|
|
Post by barchetta on Dec 5, 2021 21:19:54 GMT
Can you DNF and still get a point? Or, disable the cars such that a return to pits puts them out of contention?
Ah, I guess only 1pt for fastest if you finish?
|
|
|
|
Post by barchetta on Dec 5, 2021 21:21:01 GMT
Can you DNF and still get a point? Or, disable the cars such that a return to pits puts them out of contention? Ah, I guess only 1pt for fastest if you finish? Either going to be fine margins or some accident and one just waltzes to the end in a damp squib. |
|
Solid-SCB-
Full Member
Cyberpunk 2077 #1 Fan
Posts: 6,109
|
Post by Solid-SCB- on Dec 5, 2021 21:23:24 GMT
Fastest lap only gets a point if you finish top 10.
|
|
|
|
Post by stuz359 on Dec 5, 2021 21:23:54 GMT
I don't think the fastest lap can be a factor any more can it? Unless they finish 9th and 10th maybe. Set fastest lap, take other guy out. |
|
|
|
Post by starchildhypocrethes on Dec 5, 2021 21:29:20 GMT
I just can’t believe F1 have waited until the final climactic stage of the season to torment me with a constant barrage of “Abba Dabby” and ruin everything.
|
|
|
|
Post by stuz359 on Dec 5, 2021 21:44:31 GMT
Fastest lap only gets a point if you finish top 10. Did not realise that. Withdraw my previous statement. |
|
|
|
Post by muddyfunster on Dec 5, 2021 21:51:54 GMT
Just seen Max's comments in the press conference. Either he genuinely does not understand where the line is or he's totally disingenuous.
I'm worried it's the former and to some extent that's on the FIA. They've let him get away with so much and he's single handedly dragging driving standards into the gutter. Others are copying him. The failure to stamp out the aggressive stuff is coming home to roost and Massi and the stewards have lost control.
Just in this race alone Max
1) left the track to gain an advantage
2) rejoined unsafely forcing Hamilton to brake and swerve to avoid a collision
3) ran Lewis fully off the road to maintain the lead (despite being entirely behind before the turn in)
4) tried to force Hamilton to pass him just before DRS to negate the penalty thereby creating circumstances for the collision
5) eventually let Hamilton by but then immediately repassed him, which isn't allowed (Massa/Ham Spa precedent).
Hamilton isn't an angel and deserved a warning for running Max out wide himself. However I don't know how anyone is supposed to fairly race the bloke. He's consistently making erratic, crazy manoeuvres at high speed and the stewards let him get away with it 50% of the time. It needs to be 0% of the time to cut this shit out.
I don't want post race penalties, but Max should be left under no illusions that if he takes Lewis out next race he be DQ'd from the Championship. Otherwise he will absolutely do it.
|
|
|
|
Post by muddyfunster on Dec 5, 2021 21:56:11 GMT
Oh yeah, the icing on the cake is that he also has the brazen cheek to moan that F1 is about penalties and not racing. Of course it is, if you just continue to make up your own rules.
|
|
Solid-SCB-
Full Member
Cyberpunk 2077 #1 Fan
Posts: 6,109
|
Post by Solid-SCB- on Dec 5, 2021 21:58:30 GMT
They need to grow some bollocks and set things in stone.
I remember early in his career, he was famous for moving under braking. As soon as they put a line in the sand, it wasn't an issue.
He's basically the ultimate absuser of the disparity that's been created between the cars getting safer, but the rules that determine how those cars engage each other on track not doing the same.
|
|
Solid-SCB-
Full Member
Cyberpunk 2077 #1 Fan
Posts: 6,109
|
Post by Solid-SCB- on Dec 5, 2021 21:59:40 GMT
and I keep saying it; but if these rules do what they want them to do next year they are going to be in a turd of a mess with this stuff.
|
|
|
|
Post by damagedinc on Dec 5, 2021 22:10:38 GMT
Still can't get over what a shambles that race was. It was basically a f12021 lobby on the PlayStation.
Without wanting to sound over the top or biased I can't see how max can be allowed to drive like that. It's not entertaining it'd just plain bad sportsmanship. F1 isn't new to shithousery but doesn't mean it needs to be tolerated
|
|
|
|
Post by muddyfunster on Dec 5, 2021 22:14:06 GMT
I don't want to be too melodramatic (mind you that ship has probably sailed) but I worry about the soul of the sport. Max is really popular, (certainly with the kids that vote for things like driver of the day) so when Lewis retires he might be the face of F1.
F1 is the pinnacle of Motorsport and the reference for all the other categories. If the most successful/popular driver is happy to continually create the circumstances for contact, that will shift the norms down the pyramid. If everyone races like Max you won't have safe racing. There's a lot at stake here.
|
|
Solid-SCB-
Full Member
Cyberpunk 2077 #1 Fan
Posts: 6,109
|
Post by Solid-SCB- on Dec 5, 2021 22:30:38 GMT
Probably a bit late in the day for that when we're racing in a death trap that injured 2 drivers today, one of the cars getting the most camera time running a sponsor that had a part to play in a national tragedy over here and all in a Country that has an unspeakable human rights record. All in the name of money.
