Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Oct 24, 2023 13:29:24 GMT
MercenaryZoan Thanks for that! Interesting stuff, especially the part about character level vs. gear level - I had no idea. I'm pretty sure I'll just roll credits once and be done with it, which is what I do with all the games I play (except for From Software's titles, which I replay until I've seen all the available endings). Actually, I just bought the base PS4 versions of Nioh and Nioh 2, so I don't have access to the DLC anyway.
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Post by MercenaryZoan on Oct 24, 2023 17:33:11 GMT
No problem.
Well, if you'll ever change your mind, the Season Passes (+single DLCs) for both Nioh games often end up on sale. Personally, as far as quality/amount of content added goes, I'd put them at the same level of Bloodborne's Old Hunters; it may be the Nioh fanboy in me speaking, but without tackling the DLC difficulties, one doesn't get to see where Nioh really shines. The base games are basic "Soulsborne-like" hack 'n' slash… with the DLC, the RPG-oriented elements take the spotlight.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Oct 24, 2023 18:50:40 GMT
The great/slightly annoying thing about the DLC is that they finish the story of the main games, if you care about it.
I wouldn’t go as far to say as they are mandatory but I do think of Nioh/Nioh 2 as the game plus DLC. They are pretty comprehensive packages.
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Oct 24, 2023 22:28:18 GMT
Another day, another Nioh boss beating my ass into a fine paste!
This time, it's Okatsu's turn.
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Post by MercenaryZoan on Oct 25, 2023 16:11:03 GMT
Dual Swords have a counter move (L1+Triangle) which can deal with a lot of human bosses' attacks, look for it in the skill tree. Hell, as a matter of fact, most human bosses are weak to counters. I'm fond of the katana counter, you push them to the ground for a decent chunk of damage which you can follow up with a stab (or final attack, as the game calls it).
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Oct 25, 2023 19:13:05 GMT
Dual Swords have a counter move (L1+Triangle) which can deal with a lot of human bosses' attacks, look for it in the skill tree. Hell, as a matter of fact, most human bosses are weak to counters. I'm fond of the katana counter, you push them to the ground for a decent chunk of damage which you can follow up with a stab (or final attack, as the game calls it).
Many thanks for this tip - The Shrike worked like a charm!
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Oct 26, 2023 19:35:06 GMT
... And now it's Shima Sakon. Gah!
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Oct 26, 2023 23:00:09 GMT
Well, Shima is dead. Yay!
Now there's a five-storey yokai running amok on the battlefield. Boo!
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Oct 26, 2023 23:25:16 GMT
Thanks for the information regarding the DLC expansions, Nick.
While I wouldn't say that the story of Nioh is bad, I also can't say that I'm all that interested in it - "Irish samurai wants to reclaim his Guardian Spirit, which has been stolen by a bald, evil wizard" is about all I've really grasped! - and it'd have to nail the landing for me to want to see more of this narrative.
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JonFE
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Post by JonFE on Oct 27, 2023 6:21:35 GMT
I love reading your adventures playing Nioh Ulythium , perhaps this will be my final push to give it another chance - as if JuniorFE hasn't already tried his best to convince me
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Post by JuniorFE on Oct 27, 2023 7:42:19 GMT
Thanks for the information regarding the DLC expansions, Nick. While I wouldn't say that the story of Nioh is bad, I also can't say that I'm all that interested in it - "Irish samurai wants to reclaim his Guardian Spirit, which has been stolen by a bald, evil wizard" is about all I've really grasped! - and it'd have to nail the landing for me to want to see more of this narrative. That would be because for the most part that's what's given to you (the wizard, Kelley, is using Amrita -the resident level-up material- to try and destabilize Japan. Your spirit can detect Amrita, so he took it.) Kelley's interference aside, to understand the background plot (of both games, at that) you kind of need at least a passing knowledge of the Warring States/Sengoku period of Japan's history (if you're familiar with names like Nobunaga, Hideyoshi, Ieyasu etc, it's the period during which they were all launching a big mess of wars to unify Japan in the wake of the previous Shogunate's collapse. Granted they're mostly done by Nioh 1, but still, the effects are being felt). The games do have a sort of compendium built in, but it's not required reading or anything (and it obviously can't cover everything), so the background mostly gets lost in the mix and you're left with something I'd almost contemplate calling an Excuse Plot, to use TV Tropes parlance. I will say Nioh 2 has a stronger, more personal main narrative though, so even if the first game's leaves you disappointed it does get better.
