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Post by Jambowayoh on Aug 19, 2023 19:28:24 GMT
User Phattso works for Bethesda doesn't he? I KNEW IT!
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Post by Aunt Alison on Aug 19, 2023 19:32:46 GMT
This kind of thing already has had huge negative effects for the vast majority of games. It's all part of the same thing, just a new way they've found to sell something at a premium
You just see all the monetisation as normal now, which is the point. It's fine if you don't give a fuck, but don't act like it's not an issue
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Blue_Mike
Full Member
Meet Hanako At Embers
Posts: 5,376
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Post by Blue_Mike on Aug 19, 2023 19:36:02 GMT
The achievements list has found its way online.
I had a sneaky look, I wouldn't say they are very spoilery at all unless you infer something from one of the names, and they all seem rather easily do-able. There is one for Visiting All Star Systems, which when I initially read it I balked at, because my brain went "They said there are over a thousand planets" so I guess, if we suppose that there are very few systems with as many planets as ours, and assume an average of five per system, that would round out to nearly 200 systems or thereabouts? |
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Post by technoish on Aug 19, 2023 19:40:52 GMT
Didn't the recent halo, and cods for a while have it? I seem to recall it being so for many years...
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Post by Phattso on Aug 19, 2023 19:44:14 GMT
This kind of thing already has had huge negative effects for the vast majority of games. It's all part of the same thing, just a new way they've found to sell something at a premium You just see all the monetisation as normal now, which is the point. It's fine if you don't give a fuck, but don't act like it's not an issue But I don’t see it as an issue. It’s not all games. There are plenty out there that are fucking amazing and have none of it. What are the “huge negative effects” for the “vast majority” of games? First it was DLC. Games were going to be release half complete with the second half sold to us as an add on. Never happened, outside of a handful of cautionary tales. Then it was MTX. Every game is going to be a nickel and dime fest. Outside of some genres, and all of mobile, it never really happened. Now apparently it’s early access that’s going to ruin gaming. I just don’t see it. I mean, I don’t like it. I yearn for simpler times. But I still have a full slate to play and all that stuff isn’t slowing me down one bit. I get that you’re pissed at it. Fair. But is it ruining all of the games? Of course not. Get a grip.  |
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Post by Aunt Alison on Aug 19, 2023 19:48:16 GMT
Do you even play video games?
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Post by Phattso on Aug 19, 2023 19:49:44 GMT
Oh. And to your point. “You see it all as normal now.” No, dude. I see it all as ignorable. You can still go into a shop and buy a fucking game. Or buy it on and online storefront. Or get a key code. My primary method of purchasing my gaming hasn’t changed much from arguably the 80s, and certainly the mid noughties when Steam came along. |
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Post by Aunt Alison on Aug 19, 2023 19:50:11 GMT
Put it another way, Bethesda are charging you extra money by setting an arbitrary second release date. It's costing them absolutely fuck all. Literally you're paying for nothing. You can say it fits in better with your schedule, but if it was released a few days later, you'd just deal with it
It's dumb
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Post by Phattso on Aug 19, 2023 19:50:13 GMT
Do you even play video games? Good one. |
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Post by Phattso on Aug 19, 2023 19:51:48 GMT
Put it another way, Bethesda are charging you extra money by setting an arbirary second release date. It's costing them absolutely fuck all. Literally you're paying for nothing. You can say it fits in better with your schedule, but if it was released a few days later, you'd just deal with it It's dumb I’m not buying it early, just for the record. And yes. It’s dumb. That doesn’t mean it’s ruining gaming. You are having a massive overreaction to a corporation corporatin’. Nothing about the game of Starfield is changed or ruined by Bethesda cashing in on some “rubes”. |
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Post by Aunt Alison on Aug 19, 2023 19:53:33 GMT
Well if you don't think monetisation has completely infested the industry and made tonnes of games poorer for it, I can't see how you do
MTX, DLC, premium, special, ultra special, early access versions, loot boxes, boosters. If you don't think any of those things have had negative effects on mainsteam releases, I don't know what to say
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Post by Jambowayoh on Aug 19, 2023 19:53:39 GMT
Didn't the recent halo, and cods for a while have it? I seem to recall it being so for many years... I don't know about Halo, but the last CoD had early access for the campaign. Which is...odd seeing as how many people don't play the campaign or even finish it any more. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2023 19:55:11 GMT
And what a terrible campaign that was (MWR2).
They should’ve flipped the pricing model and made that shit free and charged for the multiplayer.
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Post by Phattso on Aug 19, 2023 19:55:15 GMT
I’m not saying they haven’t had an impact. I’m saying they haven’t ruined the “vast majority” of games.
Please spell out for me how the early release and MTX have spoiled Starfield? Or Diablo 4? Or Call of Duty which has been doing it for a decade.
There are vast swathes of games and genres out there largely untouched by all of this.
