Phattso
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Post by Phattso on Sept 2, 2023 13:09:53 GMT
Seen a few people on here say how it looks last gen. Then other people on here and I'm reviews saying how gorgeous it is for the most part. Which one is it? It certainly looked gorgeous in the one video review I watched. It’s higher res. Better textures. In the right moment the lighting is great. Mostly it’s drab. Interiors are already samey. The ambient NPCs wouldn’t look out of place on a 360 or PS3. The hero NPCs are mid level from the last gen at best. Better to just scrunch your eyes up and let your imagination do the heavy lifting. It’s fine. It’s not great. The less said about the immersion killing loads the better. But it has that Bethesda loop. The weapon, ship, and settlement building and customising looks good. It’s sci-fi. The music gets you in all the right places. The quests can delight. The writing is decent. Fallout 4 in space really is the best description. But if you compare it to the two recent Jedi games, which nail the sense of having a real ship going to real places. Or hell, even Mass Effect. It pales. Got to think it’s entirely down to reusing their engine. Nobody makes all of these bad choices if they have any other option. |
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Phattso
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Post by Phattso on Sept 2, 2023 13:12:40 GMT
And, yes, I did get pissed last night and Did A Quaddy and bought the cash grabbing premium upgrade for this. Thanks for asking.  |
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Frog
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Post by Frog on Sept 2, 2023 13:40:46 GMT
I think the difficulty with them changing engines is down to the number of objects and object permanence. Can't remember where I read/heard it but the number of objects you have and the ability to have them wherever you want doesn't carry over to other engines.
You can fill a house full of stolen socks if you want and they stay there.
How much value that brings to a game for you is up to you of course.
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Phattso
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Post by Phattso on Sept 2, 2023 14:03:04 GMT
I think the main reason other engines don't bother is precisely because it doesn't add much. I haven't built one, but I am a software dude, and this really doesn't feel like an unsolvable problem. We already have systems that are streaming in GIGABYTES of textures every time you turn around, so a list of where your socks are buried doesn't feel like it should present a challenge. But even within the limitations of the engine, there's no artistry to cover up the deficiencies. Is it loading the game in the background while a pre-canned animation is playing out? Is it fuck. etc. etc. The new DF video is fairly positive on it overall - worth mentioning that any moment you think "fuck! that looks amazing!" will likely be the photo mode.  |
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Frog
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Post by Frog on Sept 2, 2023 14:16:13 GMT
No photo mode for me, if I ever end up in one it's generally via a misclick
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Phattso
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Post by Phattso on Sept 2, 2023 14:19:39 GMT
Yeah, same.
Oh, one thing worth mentioning: on a PC, with a higher framerate, it all feels substantially better. Obviously that's not surprising, and I'm not a 60FPS purist (which is lucky, as my laptop is only hitting 45-50 with VRR), but if you have that option then do check it out. Keyboard/Mouse feels pretty good too - I haven't missed the sticks except when trying to walk more slowly.
My usual reason for prefering the console over PC is my nice big HDR TV. But, as noted, the HDR here is incredibly subtle and set unusually low with no options to tweak.
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Derblington
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Post by Derblington on Sept 2, 2023 14:28:24 GMT
The whole image feels washed generally. Blacks aren’t black. Space is light grey, which I assume is a design choice but it’s weird.
It’s another thing you can’t fix on console, as there are no options for it, and even the Xbox system itself asks you to colour/brightness correct your tv, which isn’t the problem.
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Frog
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Post by Frog on Sept 2, 2023 14:28:47 GMT
I will be playing on pc when I get round to it. I really don't like playing first person games at 30 they feel awful.
If I ever finish with baldurs gate 3 that is.
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hicksy
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Post by hicksy on Sept 2, 2023 14:32:11 GMT
I've got a pile in the corner of my ship Best you bag it up dude before someone steps in it. |
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Post by baihu1983 on Sept 2, 2023 14:32:36 GMT
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neems
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Post by neems on Sept 2, 2023 15:40:31 GMT
Alright, that's just wrong.
