technoish
Junior Member
Posts: 2,787
Member is Online
|
Post by technoish on Nov 17, 2022 14:33:21 GMT
Holy fuck: FTX says the "fair value" of all the crypto that FTX international holds is a mere $659! Remember that SBF has been marking it at $5.5bn He corrects that later on, it is $659,000. Not that it really makes much difference tbh Yeah 659,000 instead of 659 of 5,500,000,000 is not all that different....! |
|
Bongo Heracles
Junior Member
Technically illegal to ride on public land
Posts: 4,661
|
Post by Bongo Heracles on Nov 17, 2022 14:38:31 GMT
It does differ slightly in that Madoff did it deliberately but FTX was just run by a 20-something CoD Clan. I imagine that the lying about the assets bit will have been deliberate. I dunno. It does seem as if they are just fucking useless. This is/was the CEO of Alameda Research |
|
|
|
Post by drhickman1983 on Nov 17, 2022 14:39:34 GMT
He corrects that later on, it is $659,000. Not that it really makes much difference tbh Yeah 659,000 instead of 659 of 5,500,000,000 is not all that different....! In the context of 5,500,000,000, the difference is less than a percent. You could say the difference between both amounts and 5,500,000,000 is *about* 5,500,000,000. |
|
|
|
Post by smoothpete on Nov 17, 2022 14:42:09 GMT
I did the maths. He had "only" overstated by 99.99% rather than by 99.99999%
|
|
technoish
Junior Member
Posts: 2,787
Member is Online
|
Post by technoish on Nov 17, 2022 14:47:28 GMT
I imagine that the lying about the assets bit will have been deliberate. I dunno. It does seem as if they are just fucking useless. This is/was the CEO of Alameda Research "Have to be comfortable with risks" Yeah, risks with other people's money... |
|
|
|
Post by brokenkey on Nov 17, 2022 15:26:47 GMT
If you look at the accounts across the 4 firms insolvency filing , it's not far off. Almedea has 4bln in crypto. .com has 1 bln in us stable coin
|
|
cubby
Full Member
doesn't get subtext
Posts: 6,404
|
Post by cubby on Nov 17, 2022 15:53:41 GMT
It really is no different to what Madoff did. It does differ slightly in that Madoff did it deliberately but FTX was just run by a 20-something CoD Clan. Having most of your assets in your own made up coin isn't a deliberate act of conning people? |
|
Bongo Heracles
Junior Member
Technically illegal to ride on public land
Posts: 4,661
|
Post by Bongo Heracles on Nov 17, 2022 16:38:36 GMT
Thats not what Im saying. Madoff very deliberately ran a ponzi scheme. From what I can see this turned into one almost by accident because it was being run by dumbasses.
|
|
|
|
Post by GigaChad Sigma. on Nov 17, 2022 17:10:18 GMT
The best thing about crypto is how easy it is to use.
It's super stable, you can buy anything, transfer it out as cash instantly and there's no fees for buying or trading.
It really is the future.
|
|
dogbot
Full Member
Posts: 8,738
|
Post by dogbot on Nov 17, 2022 17:19:21 GMT
Thats not what Im saying. Madoff very deliberately ran a ponzi scheme. From what I can see this turned into one almost by accident because it was being run by dumbasses. I dunno. Don't get me wrong, I buy them being dumbasses and maybe not even originally intending to just scam people, but there's too much in this to be accidental dumbassery. The lies, for a start. You don't have to be stupid to lie. Them being shit at it, sure. |
|
Bongo Heracles
Junior Member
Technically illegal to ride on public land
Posts: 4,661
|
Post by Bongo Heracles on Nov 17, 2022 18:07:07 GMT
Oh yeah, there’s obviously been a lot of bullshit in there, criminal negligence, the works.
