sport✅
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Post by sport✅ on Dec 13, 2021 8:09:36 GMT
End of an era for Mercedes. Sad to see them behave like this.
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Post by peekconfusion on Dec 13, 2021 8:10:29 GMT
The claim that "any" does not mean the same as "all" in the sentence “any cars that have been lapped by the leader will be required to pass the cars on the lead lap and the safety car” is gibberish - it seems impossible to see how an independent lawyer could judge otherwise. It's the sort of argument a team that hadn't lawyered up would come up with. |
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sport✅
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Post by sport✅ on Dec 13, 2021 8:17:54 GMT
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Solid-SCB-
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Post by Solid-SCB- on Dec 13, 2021 8:35:05 GMT
Early pretender for Kimi's replacement in the paddock right there.
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Post by muddyfunster on Dec 13, 2021 8:39:59 GMT
The claim that "any" does not mean the same as "all" in the sentence “any cars that have been lapped by the leader will be required to pass the cars on the lead lap and the safety car” is gibberish - it seems impossible to see how an independent lawyer could judge otherwise. Exactly. Hypothetically, even if "any" could be considered synonymous with "some" rather than "all", "the following lap" can never be interpreted as "immediately". There's no room for ambiguity there, so when the last car that was allowed to unlap itself passed the safety car (lap 57) the SC should not have come in until the next one (lap 58). The stewards also don't get to randomly decide which clauses supersede others, that seemed like a desperate attempt to find something, anything, in the text they could hang the rejection on for the media so they could get out of there and go home. The FIA lawyers may find a stronger justification given more time but they will need to. |
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Solid-SCB-
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Post by Solid-SCB- on Dec 13, 2021 8:42:15 GMT
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Post by snackplissken on Dec 13, 2021 8:51:05 GMT
This season had me thinking that I should start watching F1 again... then it ends as a circus. Christ. I mean it wasn't just yesterday that was a farce. It's been all season with the rules being adapted to fit a narrative of making F1 appeal to a wider audience.. |
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Post by Singularity on Dec 13, 2021 8:57:23 GMT
Such a shame that such an amazing season finished in this way. I've never seen a sport throw it's own rulebook out the window mid-event. Whatever ends up happening with this championship, it's irredeemably tarnished.
As a fan who pays for Sky Sports just for F1, watches every single practice session, and has watched every single race for about thirty-five years (Christ, how has that happened?), if this is how things are going to be in the Netflix era, I'm done. And I'm 85% sure that's not just hyperbole.
Alright, 75%.
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Post by monkman5000 on Dec 13, 2021 9:01:59 GMT
WE'RE GOING CAR RACING
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Post by snackplissken on Dec 13, 2021 9:03:09 GMT
I don't feel like investing a whole lot of my time into F1, same for football when my club decided to chase the super league money. Just sort of jaded with actual sport. Probably why I invest more of my time into a fake sport wrestling ha... how upset can I be when it's not real.
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Solid-SCB-
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Post by Solid-SCB- on Dec 13, 2021 9:03:30 GMT
Michael Sassi
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Solid-SCB-
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Post by Solid-SCB- on Dec 13, 2021 9:06:42 GMT
I must have been "Definitely not watching this shit again" about 30 times at this point.
But it's like crack and you all know it. See you all next March.
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Post by Wizzard_Ook on Dec 13, 2021 9:08:10 GMT
I must have been "Definitely not watching this shit again" about 30 times at this point. But it's like crack and you all know it. See you all next March. Pretty much this. |
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Post by snackplissken on Dec 13, 2021 9:17:09 GMT
If McLaren start winning races every race.. I'll be back.. maybe.
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Post by TheSaint on Dec 13, 2021 9:22:42 GMT
It probably wasn't even the most fascial thing this season. Spa was an absolute joke.
