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Post by starchildhypocrethes on Feb 13, 2023 21:58:28 GMT
You want to play the wizard game, you play the wizard game. You do you. What does irk me a bit though, is when those who do choose to play it then feel they need to defend that by either downplaying or handwaving away the issues other people do have with Rowling, transphobia and her association with the game, under the guise of “supporting the devs” or some other nonsense. They got paid and just made a game for the biggest IP this side of Star Wars, they don’t need “support”.
You know who does though?
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Post by lordofthedunce on Feb 13, 2023 22:03:46 GMT
My brother is trans, people like JKR make his life harder, and it's already been pretty fucking hard. This game can fuck off and JKR can too.
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Post by baihu1983 on Feb 13, 2023 22:05:20 GMT
They got paid but also we know full well if the game underperformed WB aren't going to take responsibility or say we should have seen this coming, they will just close that studio and fire a lot of people. (Not saying that as in everyone should go buy it that's just the likely outcome)
Have WB ever said anything about her recently? I'm guessing no? Or was that one of the reasons for them killing the recent films? Or was that just because 2 and 3 bombed?
I know the studio avoided talking about her just saying they wanted to make this game for everyone.
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Post by Jambowayoh on Feb 13, 2023 23:03:14 GMT
WB have made a concerted effort not to mention her at all. In the Harry Potter reunion they actively tried to make it seem that she didn't exist. I think it started around the same time there was an intersection between her rants and full throated support of Johnny Depp.
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Post by Vandelay on Feb 13, 2023 23:18:01 GMT
Well, I think that is just the public facing side of it. Pretty certain I've seen mention of WB being in talks with her about next steps with the franchise. There has supposedly been acknowledgement internally that Fantastic Beasts isn't going to continue, but I haven't had the impression from what I've heard about these conversations that they are trying to ditch her involvement going forward, even relegating her to an executive producer credit with no creative control. The impression is that she will still be calling some shots, be that as a writer or just having general oversight.
Whether that is because WB think she is worth keeping hold of despite the controversies, or because she has said to them that it is either her and the franchise or nothing I guess nobody knows outside of the negotiation room.
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Post by grizzly on Feb 13, 2023 23:35:29 GMT
I mean, it's the games industry. A lot of people are going to get fired no matter what you do. I think the argument of "not buying this game is going to get people fired" is something that just doesn't work. The statement also applies for literally every other game out there. HogLeg (in this case) shouldn't get special treatment in that regard.
I'm not even sure you could call any of this (gestures vaguely at screen) a boycot: You don't buy videogames to live. Not spending money is the default option. It's not a mass movement that convinces big buyers to systematically cut certain people/nations/practices out of their supply chain. And becuase of the sordid dynamics of marganilized groups and the bigotry they face facing off against the interests of capital, nobody was going to do damage the profitability of JK Rowling's franchise any more then the fantastic beasts series already did.
I suppose there's a lot more I could say but a lot of it is informed by me seeing what happened to Jessie Earl (aka Jessie Gender) being singled out by Rowling for saying things that we're... well, just pretty normal really... so err, go watch/read her stuff? It's pretty ok.
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Feb 14, 2023 0:11:01 GMT
One of the things I value about Font Geek - on a long and distinguished list - is that we can disagree about stuff like this in civil, adult fashion. There's no need for a blanket, "If you have any interest in this game whatsoever, you're a raging transphobe!" ban on mentioning Hogwarts Legacy, a la ResetEra; there's also no need for a blanket, "If you don't buy this game, you're a [transphobic slur] sympathiser, you woke libtard cuck!" stance, a la NeoGAF (I'm guessing).
In short, I won't judge anyone here who buys the game in question, 'cause I trust that a) you have your reasons, and b) whatever said reasons may be, they're not rooted in anti-trans bigotry and/or "owning the libs."
As for me, I haven't purchased the game, and have no plans to do so in the future; however, I can't claim any White Liberal Ally points for this, as I wouldn't have bought it even if JKR hadn't become such a toxic asshat. (My interest in Harry Potter died in 2003, when I read the fifth book and absolutely *hated* it.)