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Post by Aunt Alison on Aug 19, 2023 19:55:44 GMT
Oh. And to your point. “You see it all as normal now.” No, dude. I see it all as ignorable. You can still go into a shop and buy a fucking game. Or buy it on and online storefront. Or get a key code. My primary method of purchasing my gaming hasn’t changed much from arguably the 80s, and certainly the mid noughties when Steam came along. I recommend watching some Jimquisition videos on all this. Your comments are just ignorant, to be honest. It's good that you can just ignore those things, but many people feel pressured to pay extra or feel like they're missing out or getting a lesser experience |
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Post by baihu1983 on Aug 19, 2023 19:56:50 GMT
Halo didn't. It had a beta for the online but I remember it having that BS not playable till 6pm launch.
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Post by Phattso on Aug 19, 2023 19:57:00 GMT
I can concede that. But how does that make the game worse? You can argue the morality, and I’ll buy it. But the games are largely ok?
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Post by Aunt Alison on Aug 19, 2023 19:57:43 GMT
I’m not saying they haven’t had an impact. I’m saying they haven’t ruined the “vast majority” of games. Please spell out for me how the early release and MTX have spoiled Starfield? Or Diablo 4? Or Call of Duty which has been doing it for a decade. There are vast swathes of games and genres out there largely untouched by all of this. Diablo? Really? Diablo Immortal? Call of Duty? These are your examples of games that are unaffected negatively by monetisation? WTF
All the skins and gambling and shit. Real money auction house
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2023 19:57:51 GMT
The multiplayer, pre-release and full release, of Infinite is free too, right?
Halo did it right.
Wait nvm, that’s the same as CoD. But CoD MW2 was ass.
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Post by Jambowayoh on Aug 19, 2023 19:59:12 GMT
The recent Call of Duty, MW2, had pay to win MTX in its game that had a clear impact on the multiplayer. I think Warzone even had a skin that deemed to be super advantageous because how it essentially made you invisible in dark areas.
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Post by Phattso on Aug 19, 2023 19:59:45 GMT
CoD has literally been the same game for 15 years.
And Diablo 4 is a great game and the MTX is entirely tertiary.
Is already said mobile was a cesspit so why bring Immortal into it.
But anyway. The point I’m making is it’s not all games, anyway. And even those infested with it are still usually decent games. So gaming isn’t ruined. IMO.
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Post by Phattso on Aug 19, 2023 20:00:52 GMT
The recent Call of Duty, MW2, had pay to win MTX in its game that had a clear impact on the multiplayer. I think Warzone even had a skin that deemed to be super advantageous because how it essentially made you invisible in dark areas. I only play it for the single player, as any sane human would. |
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Post by Aunt Alison on Aug 19, 2023 20:02:49 GMT
So you're just cherry picking Diablo 4 even though the same series and company has some terrible examples? The game has only just come out, give them time The point seems to be you're picking a few games that suits your point. As I said before, you must not play many I don't even want to argue about it anymore. We obviously just see things differently
edit: saying you only play Call of Duty single player - you clearly only care about how anything affects you, which is probably the issue
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Post by Jambowayoh on Aug 19, 2023 20:03:08 GMT
The recent Call of Duty, MW2, had pay to win MTX in its game that had a clear impact on the multiplayer. I think Warzone even had a skin that deemed to be super advantageous because how it essentially made you invisible in dark areas. I only play it for the single player, as any sane human would. Ha, fair. But obviously you know most people play the online and the MTX there has fucked up the actual gameplay. I don't think gaming in general has been ruined but the AAA market has been severely affected, negatively, by the things that have been mentioned. |
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Post by Phattso on Aug 19, 2023 20:16:20 GMT
So you're just cherry picking Diablo 4 even though the same series and company has some terrible examples? The game has only just come out, give them time The point seems to be you're picking a few games that suits your point. As I said before, you must not play many I don't even want to argue about it anymore. We obviously just see things differently
edit: saying you only play Call of Duty single player - you clearly only care about how anything affects you, which is probably the issue
I wasn't cherry picking - I've entirely conceded that mobile *has* been changed and negatively impacted by it. No argument. So Immortal is a shit show. I picked Diablo 4 because it's another recent example of a game containing ALL of the things you're griping about, from a company with bad form, but in any reasonable reading is not unduly infected by it. I thought it was an excellent game, I had a great time. I think the same is going to be true of Starfield. I play quite a few games. Seemingly unlike yourself, I venture outside of the blockbuster AAA space where the dodgy practices are most prevalent. I concede there are definitely some shitty examples, and some shitty practices. I don't like the idea of impressionable people being fleeced, but the music industry, the movie industry, and also the gaming industry have been doing some flavour of this since year dot. I was being glib about CoD, but in truth no - I don't care if that one particular franchise is fucking people over. See also FIFA. They're two of the worst and they're the cautionary tales for me. But my point, as a direct counter to yours, is that it's not the "vast majority" of games that have these things. And even when they're present, it's rarely as destructive as you're making out. Case in point, almost all of Sony's first party output. AAA blockbuster titles, not fucked up by any early access, DLC, or MTX. Further case in point, almost all of the games on Steam. Maybe it's just that my particular path through gaming doesn't wade through the muck you seem to be knee-deep in and I'm taking too positive a read on the whole industry. Or maybe it's you, the other way around. Either way Baldur's Gate fucking 3 just got release. For fuck's sake. In what universe is that a ruined games industry?  |
