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Post by Saul1138 on Jun 16, 2022 6:26:45 GMT
Unreal it is kind of a Stockholm Syndrome kind of thing. In the cartoons, comics and Fallen Order game, it is explained that the Inquisitors are tortured and broken into servitude to Palpatine and Vader. The exception being the Grand Inquisitor, who was a full on Jedi, but lost faith in the order during the Clone Wars.
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Post by Reviewer on Jun 16, 2022 6:32:24 GMT
Also, in just about every action film ever you know the good guys will win and (barring a tiny number of exceptions) the good guys will be ok. That’s not where the story or tension comes from.
I do want them to tell more stories that aren’t linked to the mainline films soon, this one seems ok and some of the films they did were ok but they need to use the wider universe and opportunities.
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Post by damagedinc on Jun 16, 2022 6:41:39 GMT
Shes just pure rage isn't she, lost without any guidance. Being used by vader to get close to kenobi. Her previous actions kind of all make sense now and the empire/vader knew all along what she was up to. I Still think this would have made a brilliant 3 parter or even just a film. Making it into a series means its lost the usual movie finesse (those ships I'm looking at you) and heavy editing that the first 4 episodes needed.
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Post by Reviewer on Jun 16, 2022 7:02:19 GMT
I think that of most tv series these days. Just about all of them should have the same amount of story but in half the number of episodes, certainly of this sort of show (action-drama).
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Jun 16, 2022 7:11:23 GMT
I think, on reflection, my real problem with it is that the currently the plot is entirely driven forward by leia who I would have been tempted to force choke within 30 seconds of meeting.
And, obviously, it’s prequel.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Jun 16, 2022 7:16:55 GMT
Didn’t mean to achshually the thread there btw, just thought it was interesting. As you were. While I do disagree with your point, it is kind of on theme. I think going back and editing a few things to iron out continuity snarls might just be the first instance of someone doing a George Lucas.
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Post by Nemesis on Jun 16, 2022 7:49:12 GMT
I think, on reflection, my real problem with it is that the currently the plot is entirely driven forward by leia who I would have been tempted to force choke within 30 seconds of meeting. And, obviously, it’s prequel. Easy there Rolf!
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Jun 16, 2022 8:09:01 GMT
I know. I resent it for making me hate a 10 year old.
It also makes me wonder if, in the 8 million times ive seen the OT and the two times Ive seen the ST, there is something I have missed that they saw to make her act that way as a child. I know they need to push the plot forward and her running away all the time and generally being stupid is a really easy way to do it but it just feels so out of character.
I know Leia is tough and all that but Im not sure 'dumb as a hammer' is the starting place for that.
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Post by simple on Jun 16, 2022 8:27:16 GMT
I Still think this would have made a brilliant 3 parter or even just a film. Making it into a series means its lost the usual movie finesse (those ships I'm looking at you) and heavy editing that the first 4 episodes needed. Regardless of the quality of the finished production I think this is broadly true of almost every D+ original (as opposes to the Hulu and Star originals that air on D+ in the UK) Obi Wan, Hawkeye, and Moonknight in particular all feel like they were movie pitches that have been stretched to series length without necessarily having the padded and additional content to fully justify their 5+ hour run times. Not that they aren’y entertaining they just could’ve been a better fit done differently.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Jun 16, 2022 8:29:31 GMT
Weirdly, I think Loki bucked the trend by maintaining a fairly healthy head of steam right up to the end where it took a dump into its own mouth.
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Post by britesparc on Jun 16, 2022 9:22:04 GMT
As someone who's enjoyed this show from the start, I do agree that it falls into the "not quite enough plot to justify a TV series" camp that a HUGE amount of streaming shows also fall into. The whole idea of making a "six hour movie" or whatever is really annoying. Like, you need more than "this ep they're on this planet"; each episode needs a proper arc. Mando did it! Mando was really good at it!