I’m not excusing them or anything. It was just a glib half joke about deliberate criminality vs criminal idiocy. They expected the line to go up forever and for a while it did so everyone looked away while a group of inexperienced dipshits found themselves suddenly running billion dollar companies. Then it didn’t and shocked pikachu faces that they ran it badly and, ultimately, dishonestly in an attempt to keep afloat.
|
|
cubby
Full Member
doesn't get subtext
Posts: 6,404
|
Post by cubby on Nov 17, 2022 18:10:07 GMT
Thats not what Im saying. Madoff very deliberately ran a ponzi scheme. From what I can see this turned into one almost by accident because it was being run by dumbasses. I probably agree with your distinction as well, but there's an element where I suspect Madoff also thought he accidentally fell into his scheme and it spiralled out of control. |
|
|
|
Post by Trowel 🏴 on Nov 17, 2022 18:53:50 GMT
I don't know how he sniffs this stuff out so well, but apparently Michael Lewis had already been shadowing SBF for the last 6 months ahead of all this, so the movie rights are already being hawked around.
|
|
H-alphaFox
Junior Member
Buy Kramer Coin now!
Posts: 2,287
|
Post by H-alphaFox on Nov 17, 2022 21:03:59 GMT
What do you see as the difference between delegating your coins, and lending them into someone else's wallet? I don't know how eths proof of stake works, but don't the nodes need to demonstrate they own enough coins to play at validation? I suspect the delegating is just a fancy term for lending out. Well you are not actually lending them to anyone and remain in full control of your coin/token, essentially you are only interacting with on chain contracts. Every coin will probably use a slightly different way of going about it. Some may lock your tokens for a small period while they are put to work , some may not and you are free to use them while they are at work. It will depend but by using a non-custodial wallet and using the the coins native mechanism it remains a trustless activity. It's not interest, it's a reward for validating the network, just like mining. Eth staking does sound more complicated, you need 32 eth to run a node, but that's not really what you/we mean. Talking about the 6-10 or whatever percent yield you get on apps. But eth is a pig of a chain, currently once you stake, for the moment at least it gets frozen on the contract and you can't withdraw until the next upgrade which they have not got a timeframe on at all. I guess it's the same idea with staking pools and you still can't cash out yet. And that is where exchanges and custodial wallets come in and you are essentially lending them your coins to act on your behalf and while probably the easiest option this can be a big problem for many reasons. People paying out eth yields right now are not getting it from staked eth for example and it is almost certainly not made clear to the average joe. I'm all for sensible regulation when it comes to CEXs but I still thin it's better to not really use them for much, keep your coin in your keys and you wont lose it, it may go to zero though but I really don't think it will. |
|
|
|
Post by brokenkey on Nov 17, 2022 21:59:22 GMT
Btw I was looking at staking returns of Tezos. Whilst they are headline high, because of the rate of printing of new tokens, the rewards end up being 0.67%.
|
|
H-alphaFox
Junior Member
Buy Kramer Coin now!
Posts: 2,287
|
Post by H-alphaFox on Nov 18, 2022 9:57:14 GMT
Well, that would be about right give or take.
0.67% per rewards cycle.
That's 6.7 cents to every $100
Rewards cycle pays every 3 days so around 120 rewards a year
That's 8% ish per annum.
|
|
|
|
Post by Resident Knievel on Nov 18, 2022 11:06:54 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by brokenkey on Nov 18, 2022 12:03:12 GMT
Well, that would be about right give or take. 0.67% per rewards cycle. That's 6.7 cents to every $100 Rewards cycle pays every 3 days so around 120 rewards a year That's 8% ish per annum. No, I think you've got the wrong way around. See the adjusted reward column here www.stakingrewards.com/earn/tezos/"The annualised reward rate adjusted by the inflation of the network supply" |
|
Bongo Heracles
Junior Member
Technically illegal to ride on public land
Posts: 4,661
|
Post by Bongo Heracles on Nov 18, 2022 12:08:35 GMT
Its hard to argue with that. I think, technically, FTX was a bigger bust than the Lehman Bros. but FTX hasnt triggered a global financial meltdown. Let them wipe each other out. |
|
H-alphaFox
Junior Member
Buy Kramer Coin now!