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Post by mothercruncher on Feb 14, 2023 4:19:51 GMT
Definitely not judging either. Although I am keeping THE LIST
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Post by Bill in the rain on Feb 14, 2023 4:29:52 GMT
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Duffman5
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Post by Duffman5 on Feb 14, 2023 6:38:52 GMT
It’s a lot easier having no skin in the game. I’m trying to imagine what I’d do if, say, the head of Fromsoft was exposed as a massive racist just as Elden Ring DLC was announced. I can’t say I’d boycott it in principle, and I’d probably be coming out with the same justifications if anyone questioned my “allyship”, so I can’t harshly judge people who just want to play a game set in a world they love. This is always an interesting subject. Many of us are passionate about something or someone, if anyone involved was found to be racist, sexist, homophobe (any 'phobe) etc would you still want to buy, read, play, listen to their product, where do you draw the line ? I am a Pink Floyd fanatic and find a great deal of what Rog' has come out with lately, not to align with my views, but I still think The Wall is the greatest piece of art every created...across all media (at least that I have been exposed to in my 50 years) I also love Tony Hancock and John Lennon, definitely flawed individuals. If I want their product, I still intend buying Ubi games and so on. Will you stop watching films that had HW hand in them, I think that means you never watch a QT film again ?
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Frog
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Post by Frog on Feb 14, 2023 6:59:56 GMT
I wouldn't watch a film that Kevin Spacey made now and unfortunately it's ruined his older ones for me, which is a pain as I adored American Beauty.
I will still by Ubi games as they are an awful employer but they aren't constantly throwing punches at a part of society that already has a horrific suicide rate and is the most bullied.
Everyone has their personal line of what they can tolerate as a consumer and shouldn't be judged on it (exceptions are of course out there).
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Post by bichii2 on Feb 14, 2023 7:14:12 GMT
Shit my 11 year old clearly hates trans as he bought this last night. Turns out as his account is also on my Xbox (for halo split screen) I can also download and play it!! Result! Evil Hermione here we come.
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Frog
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Post by Frog on Feb 14, 2023 7:20:26 GMT
One of the things I value about Font Geek - on a long and distinguished list - is that we can disagree about stuff like this in civil, adult fashion. Well, most of us.
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Post by drhickman1983 on Feb 14, 2023 7:21:32 GMT
I won't begrudge anyone who buys the game or enjoys it, but I'm glad that this has raised awareness of how much of a shit JKR is.
I personally have no interest in the game, it wasn't even on my radar until it came out, and none of the clips have particularly made me think "oh that looks cool". But I do enjoy the discussion surrounding it (so apologies to those who just want to enjoy the game).
But there are surely things that I enjoy where the artist has done some awful things or aired awful views.
For better or worse, I generally do separate the piece of work from the creator, and would only consider boycotting something if the work was being used to espouse those views.
And I don't believe that playing Hogwarts Legacy is tacit approval of Rowling's cuntish views.
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Post by Aunt Alison on Feb 14, 2023 7:29:57 GMT
I respect anyone with the conviction to not buy/do something they want in support of a cause. If people do buy it, I'm probably not going to give it much thought or even remember, to be honest, unless they make a big performance out of it
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Post by richyroo on Feb 14, 2023 8:08:11 GMT
Well I bought the game, I am enjoying it and I don't feel bad about it.
I feel for the developers who have actually created one of, if not the most inclusive game ever when it comes to representation of characters. The game should of been celebrated for this, instead this fact is being completely overlooked because of 1 person.
JKR has enough fucking money already, as if another huge cheque is really going to make a shit load of difference.
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Post by UncleLou on Feb 14, 2023 8:22:08 GMT
"I read my most recent royalty cheques and find the pain goes away pretty quickly."
Buy the game, play the game, don't feel bad about it, but let's not pretend it doesn't make a difference.
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Post by Vandelay on Feb 14, 2023 8:45:18 GMT
I don't think it is just the one royalty cheque either. The more sales and more money it makes the more likely they are to create additional content in the franchise and the less likely WB are to decide to distance itself from her. It isn't one royalty cheque, but all the ones that follow too.
As a massive corporation, WB aren't going to make a moral stance. They are only going to change course if they see the current one as resulting in less money than the alternative path.
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Post by Bill in the rain on Feb 14, 2023 8:52:42 GMT
Personally, I don't have a huge issue with enjoying works by people who turn out to be problematic (though of course there is a big scale there). I wouldn't have any ethical issue with watching American Beauty, for example. Though I might feel differently about the character.
I do think twice about something that will give money to them, though that's not always clear. If I already owned a book by an author who did something scummy, I'd have no issue with reading it. I might not want to buy new books by them, though I might buy them used.
I'd also draw the line about consuming something that espouses those views. As such, if my kids want to enjoy Harry Potter I'm not going to refuse to buy them, but I'll often buy second hand if it's not too difficult. But I'm not going to be buying her shitty detective books about trans murderers or whatever.
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malek86
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Post by malek86 on Feb 14, 2023 9:14:00 GMT
I guess HP is a bit of a weird case here. It's not like some random director turned out to be racist. We are talking about one of the biggest franchises in the world - and especially one that, for many adults today, was their gateway into fantasy. Or even their main escapism series. I think that, before JKR started ranting, Harry Potter most likely had a very diverse fandom.
