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Post by Bill in the rain on Nov 27, 2024 5:00:12 GMT
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rftp
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Post by rftp on Nov 27, 2024 7:39:20 GMT
We'll be needing some personnel to use the stuff we produce, too. Maybe we can get some Polish guys to man the airforce battle of Britain style Nigel got em all to go home. I mean, genuinely we're hilariously unprepared to take any action in serious defence of the country that might occur. Numbers have been falling steadily for decades and it is the absolute dregs who join up now because there's no career or future in it so why on earth would anyone with any other prospect risk it? Just badly paid, poorly trained canon fodder living in moldy accommodation. You might as well be a student, at least no ones shoots and very few people scream at you. Not sure how we ever sell that to future generations. If Russia does decide full on conventional warfare is the way (and if we appease Putin enough, he might), the UK military has little chance based on numbers alone. |
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Post by Bill in the rain on Nov 27, 2024 8:20:26 GMT
If Russia decides conventional warfare against the UK is the way, I'm not sure that our ground troops are going to be much of an issue (and Russia can't have that many left, and they're even more poorly trained and badly equipped cannon fodder).
The issue is going to be whether we can stop them bombing our cities into the ground, as that seems their preferred method of warfare.
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apollo
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Post by apollo on Nov 27, 2024 8:54:44 GMT
Lots of reports about drones over UK ships in germany and bases in the UK. Hopefully the UK government take these threats serious and not have a meeting about having a meeting then write a letter to putin to say how angry they are
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Post by jeepers on Nov 27, 2024 9:03:50 GMT
What would “taking it seriously” mean?
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dam
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Post by dam on Nov 27, 2024 10:09:59 GMT
This drone thing is a bit strange. Why can't they just take them down with anti-drone stuff? They use them in Ukraine. They've got multiple fighter jets and a tanker to refuel them flying around the base. Are they small drones launched locally? Surely it can't be that hard to track where they are coming from/going to.
So either they are resistant to counter measures, which is worrying, or they aren't trying because they don't want to reveal the counter measures they have in place?
Or clearly it's aliens.
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Post by JuniorFE on Nov 27, 2024 10:14:20 GMT
This drone thing is a bit strange. Why can't they just take them down with anti-drone stuff? They use them in Ukraine. They've got multiple fighter jets and a tanker to refuel them flying around the base. Are they small drones launched locally? Surely it can't be that hard to track where they are coming from/going to. So either they are resistant to counter measures, which is worrying, or they aren't trying because they don't want to reveal the counter measures they have in place? Or clearly it's aliens. |
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Post by Bill in the rain on Nov 27, 2024 10:28:41 GMT
This drone thing is a bit strange. Why can't they just take them down with anti-drone stuff? They use them in Ukraine. They've got multiple fighter jets and a tanker to refuel them flying around the base. Are they small drones launched locally? Surely it can't be that hard to track where they are coming from/going to. So either they are resistant to counter measures, which is worrying, or they aren't trying because they don't want to reveal the counter measures they have in place? Or clearly it's aliens. Small flying enemies are always the most hardest and most annoying to hit.  |
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rftp
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Post by rftp on Nov 27, 2024 10:40:53 GMT
If Russia decides conventional warfare against the UK is the way, I'm not sure that our ground troops are going to be much of an issue (and Russia can't have that many left, and they're even more poorly trained and badly equipped cannon fodder). The issue is going to be whether we can stop them bombing our cities into the ground, as that seems their preferred method of warfare. This came up because we were talking about the inevitable outcomes of appeasement and continuing to back down to Putin and I think that conventional warfare is absolutely a consideration in that event. I didn't specify "ground troops" and the term "conventional warfare" means "not biological, chemical or nuclear", rather than just ground based assaults. So, ground, sea and air conflict are all generally "conventional warfare". TLDR, it doesn't matter how we're expected to fight, if we're expected to fight, all of our forces are hugely undermanned and poorly equipped. But yay, our economic conscripts have really good training! So appeasement of Putin will be a bad idea and we don't have the military to fight him nor apparently the will to wake up and realise this might even be necessary when the Orange fuckwit begins tonguing the Pootie. |
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apollo
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Post by apollo on Nov 27, 2024 11:25:56 GMT
This drone thing is a bit strange. Why can't they just take them down with anti-drone stuff? They use them in Ukraine. They've got multiple fighter jets and a tanker to refuel them flying around the base. Are they small drones launched locally? Surely it can't be that hard to track where they are coming from/going to. So either they are resistant to counter measures, which is worrying, or they aren't trying because they don't want to reveal the counter measures they have in place?Or clearly it's aliens. I think this might be the reason but they must have some other way to shoot them down or something |
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Post by technoish on Nov 27, 2024 11:39:07 GMT
In the news reports they wouldn't comment on whether the drones were tackled or not. I'm guessing they were dealt with.
