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Post by Saul1138 on Mar 16, 2022 10:37:59 GMT
I've just remembered how unconvincing Samuel L Jackson is as an elite level Jedi master, flailing his arms around like he's trying to find himself on psychedelics. And the ease with which 99% of the galaxy's Jedis were slaughtered. I guess they weren't very skilled after all. As Qui Gon told Anakin, the idea that Jedi couldnโt be defeated was a lie. |
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Lukus
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Post by Lukus on Mar 16, 2022 11:20:07 GMT
Oh well in that case, incredible writing.
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Post by britesparc on Mar 16, 2022 11:25:27 GMT
I think the thing with Star Wars is it's all about how it makes you feel. For a lot of people, the shonky plotting and rigid staging of the prequels gets in the way of the Star Wars-ness. For me, it doesn't; I can absolutely critique plot holes, acting choices, framing, etc, but all of that's secondary. It just feels like Star Wars and I love it. Plus, as I've said, I find that whole era fascinating, and even if it's not very well articulated by conventional standards the central theme of creeping facism and the hubris of heroes is just brilliant.
YMMV.
It's also why I have to stop myself criticising the sequels too much. Whilst they're better-made films than the prequels (yes, even Rise) they just don't have that Star Wars-y feeling for me. Too much ancilliary stuff gets in the way. But for other people, I'm sure that's not the case, and they can overlook how TFA is basically just a greatest hits nostalgia-fest, how TLJ is kinda weirdly structured and probably too long, and how "somehow Palpatine returned" (sigh). That'll slide right off them and the films will feel suitably Star Wars.
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Buu
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Post by Buu on Mar 16, 2022 11:31:30 GMT
I recently watched all the films in order as I'm far from a Star Wars mega-fan. I didn't really mind the first 3 but I did hate the first one mostly down to Jar-Jar. I thought he was hilarious when I saw him as a kid but as an adult he really is a prick of the highest order.
Quite enjoyed them just to see Palpatine's meddling. Definitely enjoyed the first 3 more than the last 3. Rogue One is still the best film out of all of them by far though
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2022 11:52:09 GMT
The bare minimum entry level for me enjoying a film is that its at least competently made, something that none of the prequels are remotely close to for me. Every scene looks like shit, every line of dialogue is stilted and badly written, every character completely bereft of personality.
And also it feels nothing at all like Star Wars to me. Star Wars is famous for giving scifi a lived in, dirty "real" feeling. The prequels are literally the fakest looking and feeling films I can think of.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2022 11:52:41 GMT
Inspired by my watch through of them all I bought this vehicle cross-sections book last week: youtu.be/B-mi_TD-iCUIt's pretty nice, albeit the Abrams era cutaways are not as well done. Doesn't cover the TV show stuff either in this edition which is a shame as I was hoping for Mando's ship and of course Space Vespas. The Space Vespas were a brilliant commentary on disenfranchised youth in a brutal, uncaring society so their loss is felt keenly. |
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Mar 16, 2022 11:55:38 GMT
I rewatched Solo recently and with a few tweaks it could have been a decent movie. If Solo had just been some guy called Fartpipe Banderchus and had just been a heist movie set in the Star Wars universe, it could have been really good.
Anchoring absolutely everything to the first three movies is just a gigantic waste of potential.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2022 12:06:41 GMT
Solo is probably my least favourite of the new ones other than the last one. It leaned far to much into "hey remember this bit"
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Mar 16, 2022 12:43:52 GMT
OMG THE COAT! OMG THE DICE! OMG CHEWIE! OMG HIS GUN! His entire persona for the next 50 years developed over the space of a weekend. Its just stupid.
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Post by Saul1138 on Mar 16, 2022 13:29:39 GMT
OMG THE COAT! OMG THE DICE! OMG CHEWIE! OMG HIS GUN! His entire persona for the next 50 years developed over the space of a weekend. Its just stupid. Considering, if the rumours were true, it was supposed to springboard a loose trilogy, young Boba Fett and Maul were going to be the focus of the other two films, there was a lot of room to give us parts of Hanโs story in the other two films. Might have been Kenobi not Maul, but it could easily have had several elements in a Fett film. Saying that, if they consider a Disney+ young Solo series, that continues with things we know nothing about, I wouldnโt mind that. I would love Solo on a desert planet, showing holo vids of Kamino to the locals, but they turn on him when he shows them a film about someoneโs head that is differently shaped to an animated version of that character. |
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Lukus
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Post by Lukus on Mar 16, 2022 13:30:06 GMT
It did feel a bit like the entire thing had been written to explain what a parsec was in relation to a Kessel Run. I quite enjoyed it though.
