Solid-SCB-
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Cyberpunk 2077 #1 Fan
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Post by Solid-SCB- on Dec 12, 2021 17:18:57 GMT
Hugely brave move really betting on himself against Leclerc and not allow himself to simply become a number 2 in the process.
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Post by peekconfusion on Dec 12, 2021 17:42:15 GMT
Anyone else feel like the best option is just to declare them joint winners (and get them to agree to that)? I genuinely can't see how they can dig themselves out of this hole.
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Phattso
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Post by Phattso on Dec 12, 2021 17:45:22 GMT
Kinda glad I didn't watch it now, but just saw some footage of the last lap. Unreal stuff, it really was.
Ho-hum. Rules lawyering it is, then. Can't see them walking back the result though. Much as I think Verstappen is a brat, and too often on the wrong side of acceptable when wheel-to-wheel, it is nice to have another World Champion on the grid. Adds a bit more spice to next year, possibly. Merc with an axe to grind, etc. etc.
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myk
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Post by myk on Dec 12, 2021 17:46:13 GMT
If the rules had been followed Lewis would have won - I don't think Mercedes would accept anything other than that. All this bodging has been what's been so weird and annoying recently.
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Post by starchildhypocrethes on Dec 12, 2021 17:50:35 GMT
Anyone else feel like the best option is just to declare them joint winners (and get them to agree to that)? Lolz, I think that’s worse than any other option. “At the end of the day, sport’s the real winner” Can’t see them changing anything tbh. |
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Post by barchetta on Dec 12, 2021 17:52:04 GMT
Can't see Masi surviving this. Mercedes want some justice/recognition of the fuck up. Maybe Masi will be their pound of flesh.
Was a fucked up call. Like making Marathon runners all gather back up for the last 100metres and make the leader wear wellies.
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X201
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Post by X201 on Dec 12, 2021 17:52:49 GMT
So in order to have “Motor racing” on the last lap, we’re left still not knowing the result hours later. Great move guys.
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Post by muddyfunster on Dec 12, 2021 17:54:49 GMT
Anyone else feel like the best option is just to declare them joint winners (and get them to agree to that)? I genuinely can't see how they can dig themselves out of this hole. I'd be ok with that provided Max races with 0.5 on his car next year. |
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Post by brokenkey on Dec 12, 2021 17:57:21 GMT
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Post by damagedinc on Dec 12, 2021 17:57:29 GMT
Sky summed it up. Depends on how much discretion the race director has. Problem is how can you have a sport where the rules can be manipulated on a whim.
Merc have every right to fight this. Writing has been on the wall for a long time with massi and it can't come as a suprise. Whole process needs an overhaul.
Paid professional stewards maybe two teams life football refs that follow the season. Paid professional race marshalls.
Clear "rules of engagement" out layer at the beginning of the season and stuck too. Much like rugby does and other sports.
At best this was a massi fuck up
At worst it was with an eye on the "show" which makes it not a sport.
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Post by muddyfunster on Dec 12, 2021 17:58:40 GMT
Can't see Masi surviving this. Mercedes want some justice/recognition of the fuck up. Maybe Masi will be their pound of flesh. Was a fucked up call. Like making Marathon runners all gather back up for the last 100metres and make the leader wear wellies. Crofty's comparison to '89 annoyed me. The football equivalent would be awarding the team losing 2-0 in added time 2 goals then awarding them a penalty kick so they can win it. Michael Thomas won it fair and square without the ref getting involved! |
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Post by Zomoniac on Dec 12, 2021 18:07:03 GMT
Sky summed it up. Depends on how much discretion the race director has. Problem is how can you have a sport where the rules can be manipulated on a whim. Felt like that bit in the Hunger Games. “Katniss is doing too well, throw in some zombie dogs and start setting shit on fire” |
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Post by barchetta on Dec 12, 2021 18:07:35 GMT
Can't see Masi surviving this. Mercedes want some justice/recognition of the fuck up. Maybe Masi will be their pound of flesh. Was a fucked up call. Like making Marathon runners all gather back up for the last 100metres and make the leader wear wellies. Crofty's comparison to '89 annoyed me. The football equivalent would be awarding the team losing 2-0 in added time 2 goals then awarding them a penalty kick so they can win it. Michael Thomas won it fair and square without the ref getting involved! Yeah, even as a Liverpool fan, that analogy was crap. |
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Post by damagedinc on Dec 12, 2021 18:11:30 GMT
The only way I can think of this shitfest leaving with any credibility.
Is to state that massi has the power to do the safety car lapped thing as race director. It will be reviewed for future seasons.
However accept that max passed Lewis who was the "safety car" even though marginal. Give max a 5 sec pen. Lewis wins.
That way fia don't look like tits and can say "well max you shouldn't have passed lewis" blame shifted and a just result recorded.