The straw and carton, or the E in single malt whisky? What's the issue with the 'e'? |
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Post by Zomoniac on Sept 2, 2023 15:45:33 GMT
The straw and carton, or the E in single malt whisky? What's the issue with the 'e'? It shouldn’t be there. Whiskey is Bourbon or Irish or American style. Whisky is Scottish or the Scotch style. If it’s a single malt it shouldn’t have an e. |
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Post by kingbambino on Sept 2, 2023 15:53:24 GMT
You can get American single malt Whiskey
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Post by Aunt Alison on Sept 2, 2023 16:01:21 GMT
What's the point of comparing this to every game that's set in space
I haven't played Jedi Whatever but I'm guessing it doesn't offer the same experiance as Starfield or you'd just be playing that instead
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Phattso
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Post by Phattso on Sept 2, 2023 16:05:45 GMT
Not comparing the game. Comparing one - funnily enough - comparible element of it. In Jedi you land the ship. You see the place out the window. The ramp drops. You walk down the ramp into the place you just landed. It's fucking great. In Starfield you land. You can *see* the place you've landed out the fucking window. Go to the back of the ship. Fade to black. Appear at the bottom of the ramp. I say again: you can *see* place you've landed out the window. One feels this small conceit to making it all feel connected was within their grasp. And the game is sort of riddled with those missed opportunities. I'm genuinely intrigued to see how far the modders can work around the engine for stuff like this. Credit where it's due, reusing the engine does mean that the mods are going to reach awesome levels in a relatively short time. |
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Post by Aunt Alison on Sept 2, 2023 16:12:40 GMT
Yeah but the rest of the game, engine, etc is completely different. Different games do different things well. Game features don't exist in a vacuum. I think your expectations (like a lot of people's) are just too high
I just don't see the point in getting pissed off at things the game isn't or doesn't do, unless it's broken or doesn't offer anything good besides
Like some people are on reddit looking for things to be pissed off at before they've even played it
How to play Starfield without playing Starfield (and hating it)
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neems
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Post by neems on Sept 2, 2023 16:15:29 GMT
You can get American single malt Whiskey And also Irish. |
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Frog
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Post by Frog on Sept 2, 2023 16:23:33 GMT
Ok the best situation is that you fly in and and get out and walk about seamlessly which no man's sky has.
The second best is the jedi survivor way.
Starfields is objectively the worst of them.
I think it's ok that people don't like the way they do it and raise it as a point of contention with the game.
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Post by starchildhypocrethes on Sept 2, 2023 16:23:45 GMT
Due to a day off yesterday and my partner being away this weekend, I have now played an embarrassing amount.
It’s pretty much bang on with what I wanted. A Bethesda Space RPG with everything that should entail.
They could probably have used a few more transitional cutscenes on space, sure, but the way it actually works is fine with me. It’s like Freelancer or the X series. No faffing about waiting for hours to get anywhere, but then nicely populated zones you then enter where you can jaunt about in your ship doing things.
Plus there’s then a whole RPG attached onto it which is sci-fi Skyrim / Fallout on a ridiculous scale, and there is a tonne to do.
Everything links together quite well too. I decided to pop down and land on the Moon earlier. I found a civilian outpost there and as I was wandering over to it a mercenary ship landed and started raiding it. I decided to be a hero and started fighting them, then two other ships landed with reinforcements and big scuffle ensued. As the Space Hero that I am I obviously won eventually and the three dropships took off like the cowards they are, whilst I carried on exploring away. When I was finished a while later I took off to carry on with a quest, only to find said three cowards waiting in space for me too systematically blow me to pieces whilst shouting some nonsense about revenge. Twats.
