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Post by baihu1983 on Sept 4, 2024 6:49:55 GMT
Wasn't this all Jim Ryan's big thing?
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Derblington
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Post by Derblington on Sept 4, 2024 6:56:01 GMT
The reason that everyone is looking to drive these games into market is that Fortnite is sat atop a very, very large pie. Shooters are the 2nd largest market in the western games industry, and it’s something like an $8 billion market. Everyone wants a larger piece, and live service means a constant influx of money throughout the life cycle. It’s just too enticing to leave alone. We’ll constantly see studios trying to expand their presence, and we’ll continue to see various states of success and failure.
I’ve seen that the “anti-woke” brigade are already claiming Concord’s failure a win, and proof of “go woke, go broke” (all the while seemingly ignorant of the continued success of titles such as Apex and Overwatch).
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Frog
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Post by Frog on Sept 4, 2024 7:03:05 GMT
Market is saturated and there isn't room for another unless somehow it's incredible which they won't be because it takes years to get the product in the right place or it needs an existing fanbase (cod). I would be amazed if we see another GAAS game grab the market for a good few years.
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Vandelay
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Post by Vandelay on Sept 4, 2024 7:10:21 GMT
Terrible for the devs that worked on this for so long and for it to end so abruptly. By most accounts I've seen, the game itself isn't actually that bad. Perfectly serviceable and fun to dip into. That isn't good enough though and it needs to offer something unique to drag players from other games (that are also F2P).
Hopefully though, the fact it is supposedly a reasonably put together game means it isn't going to be much of a stain on the developers' CVs (and they might as well start looking for other work now, as I think we can all expect what is coming).
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crashV👀d👀
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Post by crashV👀d👀 on Sept 4, 2024 7:11:29 GMT
Yeah better to refund a few now than more later. saw a screen grab of the concurrent player count on pc and it got down to 30 (maybe actually hit lower as it's only trending down), but any further and they're struggling to fill lobbies which means they're unable to deliver the player experience you're expecting. If you can't get a match then they're open to lawsuits surely? This is the cheaper option |
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Frog
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Post by Frog on Sept 4, 2024 7:15:44 GMT
It will be repackaged as f2p with an awful monetisation model. F2P will bring in quite a few more players for a little while as well as a load of cheats on the pc version.
A slight surge and then death again would be my prediction.
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Post by simple on Sept 4, 2024 7:16:46 GMT
Market is saturated and there isn't room for another unless somehow it's incredible which they won't be because it takes years to get the product in the right place or it needs an existing fanbase (cod). I would be amazed if we see another GAAS game grab the market for a good few years. This seems like the fundamental thing the execs seem to miss. I might be able to chew though single-player games in a week (childcare permitting) but if I were to invest in this type of game there’s only really room in a person’s life to play one and Fortnite, Overwatch, Apex etc have already captured anyone who’d want to play one of these. |
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crashV👀d👀
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Post by crashV👀d👀 on Sept 4, 2024 7:17:42 GMT
Oh...I just remembered. This has a Secret Level episode planned for later this year. AWKWARD. yup. The tagline for the show was 'your favourite games...' |
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Derblington
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Post by Derblington on Sept 4, 2024 7:22:55 GMT
Market is saturated and there isn't room for another unless somehow it's incredible which they won't be because it takes years to get the product in the right place or it needs an existing fanbase (cod). I would be amazed if we see another GAAS game grab the market for a good few years. This seems like the fundamental thing the execs seem to miss. I might be able to chew though single-player games in a week (childcare permitting) but if I were to invest in this type of game there’s only really room in a person’s life to play one and Fortnite, Overwatch, Apex etc have already captured anyone who’d want to play one of these. They don't miss it, they're trying be the incredible thing that reshapes the market. It's a massive ask but the rewards are worth the effort if you can stick the landing. It's very hard to do, sure, but something will do it eventually, just as the ones at the top right now did previously. |
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Tuffty
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Post by Tuffty on Sept 4, 2024 7:27:47 GMT
Well one of the other episodes is for Amazons MMO, New World, so it won't be the only outlier.
While I do agree the market is pretty full for hero shooters, there are still some exceptions that can gain interest. Marvel Rivals is fueled by existing IP but also with the promise of 6v6 with no role queue, it taps into the early days of Overwatch 1 which a lot of people are looking forward to. There's a lot of OW content creators ready to ditch the game outright in favor for it, Rivals almost seems partly fueled by OW hate at this point. Plus while not exactly the same, Deadlock is also getting people interested. So it can be done but Concords marketing, character design etc all just hurt itself.