With this show, I felt that the first two episodes were pretty great, but III and IV dragged. This ep was an improvement as it felt it earned its place. In a way, I sorta think the first five eps could have been told in three. But like I say, I'm really enjoying it, and unlike Bongo my favourite character is actually Little Leia, who is awesome and deserves her own show.
Incidentally, I see a lot of people saying Moon Knight could have been a movie, but I disagree on that one. A couple of the episodes dragged a bit, but I think you needed the luxury of a TV runtime to have the trippy afterlife/flashback episodes. Truncating those for the cinema would have diminished their impact.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Jun 16, 2022 9:36:33 GMT
I think Moon Knight suffered because origin stories are inherently boring. I think a Batman-esque 'for me it was a tuesday' type movie would have been cool but I dont think anyone really gives a fuck about his mother.
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Post by Reviewer on Jun 16, 2022 9:37:22 GMT
They’re all several episodes of a second act. That would be ok if they still had something approaching 3 acts within each episode, instead they always feel like they’re building up to something and it takes too long to get there.
They should write for twice as many episodes as they have of these things then edit the script down to that and then refine it.
That said, episode 5 of this is still very good, they could have cut the previous 4 into 2 or 3 though depending on length.
It’s not just D+ either, Foundation did the same thing and most other shows that aren’t amongst the best of the year.
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Post by britesparc on Jun 16, 2022 9:44:46 GMT
My biggest issue with the series, really, is that I wanted it to be John Wick in space. Miserable old bastard is forced out of retirement and expertly murders everyone in awesome fashion.
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Post by Nemesis on Jun 16, 2022 9:51:13 GMT
Well it's getting there. He's just had 10 years off and needs longer to warm up.
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Post by Nemesis on Jun 16, 2022 9:51:25 GMT
/getting old/
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Post by britesparc on Jun 16, 2022 10:10:32 GMT
Honestly, the best bit for me was when he did that one little saber-twirl after killing some stormtroopers in Ep4.
I mean, isn't that all we wanted? Ewan twirling his lightsaber in a sexy fashion.
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Post by simple on Jun 16, 2022 10:25:52 GMT
Anyone else spend their time wondering whether Anakin had been poorly deaged or is just a youngish looking 45 year old ?
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dogbot
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Post by dogbot on Jun 16, 2022 10:28:39 GMT
Anyone else spend their time wondering whether Anakin had been poorly deaged or is just a youngish looking 45 year old ? Yes. It was pretty light touch, the de-aging. I'm still shocked by how little McGregor has aged. Christensen has caught up and passed him! He's ten years younger, but he looks ten years older. That was a good scene, though.
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Post by quadfather on Jun 16, 2022 10:40:12 GMT
I'm watching this on Disney via ps4 on headphones. Anyone else getting very slight audio glitching every 10 seconds or so? It's quite off-putting after a while
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Post by GigaChad Sigma. on Jun 16, 2022 10:52:12 GMT
Latest episode was better but the inconsistencies are still there, lasergate is one I can't get over.
As mentioned the Third Sisters plan is a bit shonky, the scale was awful in the escaping transport scene and the Empire's constant buffoonery in trying to capture anyone is difficult to overlook.
I mean there's a Star Destroyer in orbit. Have half a dozen Tie Fighters hovering over the base. Open doors and boom job done.
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Post by simple on Jun 16, 2022 11:25:38 GMT
SW related - Is Fallen Order worth picking up?
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Post by simple on Jun 16, 2022 11:27:55 GMT
This is the most nitpicky thing but - I like The Third Sister as a name, its mysterious and has the air of a Dark Souls boss about it, but the fact that everyone keeps saying it all the time does chip away at that mystique a bit
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Post by starchildhypocrethes on Jun 16, 2022 11:28:00 GMT
Yeah, it’s pretty good.
It kept me invested enough to finish it, which is more than I can say for a lot of games. Plus lightsabers.
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Post by Whizzo on Jun 16, 2022 12:05:36 GMT
I think Kenobi is highlighting a weakness in using characters we already know the fates of, it dramatically limits what you can do with them as you know they can't be harmed in any significant way where's the threat? It also makes other characters less important because you know they're probably going to die or not play a huge role as you've never seen them before.