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X201
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Post by X201 on Dec 13, 2021 9:22:57 GMT
The claim that "any" does not mean the same as "all" in the sentence “any cars that have been lapped by the leader will be required to pass the cars on the lead lap and the safety car” is gibberish - it seems impossible to see how an independent lawyer could judge otherwise. I was thinking the same. We’d be totally buggered if database queries around the world, when asked for ANY results that fit the criteria, only return some results. |
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Gruf
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Post by Gruf on Dec 13, 2021 9:30:03 GMT
I must have been "Definitely not watching this shit again" about 30 times at this point. But it's like crack and you all know it. See you all next March. It not been for the traditionalists, that's for sure But its been riveting to watch, certainly compared to the processional previous seasons All Liberty care about in the end. |
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Post by muddyfunster on Dec 13, 2021 9:41:25 GMT
I wonder if Mercedes can persuade any other teams to get involved. It's really bad when you consider there are more than two cars that are entitled to enjoy a fair race. Almost as if there are written safety car procedures specifically to ensure fairness for all competitors!
Sainz almost lost third and also had no opportunity to attack Max and Lewis because he still had two slower-lapped cars ahead that held him up, whereas Max had none. How is this justifiable, does a Ferrari in third not matter?
The five who were allowed to unlap themselves weren't given the same opportunity to go racing as they were following SC procedures catching the pack up the next lap. They actually lost out on a chance to improve their position in exchange for those on the lead lap getting theirs.
Ricciardo and Stroll who were a lap down but not ahead of Max lost a lap to the five cars ahead they were previously racing and were denied the opportunity to snatch the final point.
Broken down, what Masi did is truly ridiculous. I don't really understand how anyone with any sense of sporting fair play can think F1 should just 'move on' from this. It's patently seriously flawed and needs fixing.
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Post by Wizzard_Ook on Dec 13, 2021 9:44:33 GMT
It probably wasn't even the most fascial thing this season. Spa was an absolute joke. To be honest yesterday shambles have put things in perspective a little bit. So you got, yesterday. Spa. The Saudi track (safety and political issues). Ridiculous amount of races (which I admittedly love but it strains the the teams). Laisse faire and inconsistent stewarding Which leads to aggressive/playstation racing. No doubt that the Halo has saved lives in the last couple of years Drive to survive. the fia - team radio Its not great really and shows that Liberty Media value entertainment over F1 being a sport. |
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Post by muddyfunster on Dec 13, 2021 9:46:56 GMT
It probably wasn't even the most fascial thing this season. Spa was an absolute joke. To be honest yesterday shambles have put things in perspective a little bit. So you got, yesterday. Spa. The Saudi track (safety and political issues). Ridiculous amount of races (which I admittedly love but it strains the the teams). Laisse faire and inconsistent stewarding Which leads to aggressive/playstation racing. No doubt that the Halo has saved lives in the last couple of years Drive to survive. the fia - team radio Its not great really and shows that Liberty Media value entertainment over F1 being a sport. Yes agreed. Spa is still the worst thing I have ever seen by an F1 Race Director, but all the other things are why I've totally lost faith and am worried about the direction Liberty is taking it. |
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Post by Singularity on Dec 13, 2021 9:49:58 GMT
I don't feel like investing a whole lot of my time into F1, same for football when my club decided to chase the super league money. Just sort of jaded with actual sport. Probably why I invest more of my time into a fake sport wrestling ha... how upset can I be when it's not real. Are you me? |
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H-alphaFox
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Post by H-alphaFox on Dec 13, 2021 9:50:17 GMT
lol
That was brilliant.
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Solid-SCB-
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Post by Solid-SCB- on Dec 13, 2021 9:57:36 GMT
It's probably the most fundamentally flawed sport I could think of off the top of my head. Top to bottom, the nonsensical rules and regulations, the chance of something happening to the detriment of those'deserving', along with the ability to make coin toss decisions on the fly have always been a part of it and for better or worse, seemingly always will.
But something about it always keeps you coming back, regardless. I don't think anything was lost yesterday that wasn't already absent from the sport to begin with.
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Post by snackplissken on Dec 13, 2021 10:05:02 GMT
I don't feel like investing a whole lot of my time into F1, same for football when my club decided to chase the super league money. Just sort of jaded with actual sport. Probably why I invest more of my time into a fake sport wrestling ha... how upset can I be when it's not real. Are you me? Long lost brother.. is it really you? |
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Solid-SCB-
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Post by Solid-SCB- on Dec 13, 2021 10:10:38 GMT
I wouldn't even know where to start with watching wrestling these days but the idea of a ladder match between Horner and Toto for the world championship screams money to me.