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Phattso
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Post by Phattso on Sept 2, 2023 16:24:08 GMT
Yeah but the rest of the game, engine, etc is completely different. Different games do different things well. Game features don't exist in a vacuum. I think your expectations (like a lot of people's) are just too high I just don't see the point in getting pissed off at things the game isn't or doesn't do, unless it's broken or doesn't offer anything good besides Like some people are on reddit looking for things to be pissed off at before they've even played it How to play Starfield without playing Starfield (and hating it) Who on here is pissed? All of the marketing leading up to this made it feel like this seamless journey. It's not. It's cut up. It feels retrograde to me. That means the game is only so-so for me, because every couple of minutes the (otherwise pretty effective) immersion gets shit on. That's a shame. I'm allowed to be disappointed. I'm disappointed Other studios have achieved more with less, and the specific things I'm talking about are problems that the vast majority of open worlds have solved already. Bethesda chose not to solve them, and the game is poorer for it. It's still a decent game. I'm still playing it. I'll still finish it. As an aside, the reviews that say it gets better the more you play (and specifically after a dozen or so hours) are bang on the money. It's still not great, but I am at least chugging along nicely and enjoying it. |
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Phattso
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Post by Phattso on Sept 2, 2023 16:26:29 GMT
starchildhypocrethes I had a very similar experience in another area - I was mainly pissed the dropships adiosed themselves before I could ransack them for goodies.
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Post by Jambowayoh on Sept 2, 2023 16:33:13 GMT
I'm looking forward to playing this when I get to my Xbox next week.
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Post by richyroo on Sept 2, 2023 16:34:13 GMT
Well I can't stop playing it. For me, it's one of the most immersive games I have played, even with all the loading screens. The characters are great, I love how your companion also contributes and gives their opinion on a mission. I went to steal something and they made it perfectly clear they were not happy with me.
I left New Atlantis and stepped onto Mars. It looked gorgeous. At times this game can look so good, and others it can show its age. It's very much a mixed bag, I think it depends on lighting a lot of the time. Indoor environments tend to look good because of the insanely high detail assets.
Overall, this is meeting my very high expectations.
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zephro
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Post by zephro on Sept 2, 2023 16:35:49 GMT
I think the main reason other engines don't bother is precisely because it doesn't add much. I haven't built one, but I am a software dude, and this really doesn't feel like an unsolvable problem. We already have systems that are streaming in GIGABYTES of textures every time you turn around, so a list of where your socks are buried doesn't feel like it should present a challenge. But even within the limitations of the engine, there's no artistry to cover up the deficiencies. Is it loading the game in the background while a pre-canned animation is playing out? Is it fuck. etc. etc. The new DF video is fairly positive on it overall - worth mentioning that any moment you think "fuck! that looks amazing!" will likely be the photo mode. Hmmmm it does sound suspicious. In general you'd keep some sort of spatial tree which is generally common. There's ways to optimise that but I doubt other engines are particularly different on that front. I'd suspect they just have a absolute metric shit ton of internal tooling all based on the engine they have. Also the Building elements they've added are not common so you'd be looking to rebuild it from scratch. Not something we've seen in idTech. Which would be the one they'd switch to presumably. As it powers Doom and Arkane. Tech debt basically. |
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Post by Aunt Alison on Sept 2, 2023 16:40:42 GMT
Ok the best situation is that you fly in and and get out and walk about seamlessly which no man's sky has. The second best is the jedi survivor way. Starfields is objectively the worst of them. I think it's ok that people don't like the way they do it and raise it as a point of contention with the game. It's not objective. Some people don't care and would rather just land and get on with exploring, etc. It's a different experience - what you want from it is entirely subjective
Even if you could do it seamlessly, they'd have to include a way to skip it because people would get sick of it every time
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Phattso
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Post by Phattso on Sept 2, 2023 16:41:35 GMT