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JonFE
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Post by JonFE on Oct 27, 2023 8:48:22 GMT
Thanks for the information regarding the DLC expansions, Nick. While I wouldn't say that the story of Nioh is bad, I also can't say that I'm all that interested in it - "Irish samurai wants to reclaim his Guardian Spirit, which has been stolen by a bald, evil wizard" is about all I've really grasped! - and it'd have to nail the landing for me to want to see more of this narrative. That would be because for the most part that's what's given to you (the wizard, Kelley, is using Amrita -the resident level-up material- to try and destabilize Japan. Your spirit can detect Amrita, so he took it.) Kelley's interference aside, to understand the background plot (of both games, at that) you kind of need at least a passing knowledge of the Warring States/Sengoku period of Japan's history (if you're familiar with names like Nobunaga, Hideyoshi, Ieyasu etc, it's the period during which they were all launching a big mess of wars to unify Japan in the wake of the previous Shogunate's collapse. Granted they're mostly done by Nioh 1, but still, the effects are being felt). The games do have a sort of compendium built in, but it's not required reading or anything (and it obviously can't cover everything), so the background mostly gets lost in the mix and you're left with something I'd almost contemplate calling an Excuse Plot, to use TV Tropes parlance. I will say Nioh 2 has a stronger, more personal main narrative though, so even if the first game's leaves you disappointed it does get better. Gosh, I wish you were so thorough with your uni courses
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Post by JuniorFE on Oct 27, 2023 8:52:16 GMT
That would be because for the most part that's what's given to you (the wizard, Kelley, is using Amrita -the resident level-up material- to try and destabilize Japan. Your spirit can detect Amrita, so he took it.) Kelley's interference aside, to understand the background plot (of both games, at that) you kind of need at least a passing knowledge of the Warring States/Sengoku period of Japan's history (if you're familiar with names like Nobunaga, Hideyoshi, Ieyasu etc, it's the period during which they were all launching a big mess of wars to unify Japan in the wake of the previous Shogunate's collapse. Granted they're mostly done by Nioh 1, but still, the effects are being felt). The games do have a sort of compendium built in, but it's not required reading or anything (and it obviously can't cover everything), so the background mostly gets lost in the mix and you're left with something I'd almost contemplate calling an Excuse Plot, to use TV Tropes parlance. I will say Nioh 2 has a stronger, more personal main narrative though, so even if the first game's leaves you disappointed it does get better. Gosh, I wish you were so thorough with your uni courses One paragraph is "thorough" now? I wish my uni courses were that easy
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JonFE
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Post by JonFE on Oct 27, 2023 9:50:41 GMT
Gosh, I wish you were so thorough with your uni courses One paragraph is "thorough" now? I wish my uni courses were that easy Nioh 2 wasn't easy, yet you completed that...
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Post by Aunt Alison on Oct 27, 2023 12:58:13 GMT
Thanks for the information regarding the DLC expansions, Nick. While I wouldn't say that the story of Nioh is bad, I also can't say that I'm all that interested in it - "Irish samurai wants to reclaim his Guardian Spirit, which has been stolen by a bald, evil wizard" is about all I've really grasped! - and it'd have to nail the landing for me to want to see more of this narrative. The story is amazing compared to the second game
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Post by JuniorFE on Oct 27, 2023 13:54:09 GMT
Thanks for the information regarding the DLC expansions, Nick. While I wouldn't say that the story of Nioh is bad, I also can't say that I'm all that interested in it - "Irish samurai wants to reclaim his Guardian Spirit, which has been stolen by a bald, evil wizard" is about all I've really grasped! - and it'd have to nail the landing for me to want to see more of this narrative. The story is amazing compared to the second game That is not a commonly held opinion from what I've seen
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Post by Aunt Alison on Oct 27, 2023 13:55:44 GMT
I didn't finish the second, to be fair. But the early parts barely have a story at all. At least the first one has something you can follow
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wunty
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Post by wunty on Oct 27, 2023 14:57:01 GMT
I thought the second was slightly clearer but I barely paid attention in either of them. Just wanted more of that sweet sweet yokai killing action.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Oct 27, 2023 16:28:16 GMT
The first one is a bit of a straighter line. The quantum leap stuff in the sequels DLC was a bit confusing/an excuse to jump into historical battles.
But, outside of the crappy story, the levels are generally very good and they introduce more enemy variety. It’s more of the same, for better or worse, so if you dig it, it’s another few hours to play through.
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Oct 28, 2023 17:21:04 GMT
I think I'm nearing the end, now. The mission called 'The Samurai from Sawayama' was bastard difficult, but the boss at the end of it wasn't too bad; now I'm on 'The Demon King Revealed', which will no doubt prove equally hard. JonFE If it helps (or hinders!) you at all, I certainly think that Nioh is worth playing, even though it has probably angered me more than any other game I've played to date. (Wow - that's quite the caveat.) There's also the fact that many people, including some of our fellow Font Geeks, regard Nioh 2 as the superior game in pretty much every respect - in that sense, you may prefer to skip the first and go straight to the sequel. JuniorFE How come you didn't finish Nioh, if you don't mind my asking? You clearly made some good progress with it, and if Hino-Enma didn't make you throw in the towel, I doubt anything else did! Was it just swallowed by a massive backlog?