This will also apply to Andor, we know the hero dies on Scarif, he's as safe as houses in the show.
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Post by britesparc on Jun 16, 2022 13:02:53 GMT
SW related - Is Fallen Order worth picking up? Yes, it's pretty good. Personally I thought the levels were too big - or rather, they were just boring to traverse, because there's a lot of backtracking and no real fast travel system. But the combat and the story and decent, even if it just made me want a proper Jedi Knight game again. Plus - and this is me more than the game - I get really, really angry if I have to replay a section. If I die in a game, I'm furious unless I respawn at almost the exact moment of death. So having to do a ton of platforming shit that I didn't like the first time, and make my way through three different stormtrooper encounters, just to get up to the one that killed me, is absolutely not my idea of fun. As such, I cranked the difficulty right down to story mode, just because I immediately got bored fighting the same person more than once.
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Post by Reviewer on Jun 16, 2022 13:16:38 GMT
I think Kenobi is highlighting a weakness in using characters we already know the fates of, it dramatically limits what you can do with them as you know they can't be harmed in any significant way where's the threat? It also makes other characters less important because you know they're probably going to die or not play a huge role as you've never seen them before. This will also apply to Andor, we know the hero dies on Scarif, he's as safe as houses in the show. As I said before, this applies to the likes of Bond films, MI films, Die Hard etc. and people also rewatch them multiple times. Knowing what ultimately happens to the characters isn’t the problem, the journey needs to be good enough.
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Post by Bill in the rain on Jun 16, 2022 13:58:36 GMT
I think that of most tv series these days. Just about all of them should have the same amount of story but in half the number of episodes, certainly of this sort of show (action-drama). But this was what people were saying about 12 episode seasons on Netflix (which were already about half of a regular tv show 22ish episode season). And about 10 episode seasons. And about 8 episode seasons. Now we seem to be down to about 6 episode seasons and people still want to lose the middle half.
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dogbot
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Post by dogbot on Jun 16, 2022 14:10:45 GMT
SW related - Is Fallen Order worth picking up? Yes, it's pretty good. Personally I thought the levels were too big - or rather, they were just boring to traverse, because there's a lot of backtracking and no real fast travel system. But the combat and the story and decent, even if it just made me want a proper Jedi Knight game again. Plus - and this is me more than the game - I get really, really angry if I have to replay a section. If I die in a game, I'm furious unless I respawn at almost the exact moment of death. So having to do a ton of platforming shit that I didn't like the first time, and make my way through three different stormtrooper encounters, just to get up to the one that killed me, is absolutely not my idea of fun. As such, I cranked the difficulty right down to story mode, just because I immediately got bored fighting the same person more than once. Oh god, the sliding then jumping bits got right on my fucking tits.
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Post by simple on Jun 16, 2022 14:23:34 GMT
I think that of most tv series these days. Just about all of them should have the same amount of story but in half the number of episodes, certainly of this sort of show (action-drama). But this was what people were saying about 12 episode seasons on Netflix (which were already about half of a regular tv show 22ish episode season). And about 10 episode seasons. And about 8 episode seasons. Now we seem to be down to about 6 episode seasons and people still want to lose the middle half. I think the difference between a 22 episode network tv drama and a 12 parter on netflix or 6 on D+ is that the network shows tend to have more down time where characters just interact outside of the outarching narrative, and they have more standalone episodes, so even when there is an ongoing plot not every scene of every episode is about which seems to be the case on a lot of streaming shows. So they end up being too long for their plot despite being shorter more direct seasons. Or they’re six hour movies with a two hour movie’s worth of content. I’d say Daredevil and Punisher both got the balance right, they both feel more like network tv products than shows suffering from streaming bloat or stretch. I think it might be a product of not being as subject to the traditional restrictions of tv commissioning and convention. Sometimes a ruthless editor from outside the production is necessary. Disney plus is good for spotting this because you usually can tell which the direct to streaming and which the tv ones are even though they’re all on D+ here.
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