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Post by simple on Sept 4, 2024 7:32:29 GMT
This seems like the fundamental thing the execs seem to miss. I might be able to chew though single-player games in a week (childcare permitting) but if I were to invest in this type of game there’s only really room in a person’s life to play one and Fortnite, Overwatch, Apex etc have already captured anyone who’d want to play one of these. They don't miss it, they're trying be the incredible thing that reshapes the market. It's a massive ask but the rewards are worth the effort if you can stick the landing. It's very hard to do, sure, but something will do it eventually, just as the ones at the top right now did previously. I guess so, but if that’s their plan maybe don’t go with the most derivative generically designed and blandest looking games of all time. PUBG was “realistic” so Fortnite went colourful and Overwatch went comic book. Concord just went for “being another one”. There’s no reason for players to want to play it. |
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Frog
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Post by Frog on Sept 4, 2024 7:42:17 GMT
Nothing has stuck for ages though, they keep smashing their head against a closed door.
Marvel rivals comes with its own fanbase which gives it a chance for success (I would predict a short surge and then fading away as it doesn't look amazing but is apparently fun). If I was thinking of making a BR game to go after apex, Fortnite or warzone I would look at the star wars IP as there is huge potential there but even then the execution has to be perfect out the door or it will fail.
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Sept 4, 2024 7:52:07 GMT
One of the most repellent aspects of this 'high risk, high reward' approach is that the suits aren't the ones taking the risks (although they'll certainly be the main beneficiaries of any rewards that may accrue).
It'd be great if the Sony bigwigs responsible for this debacle would own up to it and *not* throw the Concord dev team to the proverbial wolves, but we've seen this movie before and we all know how it ends.
Also, chasing trends in a fast-moving zeitgeist when your AAA GaaS boondoggle will take almost a decade to move from concept to release is a fucking stupid idea in the first place.
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apollo
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Post by apollo on Sept 4, 2024 7:55:42 GMT
dickhead at gameindustry.biz trying to turn into a fanboy way
such a moronic take
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Post by dangerousdave on Sept 4, 2024 7:56:57 GMT
How does a game do well on Gamepass?
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crashV👀d👀
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Post by crashV👀d👀 on Sept 4, 2024 7:58:44 GMT
Also, chasing trends in a fast-moving zeitgeist when your AAA GaaS boondoggle will take almost a decade to move from concept to release is a fucking stupid idea in the first place. yep. Starship Troopers is going to try and cash in on the Helldivers gold rush ... |
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myk
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Post by myk on Sept 4, 2024 8:20:02 GMT
Feels like this is AAA's 'The marvels' moment that's going to cause every publisher to really look at what their studios are making.
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gamecat
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Post by gamecat on Sept 4, 2024 9:03:04 GMT
I don't think this is coming back, it's going to take months and a few more million dollars to turn this into a functional f2p title, battle pass, skins, voice lines, a decent shop, etc. Even then it's going to be the same decidedly average game, trying to take people the other big GAAS games, and if if were to die on it's arse a second time I don't think Sony would ever live it down.
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Post by Jambowayoh on Sept 4, 2024 10:10:26 GMT
I had also forgotten that Sony bought the studio off the back this game during development and Herman Hulst thoughts
that this might be one of the greatest multiplayer games ever. God it must be depressing/anxiety inducing to be a dev there right now.
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Post by rhaegyr on Sept 4, 2024 10:18:16 GMT
Really feel for the developers.
By all accounts it's a competent, well made game - it's just unoriginal and far too late for the market it chased.
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Post by oldskooldeano on Sept 4, 2024 10:26:21 GMT
And the 40 quid price point just hammers that final nail in
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Post by Whizzo on Sept 4, 2024 10:28:57 GMT
And the 40 quid price point just hammers that final nail in In the interests of accuracy, it was $40, it was £35, pretty much the only similarity it had to Helldivers II. |
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Post by simple on Sept 4, 2024 10:31:44 GMT
If it was F2P or PS+ from the off they might’ve got a small foothold to try and build from but a paid for title that was so enormously behind the curve on its direct rivals didn’t stand a chance.
Although even in this thread when we were predicting its doom from the opening post being so comprehensively killed in week 2 is unprecedented.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Sept 4, 2024 10:33:32 GMT
Yeah, as hard as it is to believe they charged money for it, releasing it F2P wouldn't have made any material difference. It might have taken it a month to die rather than two weeks.
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Post by Whizzo on Sept 4, 2024 10:35:06 GMT
Still makes me wonder who thought Destruction AllStars was going to work as a full price launch title and they pulled back from that, it failed when it was given away some months later on PS+.
Concord may have worked on PS+ but the trouble with that is giving it away to PS+ subscribers when they wanted PC players to stump up for it was never going to fly.