The more I think about the sequel trilogy, the more I dislike it as a whole. I was a bit of an apologist for those films at the time, but they're a mess. They add nothing good and actively take away from what came before. Having said that, I like TFA but that's because it's just a harmless tribute. The other two bearing fuck all relation to each other and revealing that there was no proper planning of the trilogy is just so incredibly shit.
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Post by Bill in the rain on Mar 16, 2022 13:41:08 GMT
Isn't a parsec technically a measure of distance? /nerd
TFA isn't really a tribute, it's more of a dissection and reversal of the tropes. Though it does manage to quite well mirror Empire, so it is clearly done with love.
It's probably the KotOR2 of SW movies.
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Post by britesparc on Mar 16, 2022 13:45:58 GMT
I've said this before, maybe on this very website, but Solo would have worked as a TV series. First season is all about him escaping Corellia and meeting Chewie, maybe ending with the train heist; then second season is him meeting Lando and we see the Falcon; third season could be the Kessel Run and him winning the Falcon; etc...
Spreading all these events over 5-10 years makes Han seem like a smart cookie, rather than it all happening in a weekend and making him look like he fluked it.
Ironically, it's the fact that Solo failed (against expectations) that led to Disney pivoting from SW movies to SW TV shows. So in a way the perfect medium for the story only came about because the story had already failed... if that makes sense!
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Post by snackplissken on Mar 16, 2022 14:08:10 GMT
The bare minimum entry level for me enjoying a film is that its at least competently made, something that none of the prequels are remotely close to for me. Every scene looks like shit, every line of dialogue is stilted and badly written, every character completely bereft of personality. And also it feels nothing at all like Star Wars to me. Star Wars is famous for giving scifi a lived in, dirty "real" feeling. The prequels are literally the fakest looking and feeling films I can think of. Ahem |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2022 14:23:24 GMT
The third sequel being a car crash doesn't somehow make the prequels any less terrible.
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dogbot
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Post by dogbot on Mar 16, 2022 14:25:46 GMT
If the internet has taught me one thing, it's that Star Wars is basically shit. All of it.
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Snake
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Post by Snake on Mar 16, 2022 14:35:30 GMT
Apart from some glaring issues (the casino planet, artillery in space, the bad guys not overtaking the rebels) I thought the story of TLJ was at least going in a better direction. New ground and facing the issues that the original trilogy raised WRT a smallish rebel group vs the imperial armies...
And the spec script for Ep 9 (don't remember the writer at the moment) continuing on that story was a lot better than what got made...
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Post by ๐ on Mar 16, 2022 14:38:44 GMT
If the internet has taught me one thing, it's that Star Wars is basically shit. All of it. I mean, this is pretty much it. I enjoy watching them (even the prequels) but in the same way I sometimes enjoy watching the Fast and Furious films. Iโm not in it for the Shakespearean plot or the high brow acting, Iโm there for pew pew lasers and not having to put an ounce of real concentration into it for a few hours. Who gives a fuck about whether lasers can be stopped by the force or why gravity exists in deep space. And I also enjoy ramping up the bass when they detonate the seismic charges in AotC ZZBBWAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRM |
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Lukus
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Post by Lukus on Mar 16, 2022 14:51:00 GMT
If the internet has taught me one thing, it's that Star Wars is basically shit. All of it. I mean, this is pretty much it. I enjoy watching them (even the prequels) but in the same way I sometimes enjoy watching the Fast and Furious films. Iโm not in it for the Shakespearean plot or the high brow acting, Iโm there for pew pew lasers and not having to put an ounce of real concentration into it for a few hours. Who gives a fuck about whether lasers can be stopped by the force or why gravity exists in deep space. And I also enjoy ramping up the bass when they detonate the seismic charges in AotC ZZBBWAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRM I guess the obvious retort to that analogy would be, imagine if the first three Fast and Furious films were incredible, original, engaging, had amazingly ground breaking special effects that captured the imagination of a massive group of people, inspired hundreds of other films, directors and creatives and were cherished as genuinely important movies on multiple levels, culturally and historically. Then imagine the next 6 were all just a bit shit and failed to replicate the special thing inherent in the first three. My point is, it's not really apples for apples. Turn your brain off films are all well and good, but it's all about expectations, legacy and standards. No one expects Fast and Furious to be good whereas Star Wars is held to account in a different way. |
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Post by ๐ on Mar 16, 2022 14:55:23 GMT
All those points have little to do with how I, an individual consumer, engage with the film though.