Posts: 2,287
|
Post by H-alphaFox on Nov 18, 2022 13:48:13 GMT
Well, that would be about right give or take. 0.67% per rewards cycle. That's 6.7 cents to every $100 Rewards cycle pays every 3 days so around 120 rewards a year That's 8% ish per annum. No, I think you've got the wrong way around. See the adjusted reward column here www.stakingrewards.com/earn/tezos/"The annualised reward rate adjusted by the inflation of the network supply" That is not how it works, you absolutely get say 6% p.a (random number as it varies) not .88% 1 token = 1 token and that doesn't change if it goes to zero or the moon . And since typing this the adj reward has gone to .74% presumably as everything is in the shitter and on a downward spiral. It's a nonsense metric tied to current valuations that will show 10% when things are on the climb. |
|
technoish
Junior Member
Posts: 2,787
Member is Online
|
Post by technoish on Nov 18, 2022 15:25:56 GMT
You are saying the same thing. It's like 6%. Which is less than 0 given inflation is at 11%  The real question there is why the fuck you wouldn't go for the least risky option given the meagre additional gains from higher risk. |
|
|
|
Post by brokenkey on Nov 18, 2022 18:21:37 GMT
It's not rpi, high Street inflation though, it the increasing pool of Tezos inflation. Like how dogecoin mints 14m coins per day, devaluing all the pre existing coins along the way. Just so we're all agreed on that.
The point being (and sorry for labouring it, thread fans), is that it's easy as a coin issuer (ie, exchange coins, like FTT) to say we'll give you a 500% return, but if they way they are achieving that is simply minting squillions of new coins every day, it don't mean shit. We all agree with that, right?
|
|
technoish
Junior Member
Posts: 2,787
Member is Online
|
Post by technoish on Nov 18, 2022 20:24:42 GMT
It's not rpi, high Street inflation though, it the increasing pool of Tezos inflation. Like how dogecoin mints 14m coins per day, devaluing all the pre existing coins along the way. Just so we're all agreed on that.
The point being (and sorry for labouring it, thread fans), is that it's easy as a coin issuer (ie, exchange coins, like FTT) to say we'll give you a 500% return, but if they way they are achieving that is simply minting squillions of new coins every day, it don't mean shit. We all agree with that, right?
Ooooh yes I see that now. Utter bonkers. |
|
|
|
Post by Resident Knievel on Nov 18, 2022 20:27:02 GMT
that's why i'm all in on the inflation proof bongo coin
|
|
|
|
Post by GigaChad Sigma. on Nov 19, 2022 8:04:14 GMT
|
|
Bongo Heracles
Junior Member
Technically illegal to ride on public land
Posts: 4,661
|
Post by Bongo Heracles on Nov 19, 2022 8:16:46 GMT
Uh… did I just will something into existence?
|
|
cubby
Full Member
doesn't get subtext
Posts: 6,404
|
Post by cubby on Nov 19, 2022 8:18:28 GMT
Every shitpost mints a new coin.
|
|
dogbot
Full Member
Posts: 8,738
|
Post by dogbot on Nov 19, 2022 8:29:25 GMT
Elisabeth Holmes gets 11 years for her 9 billion fraud.
If I was those FTX folks, I'd be puckering hard right now.
|
|
|
|
Post by smoothpete on Nov 19, 2022 10:32:54 GMT
I watched the Enron documentary last night, The Smartest Men in the Room. Worth a watch, I didn’t know much about it before but damn it was fascinating, particularly in the current context of FTX.
|
|
Frog
Full Member
Posts: 7,304
Member is Online
|
Post by Frog on Nov 19, 2022 10:57:09 GMT
Elisabeth Holmes gets 11 years for her 9 billion fraud. If I was those FTX folks, I'd be puckering hard right now. Did she get to keep the money afterwards? If so I would totally make that sacrifice. |
|