So it would be much worse if the very people to whom the book appealed to, suddenly start feeling alienated by the author of their old favorite.
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Post by harrypalmer on Feb 14, 2023 9:47:49 GMT
The boycott (on buying the game) has been great for raising awareness of what a scumbag JKR is. I have full respect for people doing it and talking about it, and honestly I would like to think I'd have thought harder about my decision to buy it had I been better informed.
I wont be buying anything with her name on it from now on (generally that's easy as its mostly shit).
In regards to the game, its tricky as its very well made, fun and as others have said, seemingly very inclusive and positive. I would like to see a specific acknowledgement from the devs that they reject her views, I think that would be very powerful. Ultimately she should be held to account.
That's where I find the lack of coverage from certain outlets baffling. This is when they should be talking about these things, and to stay silent is bullshit. I honestly don't get it at all. Even the crazy Wired 'review' is at least doing what it sets out to do and discussing the problem.
I certainly feel a bit icky about my purchase, and that's fine. I feel icky watching Polanski films (Chinatown is one of my favourite films) or reading Lovecraft, and to a lesser extent playing games based on his lore.
The difference is JKR has tremendous power and influence, and she should be made to suffer for how she uses that privilege. The boycott absolutely hurts her, and that's good.
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Post by Bill in the rain on Feb 14, 2023 10:07:01 GMT
The Two Jakes is better.
(do we have to feel icky about Jack Nicholson for any reason?)
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Post by harrypalmer on Feb 14, 2023 10:09:45 GMT
The Two Jakes is great, but not better! I think Jack is probably a bit of a letch, and almost certainly shagged teens. Par for the course really.
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quadfather
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Post by quadfather on Feb 14, 2023 10:14:04 GMT
Ok, so because I live under a rock, I thought I'd better read up on all this rowling thing.
fucking hell, I don't know whether it's because I've read it all in one go, but fuck me, can we just shut twitter down please? It appears to bring the cunt out in everyone
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Post by Duffking on Feb 14, 2023 10:21:58 GMT
Lets be honest it's not just the transphobia, there's a shitload of problematic stuff in HP, from the quite obviously antisemtic depiction of the goblins through to the "maybe slavery isn't bad if the slaves claim to like it" bullshit, the borderline racist names chosen for any non-white characters and that the general theme of the story is "boy who sees first hand all the corruption and bigotry in the world's goal in life is to join the wizard gestapo".
It's a semi interesting point that a lot of other media also has some shady people involved, but the profile and status and distance from product to outcome matters somehwat. Buying a Pink Floyd record isn't directly funding the Russian war effort, because it's not like all the Russian bots look up to him and he doesn't have that kind of influence in the in the same way that purchasing HP stuff directly funds an extremely prominent voice of hate in JKR.
Like, buy a Floyd album and it's like "shame Waters is a cunt these days", buy HP and it's like "shame the creator of this is a transphobic and probably racist bigot who actively seeks to embolden communities that want trans people to either be second class members of society or dead".
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Post by Phattso on Feb 14, 2023 10:24:08 GMT
When the reviews came in I was gonna buy this. The chatter in this thread has given me a moment of pause. Not saying it'll ultimately stop me, but the fact I'm even having to weigh it up is a "good" sign. Pray for me, FG.
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quadfather
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Post by quadfather on Feb 14, 2023 10:30:33 GMT
When did it all go so wrong?
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malek86
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Post by malek86 on Feb 14, 2023 10:32:11 GMT
It's easy for me because I don't care about Harry Potter, but yeah, I don't know how I'd react if it turned out that some of my favorite developer or authors of my favorite series were hateful individuals.
Generally... I think I'm more likely to not care if the person themselves has already died by the time I find out about their issues. Like say, I know Lovecraft was an asshole, but I don't have much o a problem with reading his books because i knew what I was getting into. Meanwhile, I wouldn't want to read anything by JKR today, and probably neither in the future.
Not very logical, I know. Maybe it's also that I already expect old authors to be often problematic anyway.
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Post by Duffking on Feb 14, 2023 10:33:10 GMT
The world was definitely a better place when JK's antics were limited to pretending that characters were gay when pointed out that there weren't any in the books or that there were totally also Jewish people in Hogwarts and look they have sterotypical names too and mostly everyone could just agree all the later books were overlong shite full of deus ex machinas that were plainly trying to make it look like it'd been planned for ages.
Simpler times.
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Post by rhaegyr on Feb 14, 2023 10:33:57 GMT
When the reviews came in I was gonna buy this. The chatter in this thread has given me a moment of pause. Not saying it'll ultimately stop me, but the fact I'm even having to weigh it up is a "good" sign. Pray for me, FG. Pretty much where I'm at too.
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