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Post by Phattso on Aug 19, 2023 20:18:41 GMT
I only play it for the single player, as any sane human would. Ha, fair. But obviously you know most people play the online and the MTX there has fucked up the actual gameplay. I don't think gaming in general has been ruined but the AAA market has been severely affected, negatively, by the things that have been mentioned. Some genres absolutely, and the FPS is at the front of that. I was being glib with the SP comment. As per my post above, though, I really don't think even the majority of AAA has been "severely affected". I guess I have no evidence to offer on that, so it's just a cow's opinion. My larger point, though, is this: people have been saying that X is "ruining games" for fucking decades. And yet somehow it feels better than ever in many ways. I just can't square the circle. Or maybe I've had too much booze and I'm in a good mood. Tune in tomorrow for my alternate personality decrying the death of creativity in games. |
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Post by Jambowayoh on Aug 19, 2023 20:19:50 GMT
Does the movie and music industry do this kind of stuff to it's customers in the same way that the games industry does?
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Post by Phattso on Aug 19, 2023 20:24:03 GMT
Does the movie and music industry do this kind of stuff to it's customers in the same way that the games industry does? I mean it's all relative, but in movies there's the quintuple dipping (cinema, rental, purchase, stream, broadcast) and then all the various special editions, behind the scenes, etc. etc. My point is people are often spending money they don't need to on stuff that should be optional but might be made to feel essential. I might be over indexing though, as at one point in my life I had about ten BAJILLION VHS and five BAJILLION DVD and LITERALLY TEN HD-DVD and then Blu Ray and then 4K Blu Ray.... of the SAME. FUCKING. FILMS. I've bought them all on Apple now. I sure showed them movie studios. On the music industry I was mainly remembering the FOMO aspect back in the day of a big record dropping - granted not quite the same thing. In an interactive medium I absolutely concede that it's more immediate and impactful - it was the general point I was making. Corporations gonna corporate. |
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Post by Aunt Alison on Aug 19, 2023 20:24:17 GMT
I play hardly any AAA games, haha. I'm just aware of the industry in general and while I can ignore a lot of it, I still see it for what it is and know that it affects others It's not about individual games anyway, it's the experiene of buying and playing them - gaming as a hobby. Monetisation has had a substantial negative impact on it as a whole. Sony games are first party and are an exception. Again, you're cherry picking Have you heard of Ubisoft? They make a lot of quite popular games that they sell 'boosters' for separately and people are often heard to complain about how slow progression is. But you probably don't play Assassin's Creed so it doesn't count
edit: also, I can't bring Diablo Immortal up because it's a mobile game but you can use the film and music industries in your argument
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Post by Phattso on Aug 19, 2023 20:30:38 GMT
I play hardly any AAA games, haha. I'm just aware of the industry in general while I can ignore a lot of it, I still see it for what it is and know that it affects others It's not about individual games anyway, it's the experiene of buying and playing them - gaming as a hobby. Monetisation has had a substantial negative impact on it as a whole. Sony games are first party and are an exception. Again, you're cherry picking Have you heard of Ubisoft? They make a lot of quite popular games that they sell 'boosters' for separately and people are often heard to complain about how slow progression is. But you probably don't play Assassin's Creed so it doesn't count There's a difference between something being grubby and something ruining games. I do have the most recent Ass Creed actually. At no point did it beat me around the head with the boosters, and actually at no point in the game did I need them (I did read this wasn't always true of the previous game). But those games are ridiculously content rich (you can argue that much of it is shit) so I'm not sure the presence of DLC/MTX is a smoking gun. I paid £22 for AC: Valhalla in Tesco. I've played it, according to my XBOX, for 135 hours. I don't think picking pretty much the major slate of Playstation games is "cherry picking" btw, given that it's why most people own a Playstation. I notice you didn't accuse me of cherry picking ALL OF STEAM. In terms of impact to peoples... I was really really glad to see various governments cracking down on shit like loot boxes. Long may that continue. The rest - IMHO - hasn't ruined gaming. And I haven't seen much evidence of it ruining lives either. Perspective, innit. I'm not dead inside, I just don't get the "GAMING IS *RUINED*" angle when for me it's patently not. Some of gaming is a temporary shit show. It'll level out and they'll move on to the next morally bankrupt process of extracting cash from rubes. |
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