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Post by peekconfusion on Dec 12, 2021 18:11:59 GMT
Anyone else feel like the best option is just to declare them joint winners (and get them to agree to that)? Lolz, I think that’s worse than any other option. “At the end of the day, sport’s the real winner” Can’t see them changing anything tbh. It's clearly rubbish but it also avoids potential litigation. Everyone is also equally unhappy, which at this point, is the best we can hope for. |
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Post by muddyfunster on Dec 12, 2021 18:14:57 GMT
The only way I can think of this shitfest leaving with any credibility. Is to state that massi has the power to do the safety car lapped thing as race director. It will be reviewed for future seasons. However accept that max passed Lewis who was the "safety car" even though marginal. Give max a 5 sec pen. Lewis wins. That way fia don't look like tits and can say "well max you shouldn't have passed lewis" blame shifted and a just result recorded. Yes I think this is precisely what Mercedes have done. Given the FIA another out to save face. |
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Post by snackplissken on Dec 12, 2021 18:16:18 GMT
Toto and Horner man…. Ugh
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Post by peekconfusion on Dec 12, 2021 18:17:32 GMT
The only way I can think of this shitfest leaving with any credibility. Is to state that massi has the power to do the safety car lapped thing as race director. It will be reviewed for future seasons. However accept that max passed Lewis who was the "safety car" even though marginal. Give max a 5 sec pen. Lewis wins. That way fia don't look like tits and can say "well max you shouldn't have passed lewis" blame shifted and a just result recorded. Yes I think this is precisely what Mercedes have done. Given the FIA another out to save face. Not sure the FIA have any face left to save at this point. |
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X201
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Post by X201 on Dec 12, 2021 18:18:31 GMT
The only way I can think of this shitfest leaving with any credibility. Is to state that massi has the power to do the safety car lapped thing as race director. It will be reviewed for future seasons. However accept that max passed Lewis who was the "safety car" even though marginal. Give max a 5 sec pen. Lewis wins. That way fia don't look like tits and can say "well max you shouldn't have passed lewis" blame shifted and a just result recorded. I did ponder if Mercedes had put the safety car overtake in as an escape route for the stewards. |
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Post by Trowel 🏴 on Dec 12, 2021 18:19:16 GMT
Decision due at 6:30pm our time apparently.
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Post by muddyfunster on Dec 12, 2021 18:19:50 GMT
15.3 The clerk of the course shall work in permanent consultation with the Race Director. The Race Director shall have overriding authority in the following matters and the clerk of the course may give orders in respect of them only with his express agreement:
a) The control of practice and the race, adherence to the timetable and, if he deems it
necessary, the making of any proposal to the stewards to modify the timetable in accordance with the Code or Sporting Regulations.
b) The stopping of any car in accordance with the Code or Sporting Regulations.
c) The stopping of practice or suspension of the race in accordance with the Sporting Regulations if he deems it unsafe to continue and ensuring that the correct restart procedure is carried out.
d) The starting procedure.
e) The use of the safety car.
My reading would be that he can use the SC at his discretion but 15.3c clearly says he has to follow the correct restart procedure. It's literally the job.
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cubby
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Post by cubby on Dec 12, 2021 18:21:55 GMT
What a shitshow.
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X201
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Post by X201 on Dec 12, 2021 18:26:52 GMT
Mercedes, ever the masters of planning, have taken a barrister with them today, just in case something like this happened.
Rumours about Red Bull taking an extra barista are unconfirmed.
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Post by TheSaint on Dec 12, 2021 18:27:12 GMT
So overtaking under the safety car was rejected.
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Post by muddyfunster on Dec 12, 2021 18:28:42 GMT
In some ways the best outcome now it's been ruined is to go to the court of arbitration for sport.
Independent scrutiny of what's written in the actual rules and whether they were applied correctly. Unless there are more rules yet to be cited it seems open and shut. Would be a wake up call for the FIA and a reset for 2022. Preferably with no Massi.
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Post by muddyfunster on Dec 12, 2021 18:30:19 GMT
So overtaking under the safety car was rejected. The right decision but does mean the FIA have removed their easy out. |
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X201
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Post by X201 on Dec 12, 2021 18:31:18 GMT
I’m trying to think if we ever had crap like this under Charlie Whiting?
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Post by muddyfunster on Dec 12, 2021 18:33:34 GMT
Yes we did. 1997, Schumacher was only penalised much later. Spa 2008 was also on his watch.
It's much worse now, but his era wasn't without shenanigans.
Balestre era was by far the worst. No transparency, full politics.
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111
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Post by 111 on Dec 12, 2021 18:38:51 GMT
While it's hardly the main discussion point today, lapped cars unlapping themselves after a safety cars has always been a shitty spectacle-over-sport thing.
(Let alone the extra layers of bodging that Masi applied on top of it today by being so overeager to avoid finishing under a safety car that he invented some rules on the spot in order to do so.) Such a colossal shot-in-foot moment that has created a massive controversy out of nowhere. If they'd just followed the normal procedure - waited till the incident was clear, then let cars unlap themselves, then pull safety car in, no-one could have any reasonable complaint. And if the race ran out of laps before that all finished, so be it - that's just what happens when you get a late-race safety car - and separately, no-one would have been disadvantaged because Verstappen wasn't catching Hamilton anyway.
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X201
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Post by X201 on Dec 12, 2021 18:40:29 GMT
This is going to stand tonight and then go to the Court of Arbitration for Sport
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