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Post by Samildanach on Oct 28, 2023 17:28:48 GMT
I'm being a lot slower than you, Ulythium, as I have only just started the snowy level that follows the spider castle (with a short boring rerun of the graveyard sidequest for padding).
When I get into the swing of things, the game is undeniably fun, however I will then chain death in quick succession and it boils my blood! You can die so damn easily, much more so than in the Souls games I feel.
Anyway, it's good enough to keep going, I just wish it didn't have these wretched repeat sidequest levels that I feel I can't ignore due to becoming likely under-leveled for the main missions/missing out on good loot.
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Post by Aunt Alison on Oct 28, 2023 17:37:36 GMT
Loot is randomised and outlcassed so quickly, I doubt it matters
Personally I preferred the first game. I felt the second added too many new elements and the combat felt less satisfying. They add a mechanic where you can one shot enemies to lose their ki and it's super telegraphed to the point where it felt like all you're doing is waiting for that one moment. Same with bosses. Might be remembering differently but that was one of the things that put me off
The other was that it ditched the gimmicks you got in each level in the first game which kept things a bit more fresh, especially when the levels themselves aren't all that interesting. There's a thing they do on most (all?) levels where you have to enter a yokai realm section, where you can't use certain abilities, find a particular enemy and kill it. That would have been fun for one stage in the original but I just got sick of it in the sequel
Another thing I remember was the heavy use of enemies from the first game (especially if you played the DLC)
None of those things are terrible or make it a bad game. I just preferred the original from what I played of it
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Oct 28, 2023 18:42:31 GMT
I did all of the sub-missions in the first three areas, a couple in the fourth, then stopped bothering with them - they're by no means bad, but I didn't think they were all that good either. Too many recycled maps, with bosses that are just upscaled versions of regular enemies (plus annoying adds, 'cause everyone loves those).
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JonFE
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Post by JonFE on Oct 28, 2023 19:57:10 GMT
Ulythium Thanks!!! I already regard both Nioh games worth playing. I used to love team Ninja games back in their OG Xbox days, especially Ninja Gaiden Black and I always had my eyes on their games. I've purchased both Nioh games and their DLC on release and double dipped on PS5 as well. My problem was failing to get the grasp of ki pulse and thinking, possibly erroneously, that it was of vital importance for me to use it as a stamina reserve and yokai cleanse... Then, time passed by, newer games caught my attention and Nioh got pushed to the backlog. Wo Long made me appreciate Team Ninja games again and that's what will probably make me try again, along with JuniorFE who is adamant that ki pulse can be avoided.
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Post by JuniorFE on Oct 28, 2023 20:01:50 GMT
Ulythium Nioh 1 more or less just got unlucky, with the combination of backlog pushing it away and me having played through 2 now. I might go back to it at some point but it's got neither of the weapon types I mained in 2 so it'll be tough JonFE less "avoided", more "not as vital as you're making it out to be"
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Oct 28, 2023 20:50:53 GMT
The odd thing about ki pulse is that it is important but they eventually give you an easy mode where where you ki pulse on dodge.
Once I got that, I rarely pressed R1 to do it anymore. Combo, dodge out of there and you’ve regained a chunk of stamina.
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Oct 28, 2023 21:34:40 GMT
Side note: I love seeing DadFE and SonFE chiming in during the same thread JonFE Your knowledge of Team Ninja clearly exceeds (and predates) mine - I bought the Nioh games because I wanted to check out their work, but the Ninja Gaiden Master Collection didn't come to retail outside of Japan. I went with Nioh as it looked like Ninja Gaiden + Dark Souls... which it kind of is, so that worked out well. JuniorFE Do you still have your old Nioh save file? I reckon you could get to the end pretty quickly if you felt so inclined (and had the time, what with other games and uni work vying for room on your plate!). I never 'got gud' at ki pulsing, but I sort of got halfway competent at it; then, as Bongo Heracles said, they give it to you for dodging later on (and I tend to dodge a lot, so that was a big help).
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JonFE
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Post by JonFE on Oct 28, 2023 21:45:47 GMT
JuniorFE has offered me his old Nioh save file to continue from since it already has sloth on that, so maybe I'll put it to good use
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Oct 29, 2023 0:24:31 GMT
Sounds like a win-win situation for all concerned!
Oda Nobunaga is... well, he's definitely a Nioh boss, I'll say that much.
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Oct 29, 2023 23:49:17 GMT
Well, the last three bosses fell in swift succession.
Now I'm in the epilogue mission.
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