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Post by ๐ on Mar 16, 2022 14:59:16 GMT
Also - I think recapturing zeitgeist legacy is always doomed to fail anyway. I canโt think of a single example of where a treasured series was revived/continued and it didnโt utterly fail to live up to expectations.
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dogbot
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Post by dogbot on Mar 16, 2022 14:59:47 GMT
If the internet has taught me one thing, it's that Star Wars is basically shit. All of it. I mean, this is pretty much it. I enjoy watching them (even the prequels) but in the same way I sometimes enjoy watching the Fast and Furious films. Iโm not in it for the Shakespearean plot or the high brow acting, Iโm there for pew pew lasers and not having to put an ounce of real concentration into it for a few hours. Who gives a fuck about whether lasers can be stopped by the force or why gravity exists in deep space. And I also enjoy ramping up the bass when they detonate the seismic charges in AotC ZZBBWAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRM One of THE best noises in cinema history.  |
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dogbot
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Post by dogbot on Mar 16, 2022 15:00:45 GMT
Also - I think recapturing zeitgeist legacy is always doomed to fail anyway. I canโt think of a single example of where a treasured series was revived/continued and it didnโt utterly fail to live up to expectations. Agreed. Although, one suspects that this is often partly (at least) to do with the expectations of the fanbase. These are, as we all know, always entirely realistic and reasonable, after all. |
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Lukus
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Post by Lukus on Mar 16, 2022 15:04:39 GMT
All those points have little to do with how I, an individual consumer, engage with the film though. I agree. I wish I was more like that in a way, standards begone. But it's definitely why a lot of people can't enjoy the sprequels and debate it endlessly online. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2022 15:05:13 GMT
The Internet giving fans a voice directly to the people that make the films doesn't help at all.
Fans are cunts.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2022 15:10:41 GMT
Can I just point out again that the prequels are fucking shit.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Mar 16, 2022 15:12:15 GMT
Also - I think recapturing zeitgeist legacy is always doomed to fail anyway. I canโt think of a single example of where a treasured series was revived/continued and it didnโt utterly fail to live up to expectations. Young Indiana Jones |
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Lukus
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Post by Lukus on Mar 16, 2022 15:29:30 GMT
Ash Vs Evil Dead.
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Post by Vandelay on Mar 16, 2022 15:45:19 GMT
Apart from some glaring issues (the casino planet, artillery in space, the bad guys not overtaking the rebels) I thought the story of TLJ was at least going in a better direction. New ground and facing the issues that the original trilogy raised WRT a smallish rebel group vs the imperial armies... And the spec script for Ep 9 (don't remember the writer at the moment) continuing on that story was a lot better than what got made... TLJ is hands down the best Star Wars film since Empire. Yeah, that's right Internet, I said it. That probably doesn't say much, but it is true. Rogue One held that crown just before it too. It was looking like they were on a good roll there, until angry people got angry and Disney panicked, fired Lord and Miller from Solo and then got Abrams back for Rise. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2022 15:50:21 GMT
I agree with whoever said Rogue One was the best Star Wars film of all time. That and The Mandalorian are probably the best Star Wars has ever been. I overall agree with gremmi's thoughts. None of the trilogies are actually great, but it's all about the feel they induce. It's the nostalgia, it's the pew pew, it's the characters. But Rogue One just felt like it matured the franchise a bit, as much as a franchise about space samurai wizards and plastic nazis can get anyway.
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