I think the main reason other engines don't bother is precisely because it doesn't add much. I haven't built one, but I am a software dude, and this really doesn't feel like an unsolvable problem. We already have systems that are streaming in GIGABYTES of textures every time you turn around, so a list of where your socks are buried doesn't feel like it should present a challenge. But even within the limitations of the engine, there's no artistry to cover up the deficiencies. Is it loading the game in the background while a pre-canned animation is playing out? Is it fuck. etc. etc. The new DF video is fairly positive on it overall - worth mentioning that any moment you think "fuck! that looks amazing!" will likely be the photo mode. Hmmmm it does sound suspicious. In general you'd keep some sort of spatial tree which is generally common. There's ways to optimise that but I doubt other engines are particularly different on that front. I'd suspect they just have a absolute metric shit ton of internal tooling all based on the engine they have. Also the Building elements they've added are not common so you'd be looking to rebuild it from scratch. Not something we've seen in idTech. Which would be the one they'd switch to presumably. As it powers Doom and Arkane. Tech debt basically. I'm not sure I'd say it was tech debt specifically, as it was positively opted into with the way they built the engine (vs. TD which is usually side effects of taking shortcuts). Feels more like an architectural cul-de-sac. But it's semantics, I agree in general. ONe presumes that they internally value the workflow more than the end product, if that makes sense? A bunch of people who are totally expert in working with the engine, and they didn't want to rock that boat and spoil the secret sauce. Given the number of people in the thread already in thrall to the game, they were probably right. For me: I remain surprised that the maker of some of the most lauded and cricically acclaimed and commercially successful RPGs of all time, after being acquired by a Trillion-dollar multinational, somehow couldn't bring themselves to give the engine the overhaul it needs. It's a real shame, and a real lost opportunity IMO. |
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Phattso
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Post by Phattso on Sept 2, 2023 16:44:04 GMT
Ok the best situation is that you fly in and and get out and walk about seamlessly which no man's sky has. The second best is the jedi survivor way. Starfields is objectively the worst of them. I think it's ok that people don't like the way they do it and raise it as a point of contention with the game. It's not objective. Some people don't care and would rather just land and get on with exploring, etc. It's a different experience - what you want from it is entirely subjective
Even if you could do it seamlessly, they'd have to include a way to skip it because people would get sick of it every time
Sick of what? You already literally have to walk to the back of the ship already. The load actually slows it down. You could be out and gone before the fade to black had even finished. And for people that don't want that, it already has fast travel that just zips you to the front door of the next mission giver or whatever. I can't believe you're arguing that less immersion is somehow better. Why make us even walk places? Can't we just point at a distant hill and appear there? Where do you draw that line? And... just to check... you don't even have the game, right? |
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zephro
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Post by zephro on Sept 2, 2023 16:45:15 GMT
Eh tech debt often manifests as the amount of work required to properly fix it is more costly than patching up what you have. So you make the decision while knowing that it's not really ideally what you'd want. Or what engineering would want anyhow.
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Post by Aunt Alison on Sept 2, 2023 16:47:58 GMT
It's not objective. Some people don't care and would rather just land and get on with exploring, etc. It's a different experience - what you want from it is entirely subjective
Even if you could do it seamlessly, they'd have to include a way to skip it because people would get sick of it every time
Sick of what? You already literally have to walk to the back of the ship already. The load actually slows it down. You could be out and gone before the fade to black had even finished. And for people that don't want that, it already has fast travel that just zips you to the front door of the next mission giver or whatever. I can't believe you're arguing that less immersion is somehow better. Why make us even walk places? Can't we just point at a distant hill and appear there? Where do you draw that line? And... just to check... you don't even have the game, right? Nope. Frog hasn't got it either, who I was replying to
And that wasn't my point- it has fast travel because some people want to speed up the process, therefore the preferred method of landing/exiting your ship is subjective
And sick of landing the fucker
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Blue_Mike
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Post by Blue_Mike on Sept 2, 2023 16:57:44 GMT
12.5 hours in, and I still haven't left Jemison. Took off from New Atlantis and started exploring the other areas of the planet. At this point, "Ask About Maora In Cydonia" is fast becoming my equivalent of "Meet Hanako At Embers".
I thought the scanner would be like the one in No Mans' Sky, just one scan and you've recorded the thing, but with this you have to study multiple examples of the thing. There is a skill you can acquire that will let you reduce the number of necessary scans, according to a helpful loading screen message.
Found a Spacer base with enough lootable tech that I've been able to finish off a few of the level 1 research projects, and snagged myself a rather nice new Epic level helmet. The over encumberance is starting to grate on me, although it's paid off, quite literally, as I currently have 75 grand to my name.
Got a lung infection from a pack of those horrible creatures that look like an insectile version of Mr Bloom, fortunately I had some antibiotics on hand, and it amuses me that some of the medical stuff in this game looks like it was designed by Thermal Grizzly.
I'm enjoying the skills system, it's nice that you have to complete challenges in order to advance a rank in them. The one for sprinting 2500 metres while at 75% of encumberance was a doddle for me, as I'd walked for miles from my ship while exploring. |
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