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Solid-SCB-
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Post by Solid-SCB- on Dec 13, 2021 10:12:14 GMT
Then again, Toto is a bit of a unit. Maybe let Geri be at ringside for Christian so she can slide him a foreign object when the referee has been knocked out by a fly landing on him.
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Lizard
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Post by Lizard on Dec 13, 2021 10:16:07 GMT
Masi as special referee.
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Solid-SCB-
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Post by Solid-SCB- on Dec 13, 2021 10:17:48 GMT
"NO MICHAEL. NO, NO, THIS IS NOT RIGHT"
"This is a ladder match Toto, we went wrestling"
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111
New Member
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Post by 111 on Dec 13, 2021 10:30:41 GMT
I wonder if Mercedes can persuade any other teams to get involved. It's really bad when you consider there are more than two cars that are entitled to enjoy a fair race. Almost as if there are written safety car procedures specifically to ensure fairness for all competitors! Sainz almost lost third and also had no opportunity to attack Max and Lewis because he still had two slower-lapped cars ahead that held him up, whereas Max had none. How is this justifiable, does a Ferrari in third not matter? The five who were allowed to unlap themselves weren't given the same opportunity to go racing as they were following SC procedures catching the pack up the next lap. They actually lost out on a chance to improve their position in exchange for those on the lead lap getting theirs. Ricciardo and Stroll who were a lap down but not ahead of Max lost a lap to the five cars ahead they were previously racing and were denied the opportunity to snatch the final point. Broken down, what Masi did is truly ridiculous. I don't really understand how anyone with any sense of sporting fair play can think F1 should just 'move on' from this. It's patently seriously flawed and needs fixing. *Even* if you pretend only the two championship contenders are what matters, which is clearly not how the rules work, it's pretty eye-opening to have a situation where the lapped cars *ahead* of Verstappen were removed, but the ones *behind* him were left in place.
You've got a situation where if Hamilton makes a mistake in turn 1 and loses a second he drops a place, but if Max does the same thing he doesn't. |
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Post by muddyfunster on Dec 13, 2021 10:52:39 GMT
I wonder if Mercedes can persuade any other teams to get involved. It's really bad when you consider there are more than two cars that are entitled to enjoy a fair race. Almost as if there are written safety car procedures specifically to ensure fairness for all competitors! Sainz almost lost third and also had no opportunity to attack Max and Lewis because he still had two slower-lapped cars ahead that held him up, whereas Max had none. How is this justifiable, does a Ferrari in third not matter? The five who were allowed to unlap themselves weren't given the same opportunity to go racing as they were following SC procedures catching the pack up the next lap. They actually lost out on a chance to improve their position in exchange for those on the lead lap getting theirs. Ricciardo and Stroll who were a lap down but not ahead of Max lost a lap to the five cars ahead they were previously racing and were denied the opportunity to snatch the final point. Broken down, what Masi did is truly ridiculous. I don't really understand how anyone with any sense of sporting fair play can think F1 should just 'move on' from this. It's patently seriously flawed and needs fixing. *Even* if you pretend only the two championship contenders are what matters, which is clearly not how the rules work, it's pretty eye-opening to have a situation where the lapped cars *ahead* of Verstappen were removed, but the ones *behind* him were left in place.
You've got a situation where if Hamilton makes a mistake in turn 1 and loses a second he drops a place, but if Max does the same thing he doesn't. Yep. It's why the 'oh well, at least it was exciting, let's move onto 2022' brigade are missing the wider point. Leaving the precedent (that the race director can just favourably position some cars but not others because 'it'll make an exciting race') unchallenged renders all the endeavour before a bit pointless. It's uncomfortably close to giving the race director the authority to call a 'time out' when it's just getting a bit dull and letting him switch car orders around to make for a better show. I'm now worried Liberty want to make F1 into Nascar with right turns. In Nascar, when the race gets strung out, the stewards literally proactively scour the course for a tiny fragment of debris that will give them an excuse to throw a full course yellow and close it up. The show comes before the rights of the team to enjoy a fair contest. |
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