But yeah, it would be nice if they could separate their arses from their elbows on the basics I suppose.
|
|
111
New Member
Posts: 230
|
Post by 111 on Dec 5, 2021 22:39:57 GMT
My main issue with the situation/approach of: defend by taking the inside line on the approach to a corner and then just make no attempt to go round said corner, is that it totally nullifies a big chunk of what constitutes racing. Which is why it also rubs the wrong way that Verstappen tries to paint the problem as being that everyone else is obsessed with penalties whereas he's all about the racing - the whole problem is that his approach is completely anti-racing.
And these repeated "well we both didn't make the corner" comments are so pathetically disingenuous - he's well aware that *he* hasn't made the corner because he tactically chose not to to gain an advantage, and the other guy didn't make the corner because Verstappen's car is physically in the way of turning in.
Basically there needs to, one way or another, be a higher penalty for leaving the track, so that choosing to do so isn't an option.
|
|
|
|
Post by muddyfunster on Dec 5, 2021 22:43:22 GMT
It's not all about Max and Red Bull either. I'd really like to see what the data says about Bottas slowing under VSC. I think it's important to know if what he did was fine (i.e. a loophole where he ran to the legal max delta time whilst Lewis ran to the legal min delta).
If he was illegally slow, it shouldn't be ignored just because of the subsequent red flag. Once again the FIA shouldn't leave grey areas for something that should be black and white. Might well be above board but why leave doubt? It also materially impacts the constructors championship.
|
|
|
|
Post by muddyfunster on Dec 5, 2021 22:50:08 GMT
My main issue with the situation/approach of: defend by taking the inside line on the approach to a corner and then just make no attempt to go round said corner, is that it totally nullifies a big chunk of what constitutes racing. Which is why it also rubs the wrong way that Verstappen tries to paint the problem as being that everyone else is obsessed with penalties whereas he's all about the racing - the whole problem is that his approach is completely anti-racing. And these repeated "well we both didn't make the corner" comments are so pathetically disingenuous - he's well aware that *he* hasn't made the corner because he tactically chose not to to gain an advantage, and the other guy didn't make the corner because Verstappen's car is physically in the way of turning in. Basically there needs to, one way or another, be a higher penalty for leaving the track, so that choosing to do so isn't an option. Agree entirely, well said. It's an affront to proper racing, and it's Max trying to redefine what fair racing even is. He doesn't get to do that, no matter how talented he is, and it really pisses me off. You also know wormtongue Marko and Jos will be stoking his worst instincts, validating his myopia and filling his head with conspiracy nonsense. By Abu Dhabi Max will have a Senna like conviction that he's entirely justified in taking Hamilton out as revenge for something or other. |
|
|
|
Post by Phattso on Dec 5, 2021 22:57:32 GMT
What's hard for me is that Max, when he's on a flyer, looks soooo fucking good. That final lap in qualifying yesterday, it was just so dialed in, I was sitting here grudgingly saying "fuck me, fair play, you've more than earned pole position - kudos!" and then today he's basically chopping corners off with the tyres literally pointing in the wrong direction and I just think: "what a fucking bellend" and order is restored to the force.
Drudging through my memories, I'm pretty sure Hamilton was a bit that way in the early years. But whether it's bad memory, or subconscious bias (I'm not really Team Hamilton, but I do lean his way more often than not), I don't remember Hamilton being quite this bad.
And it's not just Merc bitching about Max, many of the other drivers are also basically saying he's nuts and he's going to cause major pileups. I kinda just wanna fast-forward to when he's chilled the fuck out a bit, and I can celebrate Verstappen's raw talent without his douchebaggery ruining it for me.
|
|
Solid-SCB-
Full Member
Cyberpunk 2077 #1 Fan
Posts: 6,109
|
Post by Solid-SCB- on Dec 5, 2021 22:58:11 GMT
The problem is that the pathetic stewarding is wholly feeding that attitude. He's absolutely right in a way, that same thing wasn't even looked at in Brazil. He'll think he's in the right until they draw a permanent line under it, much like they did with the moving in the braking zone.
