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Post by Phattso on Aug 19, 2023 20:32:01 GMT
All of which detracts from the real question: at what point will Starfield reveal itself to be a reskin of Fallout 3?
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Post by Jambowayoh on Aug 19, 2023 20:32:11 GMT
It's going to be intriguing when Sony's 1st party output is going to consist mainly of GaaS which is where they're heading with 14 on the horizon.
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Post by Aunt Alison on Aug 19, 2023 20:43:32 GMT
I don't really understand the Steam comment. All games are on Steam so loads of them have monetisation. Have a look around. Sony are one of the few publishers who don't monetise their games because they're selling consoles. It's not indicative of the wider industry
I don't think I said gaming is ruined, I said it's being ruined and made worse. It was better before MTX, DLC, loot boxes, special editions. You just bought a game that was made to be fun and played it. Now they're made to make money above all else and it shows
Dunno why we're being understanding of corporations being cunts
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Post by Phattso on Aug 19, 2023 21:00:29 GMT
I'm just thinking back to every Ocean movie licensed game I bought for my Spectrum in the 80s and reading your "they're just made to make money above all else" comment. It's a moment for me. :-D
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Post by Aunt Alison on Aug 19, 2023 21:02:10 GMT
Fuck it, let it burn. I don't even like games, they're shit
Apart from Cult of the Lamb. That's a good one
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Post by JuniorFE on Aug 19, 2023 21:05:35 GMT
Not to fan the flames any further, but would Nintendo be a counterpoint to this conversation?
No MTX outside of mobile (which I think we can all agree is pretty ridiculous with it by design) and when there is DLC it's pretty substantial. Just look at the Xenoblades, Torna and Future Redeemed easily have as much content as a decently-sized full game, and they're only part of the season pass. Or Pokémon Sword and Shield, which, with all its other faults (and even the developers have recently been like "Hey, maybe we need to slow down our releases") also had pretty beefy DLC. Or the Octopaths and Super Mario Odyssey, which had none. Or the Hyrule/Fire Emblem Warriors games, or Mario Kart... You get the point. I guess BotW's wasn't as beefy as others, but that's about it, out of games I've played at least...
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Post by Jambowayoh on Aug 19, 2023 21:12:46 GMT
I would say Nintendo is it's own thing at this point. I don't think you can even include them in this kind of argument.
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Post by Aunt Alison on Aug 19, 2023 21:15:50 GMT
Not exactly cheap though are they, Nintendo. There's also amiibos and Pokemon games always coming in two almost but not quite identical versions Some games/publishers are better or worse than others but generally, monetisation is rife in the industry in one form or another
Isn't Pokemon Go a bit of a mess now?
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Post by Jambowayoh on Aug 19, 2023 21:20:21 GMT
That's not Nintendo though.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2023 21:21:30 GMT
At least we have Double Fine.
Right?
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Post by Aunt Alison on Aug 19, 2023 21:29:43 GMT
That's not Nintendo though. I thought Pokemon was Nintendo. Fair enough |
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Post by JuniorFE on Aug 19, 2023 21:32:05 GMT
Not exactly cheap though are they, Nintendo. There's also amiibos and Pokemon games always coming in two almost but not quite identical versions Some games/publishers are better or worse than others but generally, monetisation is rife in the industry in one form or another
Isn't Pokemon Go a bit of a mess now?
No MTX outside of mobile (which I think we can all agree is pretty ridiculous with it by design) I was very careful to get mobile out of the way from the start, Pokémon GO falls under that (and yeah, I don't think Nintendo had anything to do with the development there, it's pretty much all Niantic, but even if they did, again, mobile. Lousy with MTX.) As for Amiibos, they are pretty much entirely optional. They don't make anything particularly easier, the vast majority of the time the rewards are either purely cosmetic or materials you can find in-game anyway and it's not too often you need specific Amiibos to get something out of a game. The only real examples of exclusive content I can think of are Wolf Link in BotW, a side mode in Super Smash Bros that let you "train" them... and I guess some extra music tracks in FE Three Houses if you had Amiibos of Fire Emblem characters? Most of the time you can trigger Amiibo rewards with any of them. And I don't really think Pokémon having multiple versions can fall under the "games recently getting bad" argument when they've been doing that since the very first one. From the start Pokémon was about socializing, finding someone with the different versions so you could "Catch 'em all!" Is it also a convenient excuse to sell the same game twice, maybe, but it's hardly like you don't get a complete experience (such as it is in recent entries) if you don't buy both... |
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Post by Aunt Alison on Aug 19, 2023 21:37:15 GMT
I do agree Nintendo are better than most
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Post by Jambowayoh on Aug 19, 2023 21:42:46 GMT
That's not Nintendo though. I thought Pokemon was Nintendo. Fair enough Nintendo have part ownership of The Pokémon Company but Niantic developed and published Pokémon Go. That downfall is alllllll on them. |
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robthehermit
Junior Member
Subjectively amusing
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Post by robthehermit on Aug 20, 2023 2:37:08 GMT
Early access is definitely going to be a big deal for MS going forward. They're in business to make money and with gamepass curbing one revenue stream for a lesser one, of course they're going to wring every penny out of the people prepared to pay. Horse Armour anyone?
