and it's probably not his fault. But all the 'fans' coming out demanding that he be kept feels like that thing where people now thing the Prequel Trilogy were actually good. |
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kal
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Post by kal on Dec 9, 2022 11:40:38 GMT
As a love letter to the Donner films I have a soft spot for SR, but it’s an extremely strange film that doesn’t stand on its own two feet, which is why it’s largely forgotten. It’s not a bad film and probably better than MoS, but it’s pretty niche. Also Singer and Spacey are severe wronguns which makes it a little u comfortable.
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DC Films
Dec 9, 2022 12:06:52 GMT
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Post by Jambowayoh on Dec 9, 2022 12:06:52 GMT
Superman Returns was for me too slavishly wedded to the Donner films and it felt like Routh was doing an impression of Reeves rather than bringing his own self to the role, although that's on Singer. It was a very strange movie overall, the whole son element just made it even stranger.
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Derblington
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Post by Derblington on Dec 9, 2022 12:25:51 GMT
Routh's version of Superman is Reeve's version? Yeah, he wasn't awful but he was literally playing directly off of the best one to date.
edit: apparently I hadn't refreshed the thread in a while.
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Post by Happenstance on Dec 9, 2022 12:54:07 GMT
The plane rescue in Superman Returns is probably still my favourite moment in any Superman movie.
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Post by Bill in the rain on Dec 9, 2022 13:04:02 GMT
Cos my memory is rubbish, what's so strange about Superman Returns?
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Dec 9, 2022 13:15:25 GMT
Its just weird. The opening is actually pretty stellar (the titles and the above scene) but then you get nonsense about his kid, stalking Lois and another real estate plot. Its couched as a spiritual sequel to the Reeve movies but doesnt fully commit to it, so its in this weird no mans land.
Its probably the Superman movie I would be least likely to watch if I ever saw it while flicking about.
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DC Films
Dec 9, 2022 13:27:06 GMT
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Post by Jambowayoh on Dec 9, 2022 13:27:06 GMT
+1 for what Nick said but for me I found it to be extremely glacial and for a film about Superman the lead feels very disconnected from the film.
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aubergine
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Post by aubergine on Dec 9, 2022 15:33:23 GMT
I’ve never been able to conceive of anyone but Christopher Reeve as Superman, he somehow took the single worst comic book character and made it perfection. But he was also only as good as the films, and only the first two were any good. Cavill surprised me as Geralt and was good in Mission Impossible, but I can’t tell you if his Superman is any good because those films aren’t any good.
Maybe when Gunn and his mate are at DC things will change, because at the moment I think the only company who could make a Superman with the tone of Reeves’ first two is Marvel.
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kal
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Post by kal on Dec 9, 2022 15:57:46 GMT
…the single worst comic book character... This will never not trigger me  Even if you don’t like Supes, you’ve surely got to acknowledge that being the for archetype every single superhero ever is a pretty significant status. That, and enduring and remaining one of the most iconic and loved characters around for nearly 100 years, makes statements like this just seem a bit ridiculous. To me anyway. |
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Derblington
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Post by Derblington on Dec 9, 2022 16:03:45 GMT
I was waiting for your response to that  I think the vast majority of people that have that view have rarely, if ever, read a superman comic, let alone any of the ones that deal with the more complex parts of his character. |
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geefe
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Post by geefe on Dec 9, 2022 16:05:39 GMT
Complex like whether he spins round in a phonebox to change clothes or in a revolving door?
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DC Films
Dec 9, 2022 16:12:08 GMT
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Post by Jambowayoh on Dec 9, 2022 16:12:08 GMT
I was waiting for your response to that I think the vast majority of people that have that view have rarely, if ever, read a superman comic, let alone any of the ones that deal with the more complex parts of his character. Well I mean the comics are one thing and most people aren't going to read them, Snyder's Superman tried to get at Tue more complex parts of the character but was hampered by the actual films he made not being very good. Reeves did have some complexity to a degree but I guess those films were more about the wonder of it all than anything else. |
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kal
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Post by kal on Dec 9, 2022 16:22:20 GMT
I can acknowledge it’s a character that’s not particularly easy to write well for. Few manage it even in the comics.