It's been a growing issue since before Verstappen decided he'd take it to the theoretical limit. Hamilton himself has been a master of subtly running people out of tarmac just on the edge of what's reasonably acceptable for years, this kid has just taken it to a new level. He'll soon stop it if he's disqualified from races for doing what he's doing.
|
|
|
|
Post by Wizzard_Ook on Dec 5, 2021 22:59:10 GMT
Max handed a 10 second penalty for the incident. Was deemed to brake (2.4g) in front on Hamilton.
|
|
|
|
Post by Phattso on Dec 5, 2021 23:02:31 GMT
That doesn't do anything to the standings, as Bottas and Ocon were way more than that behind weren't they?
|
|
|
|
Post by muddyfunster on Dec 5, 2021 23:03:17 GMT
Wow. That's really bad. I genuinely didn't think he'd brake tested him. If that's truly what the telemetry says that's a new low. There's no good reason to stand on the brakes in the middle of a straight when you evidently know there's a driver directly behind you.
|
|
|
|
Post by Wizzard_Ook on Dec 5, 2021 23:03:30 GMT
Yup. Changed nothing. Think bottas finished 20 seconds behind Max.
|
|
|
|
Post by oldskooldeano on Dec 5, 2021 23:09:06 GMT
This sport needs to take a good look at itself. Weak officiating, whining Team principals, dangerous drivers and a wildly off course moral compass.
It feels like someone will need to die before anything changes.
|
|
111
New Member
Posts: 230
|
Post by 111 on Dec 5, 2021 23:09:17 GMT
The problem is that the pathetic stewarding is wholly feeding that attitude. He's absolutely right in a way, that same thing wasn't even looked at in Brazil. He'll think he's in the right until they draw a permanent line under it, much like they did with the moving in the braking zone. It's been a growing issue since before Verstappen decided he'd take it to the theoretical limit. Hamilton himself has been a master of subtly running people out of tarmac just on the edge of what's reasonably acceptable for years, this kid has just taken it to a new level. He'll soon stop it if he's disqualified from races for doing what he's doing. It's also an incredibly easy tactic to adopt, so if it's not stamped out, everyone will just start doing it and the whole field have a cheap mechanism to block overtakes in the braking zone. Hamilton was able to gain an edge over the likes of Rosberg by being better at judging that balancing act of how much room you need to leave someone in which phases of a corner to disadvantage them while staying within the rules (including staying on the track yourself). Which is why the few times Rosberg tried to do the same thing back to Hamilton it was hilariously clumsy by comparison and blatantly outside of the rules, rather than skillfully within them.
Anyone can do what Verstappen did in Brazil, which is why most of the reaction from other drivers was not "this must be stopped", it was just "oh, I assumed that wasn't allowed, but if it is I don't object I'll just start doing it too". Which will be fairer once everyone's doing it, it'll just make the racing shitter. |
|
|
|
Post by muddyfunster on Dec 5, 2021 23:15:16 GMT
+10s penalty is fine, I can accept that they didn't want this deciding the championship. Wtf is with only 2 license points though?
How is brake testing not considered more dangerous that Norris doing a slow extra lap when the red flag come out just as he was approaching the pit entry at 200mph in Baku?
I'm glad they've actually investigated it this time but come on, use the penalty points system properly. Seems like they prefer to award points for innocent mistakes rather than wilfully dangerous driving.
|
|
Solid-SCB-
Full Member
Cyberpunk 2077 #1 Fan
Posts: 6,109
|
Post by Solid-SCB- on Dec 5, 2021 23:16:55 GMT
Russell is getting the most generous entry into a pressure cooker ever with all this drama. Lad will stroll to the title by 125 points against the emotionally spent empty shells of Max and Lewis next year.
|
|
|
|
Post by Phattso on Dec 5, 2021 23:20:33 GMT
I know all bets are off for next season, but I really *really* want Russell to come in to a baton hand-off from Hamilton and absolutely roast the rest of them. He'll have his own meltdowns for sure, but I can't see it being Verstappen-esque. His one ride in the Big Seat he nearly won the Grand Prix, ffs.  |
|
111
New Member
Posts: 230
|
Post by 111 on Dec 5, 2021 23:23:32 GMT
Irrelevant of the fact that 10s didn't affect Verstappen's position, I don't really get the combination of "yes the telemetry shows someone stamped the brakes with another car right up the back of him" and "the penalty for that is less substantial than a drive-through or a stop-go".
Totally separate issue from Verstappen's I'll just not go round the corners thing of course.
|
|
|
|
Post by oldskooldeano on Dec 5, 2021 23:28:26 GMT
Yeah commentator says “the data will show what happened and if he did it will have huge ramifications”. Well the data shows he did but the penalty is a carefully managed meaningless one.
If RB and MV win this championship through what seems to me at least, blatant cheating and dangerous driving I’m done with F1.
|
|
Solid-SCB-
Full Member
Cyberpunk 2077 #1 Fan
Posts: 6,109
|
Post by Solid-SCB- on Dec 5, 2021 23:32:23 GMT
Probably got away with anything harsher on account of them both slowing and trying to play funny bastards with the DRS detection zone because I don't see how a legitimate brake check with a car less than a metre away from the back of yours is anything less than a disqualification and possibly even a Schumacher 97 type outcome.
|
|