They've been preselling season passes and dlc for years now with some sort of bonus or incentive. Throwing in the illusion of early access is just another evolution of that. As for preying on people's FOMO, isn't that what all advertising does?
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Post by Danno on Aug 20, 2023 2:44:03 GMT
This is coming on PS5 right?
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Post by baihu1983 on Aug 20, 2023 4:34:20 GMT
In 2059
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ekz
New Member
O_o
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Post by ekz on Aug 20, 2023 4:55:21 GMT
I do agree Nintendo are better than most Nintendo generally don't cram everything with MTX, but they do take the piss in other ways. Ultimately though, I do think gaming is significantly worse these days. CoD4 when it came out had multiple free 'patches' that came out over time - adding maps, etc. For free. This same practice doesn't happen any more, as a whole, across the mainstream gaming space. Granted there is games/publishers that still don't do it, but they're heralded as heroes in the space (remember everyone's hard-on for CDPR prior to the disastrous launch of CP2077?). Edit re: D4 - Diablo 4 is receiving very deserved critisicm regarding how they've monetised cosmetics in a loot-based game currently. Initially they promised the cosmetics to be just further options but they were supposed to be equivalent to what's in the game, however that's simply not true. Not only are unique items... Not unique, cosmetically, but the free offerings are absolute fucking garbage (free NPC outfit for the battle pass!) and as a whole underwhelming compared to the store/paid battle pass. It's a shit show. Does it affect your power level? No. But in a game based off of grinding relentlessly for the best loot, yes it is a boner killer if the best loot in the game doesn't share the best/unique aesthetics and anyone willing to pay the extortionate prices for skins looks significantly better than someone who's invested 400 hours in the season. |
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Frog
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Post by Frog on Aug 20, 2023 7:09:08 GMT
You say that, but every single cod map is free now. They stopped charging for them years ago when they realised it splits the player base. It's pretty much all cosmetics now other than the really shitty dmz bundles which give advantages to players. Unfortunately they sold loads of them so expect it to continue
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Post by muddyfunster on Aug 20, 2023 7:09:51 GMT
I don't have anything to add, just wanted to say that despite totally derailing the thread, I quite enjoyed the read. Thought provoking for a Sunday morning.
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Post by Chopsen on Aug 20, 2023 9:05:42 GMT
There was a an interesting article in the FT the other day about how the games industry makes money these days. 50% of revenue comes from subscriptions and "virtual goods" (micro transactions presumably). It's gone up pretty linearly since 2007. The day of the big expensive game as a one of purchase being the main way of making money is becoming a niche. www.ft.com/content/92d3f96f-78f6-4576-b6ca-520dcac68cb3I don't think it's the end of the world. It just means the industry is growing and changing, becoming more diverse in how it operates. People have a tendency to believe that how things were at one point in their lives is how things should be. |
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Post by Chopsen on Aug 20, 2023 9:10:45 GMT
...and it's not just mobile. EPIC store is full of stuff that's FTP and monetised. Sims 4 is now free, and EA make it back on the DLC. Paradox have a subscription model now for EU4 giving you access to all the DLC.
Does it matter?
/Shrugs.
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Post by Jambowayoh on Aug 20, 2023 9:13:49 GMT
You forgot to say "get a grip".
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Post by Chopsen on Aug 20, 2023 9:15:22 GMT
There is a distinct lack of grip around here generally. Don't shoot the messenger.
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Post by Jambowayoh on Aug 20, 2023 9:16:21 GMT
Heh
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zagibu
Junior Member
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Post by zagibu on Aug 20, 2023 9:56:37 GMT
It's horrible. But if you play a game 5 years after release for the first time, it usually has all the DLC and shit included for a reasonable price.
So I doesn't really affect me too much, but I do find it horrible.
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Post by dangerousdave on Aug 20, 2023 11:03:48 GMT
These things can go both ways. A few years ago I got into Fortnite long enough I unlocked the Battlepass and then had it pay for itself for about half a year. I clocked around a hundred hours I. That game, I enjoyed almost all of my time with it and didn’t pay a penny for it.
I’m not a sucker for skins, so no fear of missing out or anything like that. I probably would struggle with explaining this to a child who’s friends are all hooked though.
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Blue_Mike
Full Member
Meet Hanako At Embers
Posts: 5,377
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Post by Blue_Mike on Aug 20, 2023 13:20:18 GMT
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Post by Jambowayoh on Aug 20, 2023 13:34:03 GMT
I think the combination of Redfall's ramshackle state and Bethesda's known quantity for jank has definitely influenced this. Microsoft can't really afford another big 1st party game shitting the bed.
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Post by darkling on Aug 20, 2023 14:04:43 GMT
Precisely. I've always assumed that by Bethesda's standards the game was "ready" for the original release date November last year.
However, with Microsoft's credibility heavily tied to Starfield, plus the general consensus amongst gamers that it's okay to delay games until they're ready, it will have been a no-brainer to delay release until it's thoroughly tested and fixed.
I also got the impression from the various videos released by Bethesda that general playtesting has been paramount for a while amongst their staff, which is encouraging.
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