I also recognise that what’s appealing about him drifts in and out of fashion a bit. He seems to resonate most when the world is at its shittiest. Now is actually the perfect time for him to have another moment.
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DC Films
Dec 9, 2022 16:33:10 GMT
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Post by Reviewer on Dec 9, 2022 16:33:10 GMT
I’m not sure what complex parts of the character Snyder’s films tried to get to.
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Post by clemfandango on Dec 9, 2022 16:37:33 GMT
Is Superman still the most famous/popular Superhero? or has Spiderman overtaken him now?
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mcmonkeyplc
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Post by mcmonkeyplc on Dec 9, 2022 16:40:32 GMT
I never understood the popularity of Spiderman.
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kal
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Dec 9, 2022 16:43:46 GMT
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Post by kal on Dec 9, 2022 16:43:46 GMT
Spider-Man, Batman then Superman.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Dec 9, 2022 16:53:45 GMT
I’m not sure what complex parts of the character Snyder’s films tried to get to. It aint easy being Jesus |
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Snake
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Post by Snake on Dec 9, 2022 16:55:03 GMT
I never understood the popularity of Spiderman. I think because of all the most popular ones it's the one you (the viewer/reader) could become. No wealth or alien ancestry required, just a random spider biting you and the will to do good. |
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Post by Jambowayoh on Dec 9, 2022 16:58:25 GMT
I never understood the popularity of Spiderman. I think because of all the most popular ones it's the one you (the viewer/reader) could become. No wealth or alien ancestry required, just a random spider biting you and the will to do good. Yes, Spiderman is the everyman character although he does have the WORST luck ever. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2022 17:05:31 GMT
Which is why he’s the everyman!
Batman has no powers, except UNLIMITED WEALTH.
Spidey’s trying to care for his old aunt, be a good partner to MJ or Gwen (depending on the timeline), go to school (dependent on timeline), work his job, all while also stopping villains in NYC and/or space.
How can anyone not like Spider-Man?
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DC Films
Dec 9, 2022 18:13:55 GMT
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Post by Jambowayoh on Dec 9, 2022 18:13:55 GMT
Which is why he’s the everyman! Batman has no powers, except UNLIMITED WEALTH. Spidey’s trying to care for his old aunt, be a good partner to MJ or Gwen (depending on the timeline), go to school (dependent on timeline), work his job, all while also stopping villains in NYC and/or space. How can anyone not like Spider-Man? I Marvel comics don't like Spider-Man seeing as they keep giving him some terrible artists and terrible writers. |
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sport✅
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Post by sport✅ on Dec 9, 2022 18:22:16 GMT
The plane rescue in Superman Returns is probably still my favourite moment in any Superman movie. For me, nothing tops the Clark vs Supes fight in the scrapyard in III. |
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Post by Reviewer on Dec 9, 2022 18:54:43 GMT
The plane rescue in Superman Returns is probably still my favourite moment in any Superman movie. For me, nothing tops the Clark vs Supes fight in the scrapyard in III. Not even Superman vs Nuclear Man? |
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DC Films
Dec 9, 2022 19:02:36 GMT
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Post by baihu1983 on Dec 9, 2022 19:02:36 GMT
Superman is hard to do. MOS got the action right in that no way a guy like him can be fighting aliens without causing serious damage.
But they got Clark completely wrong and I really hate how they killed Jonathan Kent.
Snyder can direct but should have little to 0 input on story and not be allowed to use slow mo(which added 20+ minutes to Justice League)
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DC Films
Dec 9, 2022 19:31:52 GMT
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Post by Jambowayoh on Dec 9, 2022 19:31:52 GMT
Superman is hard to do. MOS got the action right in that no way a guy like him can be fighting aliens without causing serious damage. But they got Clark completely wrong and I really hate how they killed Jonathan Kent. Snyder can direct but should have little to 0 input on story and not be allowed to use slow mo(which added 20+ minutes to Justice League) You mean you didn't enjoy the Amazon war cry music with slow mo every time Wonder Woman was on the screen in Justice League??? |
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