I think it's important to realise that we are pretty much in conflict with Russia right now. They are sabotaging undersea cables, factories (fires in UK and Germany) and deliveries (see that plane that went down this week?), not to mention their online disinformation and hacking campaigns.
Regardless, the russian invasion of Ukraine should make one thing clear, that conventional warfare is both the same and changing rapidly. Having tanks and troops on the ground is actually important, it's not all projecting force with advanced warplanes and carriers. But what is new is that it is all about drones and electronic warfare.... A couple cheap drones could take out your uber expensive f35 on the runway in England.... You can fly a hundred, or a thousand, cheap drones with a 20kg payload towards your target. The single patriot missile to shoot one of them down costs more than all of those drones together... We've seen nothing yet on this! China can probably put a million or two drones in the air no problem. Add existing AI and recognition tools and they can target all adult males in a city without needing any pilots.
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skalpadda
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Post by skalpadda on Nov 27, 2024 14:55:30 GMT
A couple cheap drones could take out your uber expensive f35 on the runway in England.... You can fly a hundred, or a thousand, cheap drones with a 20kg payload towards your target. The single patriot missile to shoot one of them down costs more than all of those drones together... We've seen nothing yet on this! China can probably put a million or two drones in the air no problem. Add existing AI and recognition tools and they can target all adult males in a city without needing any pilots. Stuff like the German Gepards and other relatively cheap AA have been making a comeback, and modern variants like Skynex have pretty serious anti-drone swarm capabilities (fires bursts of explosive ammo saturating a volume with tungsten projectiles - doesn't need direct hits). There are other systems, and more being developed. And anything Russia can do with drones, we can as well.
I've been on about this before, but a conventional war between Europe + the UK against Russia would not be an even fight. 3,5x the population, over 10x the GDP, massively larger industrial capacity, more active military personnel (that's with Russia on a semi-war footing, now spending 40% of their state budget on the military), more aircraft, much larger combined navies. Add that most of Europe is significantly rearming, has a technological advantage, capabilities that Russia doesn't have, and more friends and allies around the world.
China has nothing to gain from actively taking part in a war against Europe, and if they were to bankroll Russia with materiel the Russians would still run out of soldiers. If we imagine a proper world war, China would have problems much closer to home.
The UK would not face a ground invasion. Russians can't teleport and they haven't managed to make landings over a small stretch of the Black Sea in Ukraine. How on earth would they cross the North Sea?
None of this is saying not to take things seriously - it would still be a disaster for everyone involved, and there's a lot of shit Russia can do without starting an all-out war - but a lot of the doom-mongering and claims of a terminally weak Europe are wildly exaggerated.
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Post by technoish on Nov 27, 2024 16:24:00 GMT
It seems like Russia is actually weaker than it was at end of the Cold War...given they seem to even rely now in some cases on equipment from back then. While NATO has got more advanced. Also, Ukraine then was a major source of technology etc... and they are on the other side now, not to mention Poland, etc.
Yeah I didn't mean there weren't other anti drone options, sorry! I see I wasn't clear. I believe Ukrainians also have old school guns on back of trucks they drive around. And they've been showing off anti drone drones indeed.
Fundamentally Russia is a gangster state tho, so while Putin has backed himself into this particular corner, it's not clear we'd see a different kind of Russia once he's gone, whether pushed out of a window or through natural causes. But I think this is also why we should be supporting Ukraine totally, for all it's land mass. I don't think Russia will have capability to follow up with a land grab in another country, but they can rebuild.... And we will be here again in 5, 10 years.
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Post by Dreyzing on Nov 27, 2024 16:24:40 GMT
Yep. You can fit the whole of the UK’s armed forces (Army, Navy and Airforce) inside Wembley Stadium, with plenty of seats left over. This doesn't seem very tactically sound... |
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rftp
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Post by rftp on Nov 27, 2024 17:24:03 GMT
Kier had to do something with all the Taylor Swift tickets the Labour party had to give back.
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rftp
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Post by rftp on Nov 27, 2024 17:32:14 GMT
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apollo
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Post by apollo on Nov 27, 2024 17:59:44 GMT
Russian Ruble Collapses As Putin's Economy in Trouble
Sure trump will fuck up the value of the dollar from January for his master
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Post by simple on Nov 27, 2024 18:48:17 GMT
I know we enjoy the schadenfreude of the dildo of consequences but at what point do tariffs and trade war become the first dominos on the descent into global recession or worse?
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