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Post by simple on Sept 4, 2024 10:45:12 GMT
Yeah, as hard as it is to believe they charged money for it, releasing it F2P wouldn't have made any material difference. It might have taken it a month to die rather than two weeks. I think this is probably the upcoming fate of that Marvel game. It’ll have. Curiosity/novelty bump early on but fade pretty fast as everyone who plays this sort of thing drifts back to the games people are invested in. By this point I think its time to accept that unless you’re intending to be niche the best way forward is to try and license an existing IP to Fortnite and hope you get a decent cut of any DLC revenue. |
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Derblington
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Post by Derblington on Sept 4, 2024 11:32:32 GMT
One of the most repellent aspects of this 'high risk, high reward' approach is that the suits aren't the ones taking the risks (although they'll certainly be the main beneficiaries of any rewards that may accrue). It'd be great if the Sony bigwigs responsible for this debacle would own up to it and *not* throw the Concord dev team to the proverbial wolves, but we've seen this movie before and we all know how it ends. Also, chasing trends in a fast-moving zeitgeist when your AAA GaaS boondoggle will take almost a decade to move from concept to release is a fucking stupid idea in the first place. In this case, it was a studio working on a game that Sony purchased, not a studio they’ve directed to develop something they weren’t cut out for, as is typical surrounding these failures. Sony had a gap in their portfolio and the studio had a product that filled it. It would be great if the dev came out relatively unscathed and fit to fight another day on another project, but I don’t think the failure here is a direct result of Sony’s effort. Similar thing with Redfall and MS, and likely, unfortunately, the same outcome. |
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Post by Jambowayoh on Sept 4, 2024 11:38:04 GMT
One of the most repellent aspects of this 'high risk, high reward' approach is that the suits aren't the ones taking the risks (although they'll certainly be the main beneficiaries of any rewards that may accrue). It'd be great if the Sony bigwigs responsible for this debacle would own up to it and *not* throw the Concord dev team to the proverbial wolves, but we've seen this movie before and we all know how it ends. Also, chasing trends in a fast-moving zeitgeist when your AAA GaaS boondoggle will take almost a decade to move from concept to release is a fucking stupid idea in the first place. In this case, it was a studio working on a game that Sony purchased, not a studio they’ve directed to develop something they weren’t cut out for, as is typical surrounding these failures. Sony had a gap in their portfolio and the studio had a product that filled it. It would be great if the dev came out relatively unscathed and fit to fight another day on another project, but I don’t think the failure here is a direct result of Sony’s effort. Similar thing with Redfall and MS, and likely, unfortunately, the same outcome. What do you see as the key reasons for its failure? |
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Derblington
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Post by Derblington on Sept 4, 2024 11:51:16 GMT
Largely that it's an uninteresting concept with no specific hook in their world building. I've not played it, obviously won't, and that's pretty much why. I play Apex, and nothing about the reveal or gameplay I've seen of Concord said that I needed to try it.
Judging by the numbers it was the same for everyone.
Those that have played it say it's a competent shooter, so they've seemingly got all the technical stuff right.
Like Redfall, it could have been delayed, or pivoted, or whatever, and that's obviously part of the publishers duty within the relationship of the title ownership, but it seems like Firewalk built a game with little creative appeal for the market.
For that reason I can't see it coming back as a F2P title. I think it's dead-dead.
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Vandelay
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Post by Vandelay on Sept 4, 2024 11:52:26 GMT
Well one of the other episodes is for Amazons MMO, New World, so it won't be the only outlier. While I do agree the market is pretty full for hero shooters, there are still some exceptions that can gain interest. Marvel Rivals is fueled by existing IP but also with the promise of 6v6 with no role queue, it taps into the early days of Overwatch 1 which a lot of people are looking forward to. There's a lot of OW content creators ready to ditch the game outright in favor for it, Rivals almost seems partly fueled by OW hate at this point. Plus while not exactly the same, Deadlock is also getting people interested. So it can be done but Concords marketing, character design etc all just hurt itself. I don't know much about the Marvel Rivals game. I haven't seen much buzz, but I also am not likely to be hanging out at the places where that is going to be (and I didn't think the brief showing at the State of Play was that interesting). Deadlock though isn't really a comparison for Concord. If anything, it is an example of studio taking the right approach to developing a multiplayer game. If you look at Deadlock for longer than a few moments (which is all I have done, as I don't have access until a kind person gives me an invite *cough*), it is clear that it is far closer to a third person DOTA than a hero shooter. That is genre that has been nascent for a long time and also hasn't had much innovation. The change of perspective also is going to attract people that aren't necessarily from a DOTA background. Smite did something similar, but they didn't really do much with the third person angle, other than a slight emphasis on direct movement control. Deadlock brings more shooter DNA to the package. So, you have the Dota crowd looking for something innovative from their genre, plus the hero shooter crowd attracted to something recognisable, but very different. Plus, it's Valve and people will be willing to try anything they are making (unless it is a card game). |
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